Will Arizona's Immigration Law Work?

By Froma Harrop
Dec 27, 2007


What would happen if the United States seriously enforced the ban on hiring undocumented workers? We may find out starting Jan. 1, when Arizona promises to do it locally. The Arizona law is tough. Companies that knowingly employ illegal workers will have their business licenses suspended for a first offense and permanently revoked for the second.
The law clearly sees the workplace -- not the state's 376-mile border with Mexico -- as the main front in curbing illegal immigration. As a result, it could very well succeed.

Supporters of open borders predict economic chaos as Arizona companies lose access to cheap labor. Will dishes go unwashed and lawns unmowed? We shall see.

Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano reluctantly signed the law but vows to enforce it. A moderate Democrat, she maintains a close relationship with the governor of Sonora, the Mexican state to her south. She was also the first American governor to ask for National Guard reinforcements along the border.

Immigration happens to be Washington's responsibility. Federal law already forbids employers to hire undocumented workers. Until very recently, the Bush administration virtually ignored the ban. Whenever anger at this dereliction grew politically problematic, Bush would stage some new military show at the border.

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272617914.shtml

What will happen to persons who hire "illegals"?

Also, I read somewhere (don't remember where) that there are fewer people entering the U.S. from the border with Mexico. If this is true, wouldn't it mess with the numbers a bit? Making it seem as if the policy is working?

Casual labor doesn't fall under that definition. Without looking at the statute, it probably applies to licensed businesses employing some minimum number of employees. Most of such laws are written that way, including the FLSA.

The mechanism that alerts an employer of a probable illegal alien is the Social Security "warn letter" that comes when the FICA contributions are made under an account for which the Full Name, BIrth Date, and Social Security Account Number don't match the SSA's records. I've NEVER heard of anyone getting one of those for someone paid to mow their lawn.

:eyes:

...make everyone a subcontractor?

:shrug:

There are already strict laws on that and several agencies would notice if businesses suddenly stopped paying workman's comp and unemployment.

If companies sub contract their employees, then the employees hire the "illegals" it will take a while to sift through all the paper work, especially if there is wads of cash blocking the auditor's view...

when the premiums are due to various state agencies and they don't show up. They will wonder why they stopped paying their unemployment and workman's comp premiums and they WILL go visit the businesses personally. You can't have a bunch of people on the payroll one quarter, and then go completely sub-contract the next. Won't fly for one minute.

...I wouldn't put it past them.

Remember there used to be a law that said corporations couldn't just move their headquarters overseas to avoid paying taxes, then a minor change in one elected office changed all that...oh, okay, not a very good comparison, since it was the president (Bush) reversing a Clinton-era law.

And, then there was a law about arsenic in water and...

I don't see that happening. I don't even think the nutty libertarians would go for that. That's what would have to happen for them to get away with classifying everybody as a subcontractor.

which is conveniently obscured by the migrant worker debate...

Hired = payroll, withholding, social security (employee and employer share), etc.

The companies can keep that money. No need to send it in the the feds.

Camelback Inn, Mountain Shadows, The Phoenician, The Princess, and most of the rest of the 5 star resorts have been busted repeatedly for this crap. January is right in the middle of the "high season" and seeing a few of these bastards shut down for refusing to pay the decent wages their employees deserve, will bring joy to my heart.

Losing even 1 month of the short season will hurt badly. Not to mention the construction industry that has worked so hard to deny a decent living to the people that make their plundering possible.

Maybe we'll get to prove that McCain was full of shit when he claimed that "Americans wouldn't pick lettuce for $50 an hour".
:evilgrin:

The new law will definately hurt the resort industry.

I'm a teacher in a large urban district in Phoenix and suspect that several of my student's parents are illegal. I wonder how many will return after our winter break.

I feel for the people, but I truly believe that it will be better for both Mexico and US workers in a short while.

But Marriot didn't want to renovate it so it was closed over 3 years ago. There's a new plan to reconstruct the resort which hasn't yet been approved by the P.V. city council.

I don't know where your info. is coming from, but none of the resorts that you named have been "busted repeatedly" for hiring illegal immigrants.

And since you mentioned it, there are no Five-Star Award hotels in Arizona.

They've all lost their 5 star, gold key status? I haven't been around that industry for a long time, but those were perennial recipients.

ETA: All of these resorts have been through the ritual of the green vans pulling up in front while the whole staff runs out the back, happens all the time.

States cannot make immigration laws.

Immigration laws are unenforceable. They should be liberalized to the point where they cab be enforced. Human migration is a fact of life. Trying to get around it with stupid laws does not work. It does not work. This is reality, for a reality based community.

There's speculation in local media (I'm a Phoenician) that it will not.

They are regulating citizen-owned businesses within their state.
I don't think there's any "separation of powers" argument that
can be made against that.

Should I check my newspaper boy's documentation and call the police on him? Should I demand that all "Mexican-appearing" people show their documents to me? Am I responsible for lapsed documents of all of my employees a week from now, a month from now, a year from now? Or just the brown people? Should I track all of my employees' parking tickets, as well, and assist law enforcement on that? If an employee's documentation is in process, and they are doing everything legal, but Immigration fails to act on schedule ot otherwise drops the ball, should the authorities be immediately called and the person be detained? How will I know that their documentation has lapsed or has been lost or mis-filed in some bureaucrat's office? Lie detectors for all employees every day?

