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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:05 AM
Original message
EXCELLENT UPDATE on situation in Pakistan
Juan Cole again, many links within his report, so follow this link:

http://www.juancole.com/2007/12/mobs-rampage-through-pakistani-cities.html

Mobs Rampage through Pakistani Cities;
Cars, Banks, Gas Stations Torched
Sharif's Party will Boycott Elections


My column, "With Bhutto gone, does Bush have a Plan B?" is online at Salon.com. Excerpt:

' Pakistan's future is now murky, and to the extent that this nation of 160 million buttresses the eastern flank of American security in the greater Middle East, its fate is profoundly intertwined with America's own. The money for the Sept. 11 attacks was wired to Florida from banks in Pakistan, and al-Qaida used the country for transit to Afghanistan. Instability in Pakistan may well spill over into Afghanistan, as well, endangering the some 26,000 U.S. troops and a similar number of NATO troops in that country. And it is not as if Afghanistan were stable to begin with. If Pakistani politics finds its footing, if a successor to Benazir Bhutto is elected in short order by the PPP and the party can remain united, and if elections are held soon, the crisis could pass. If there is substantial and ongoing turmoil, however, Muslim radicals will certainly take advantage of it.

In order to get through this crisis, Bush must insist that the Pakistani Supreme Court, summarily dismissed and placed under house arrest by Musharraf, be reinstated. The PPP must be allowed to elect a successor to Ms. Bhutto without the interference of the military. Early elections must be held, and the country must return to civilian rule. Pakistan's population is, contrary to the impression of many pundits in the United States, mostly moderate and uninterested in the Taliban form of Islam. But if the United States and "democracy" become associated in their minds with military dictatorship, arbitrary dismissal of judges, and political instability, they may turn to other kinds of politics, far less favorable to the United States. Musharraf may hope that the Pakistani military will stand with him even if the vast majority of people turn against him. It is a forlorn hope, and a dangerous one, as the shah of Iran discovered in 1978-79. '


I am appalled by the rightwing US pundits who are taking advantage of Bhutto's assassination to blame "the people of Pakistan" for "extremism." Benazir's party would have won at least a plurality in parliament. The PPP is a moderate, middle class party, and it has done well in unrigged elections during the past 20 years. She was killed by an extremist of some sort. The Muslim fundamentalist parties usually only get 3 percent of the vote in national elections, and they got 11.3 percent of the popular vote in 2002 only because Musharraf interfered with the PPP and Muslim League campaigns.

Former Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, a lifelong rival of Benazir Bhutto, claimed that he, too, had been targeted for assassination on Thursday, but had escaped it. He said his party would boycott the January 8 elections called by President Pervez Musharraf, to protest Bhutto's death, and he called on other parties to boycott, as well. Sharif intimated that the Pakistani military was behind Ms. Bhutto's assassination.

In what may be a preview of civil unrest, A gun battle broke out between two factions of the Muslim League, leaving 4 persons dead. The Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz) group resisted encroachment from the Pakistan Muslim League (Qa'id-i A'zam). The PML-N is loyal to Nawaz Sharif, while PML (Q) is very close to Pervez Musharraf. Four Nawaz supporters were killed in the clash.

David Rohde of the NYT, who has been doing excellent reporting from Pakistan, wonders if President Pervez Musharraf can survive the crisis provoked by the assassination of Benazir Bhutto. Rohde recently reported on a nation-wide poll in Pakistan that showed that 67% of Pakistanis wanted Musharraf to resign, and 70% did not believe his government deserved reelection.

Likely the PPP will now select another leader. It has declared a 40-day mourning period and my guess is that elections therefore cannot be held until early February. The best chance for everyone getting out of this mess with hide intact is for the the PPP and the Muslim League to contest February elections and for a strong parliament to emerge with genuine grassroots support. If that does not happen, I am afraid of what might. This is a nuclear power we are talking about, in the middle of a very dangerous neighborhood.

The seriousness of the situation in the streets of some of Pakistan's important towns and cities doesn't seem to me to be being reported in the US press and media. In contrast, Pakistani newspapers are giving chilling details of large urban centers turned into ghost towns on Friday morning, with no transport available, hundreds of thousands of persons stranded far from home, shops closed, and banks, gas stations, police stations and automobiles torched. Karachi, Hyderabad, Larkana, Sukkur, Jacobabad and many others in Sindh Province fell victim to the violence (Bhutto was from Larkana in Sindh but had a residence in Karachi). The police seemed to be AWOL for the most part in these cities, allowing the rioting and looting to go on unhindered.

...much more...
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. neither bush nor his advisers are known for their ability
to take good advice. Especially cheney or rice.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. in the neocon world, 'moderate' is the new extreme
Edited on Fri Dec-28-07 08:20 AM by ixion
anyone who isn't a fire-breathing lunatic ranting about 'Islamo-fascism' is an extremist, these days. :(
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks.
I'm gathering stories right now in order to try and piece something together that makes sense. Lot's of things don't all add up with official lines we're being fed. It's going to be interesting to try and figure it all out cleanly.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
5. Good Info.
Thanks for posting. I was shocked when I heard she was assassinated last night. Olbermann did some good reporting on it. It amazes me that the bushes are so nonchalant about this. I guess it is just another shock they are looking to exploit billion out of.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. From Bush statements to
official spin, I am getting a vague smell of very familiar lies. Why and for what reason other than to make Bush look "Presidential" i couldn't begin to guess. In cases like this one speculates on what could be the worst, since the worst is usually the order of the day in reality. The fact that he may have known about the assassination, or at the very very least, been aware of it coming. It fits into their Great terror revival game plan as they also intend to divert national intention away from Iraq this year. When Bush grows calm and confident, someone dies. That's all we've been seeing for years. When his plans are really upset, personal plans that is, then he shows it big time.

The most that can be certainly said is that he really feels very little about this tragedy.

I would speculate that Musharraf is their many guy and they don't want someone cleaning house over their with all the Bush baggage unpacked. Nor do they want anyone really to do anything about terrorism or nukes in Pakistan. they like things the wat they are. If Al Qaeda is responsible it must also be noted