Do I have a responsibility to the minor children of my employees when their parents are illegally arrested and placed in indefinite detention and held out of communication? Is a person who doesn't bring their paperwork to the job everyday to be considered in violation and therefore rounded up?

Should American citizens who look "Mexican" be viewed with suspicion? What about white people? Are they all to be considered "legal" or should we check all of them, as well?

Why don't we just deputize everyone, and check everyone? That is what the Gestapo did. That way, only those in authority will be committing crimes.

How much should we pry into the backgrounds of employees, how much should we spy on them, how much should we monitor them, how much time should we spend acting as de facto agents of law enforcement and policing our workers?

Or is it supposed to be "obvious" who is and who is not a criminal and should therefore be turned over to the feds? Is it better to be safe than sorry - round them all up and sort them out later?

Maybe it is the safest course to just be sure that I only hire white people. Then I won't be arrested or fined.

:eyes:

Thanks for all of the excellent posts over the years. I have been a huge fan and have often quoted you.

Nobody is referring to other immigrants from other ethnic backgrounds every discussion on immigration points to the Mexicans or look a like people.
I should expect in the near future separate restrooms for whites and others.

Would a simple urine test detect who is an "alien" and who is human, or would a blood test be required?

Perhaps we could implant transponders in all the people, linked to law enforcement surveillance agents, and merely scan employees as they come in to work to see who has and who has not been given permission by the authorities to exist? Official non-humans - as verified by these objective means - could then be sorted out quickly and efficiently so they could be denied due process, the presumption of innocence, the right to a speedy trial and to face their accusers, habeas corpus, protection from illegal search and and unwarranted seizure, protection from self-incrimination, the right to counsel and all of those other silly things that are in the way of cleansing and purifying society of unwanted elements.

This will all just be directed at "Mexicans," right? I mean, the rest of us have nothing to fear, right? If we are short, and get a tan while on vacation do we need to worry? Should we be careful not to learn or speak Spanish?

That book reflects what many idealistic ethnocentric would like to have as their society living in a Bubble.

:shrug:

"A quick glance at the masons who work for Rhino Masonry in Mesa reveals an interesting quirk about the company’s work force — nearly every block layer on the payroll is Hispanic.

Business owner Robert Ahlers said he’s comfortable with his company’s demographics. It simply reflects those of the region’s construction industry in general, he said.

However, he has no idea what impact the state’s stringent new employer sanctions law will have on his company next month.

“I don’t know if come Jan. 1, when this goes into effect, I’m going to wake up on a Monday morning and half the people working for me are going to be gone,” Ahlers said."

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/105083

Perhaps now it will once again be a decent job. People will have to deal with having to pay more for work and not every middle class family will be able to afford landscapers to come mow the lawn.

Stop the border crossings, find a way to legalize illegals here, especially those with family here and a clean record and then fine the crap out of the employers of illegal workers. In that order.

I have heard of many in AZ leaving to go to NM where the it's easier for illegal Mexican workers to find a job. I do hope that the law results in higher salaries for workers in AZ.

In the article I posted, the masonry business owner says that he currently pays $15-$25. an hour, plus benefits. I personally know college graduates who are working for less than that, w/o benefits. Is that salary commensurate with similar jobs in other states? :shrug:

:shrug:

craftsmen that let him live in his McMansion on the hill. If he does wake up Tuesday morning to find that, "half the people working for me are going to be gone", he might just have to increase the wage he pays to fill the vacancies.

Construction trades wages have dropped 25% - 40% in AZ, not even counting inflation, over the last 20 years, as the result of illegal immigrants taking the jobs. The resort industry has seen similar results, wages and gratuities have been slashed and benefits eliminated. Meanwhile profits have soared.

The only studies I've seen say undocumented workers may account for a 4-5% reduction in average wages for non-high school graduate workers.

Are you telling me you could make $20 an hour doing construction in 1987, but only $12 to $15 now?

The only similar wage reduction I know of is among meat packers. Back in the '70s, I made $12 an hour at IBP. Now, the local turkey plant pays $10. But that's because they busted the unions, not because of Mexicans. And the scabs they used were white.

roofers, etc., and this only one industry that I happen to be familiar with. Another example that is not so related to immigration, but the ongoing corporate war on America, is the IT industry. Wages have dropped 50% or more in the last 10 years.

All make fewer $p/hr now than they did 20 - 23 years ago. Once again, this is not about race, it is about employers.

Government regulations do. Minimum wage and union regulations are impose by the government.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_alph.htm

Why would you believe this government report when you know that they are skewed and manipulated in order to further their agenda?

We are the government, we just don't want to be bothered to ensure that the job is being done.

I've lived here over 30 years and the immigrant "problem" is no worse now than it was when I grew up in a farming community 20-30 years ago.

What hurts Arizona wages is the arcane and patently unfair Right to Be Screwed status--but no one ever wants to talk about that (I never get tired of it, though...)

It will be interesting to see what happens.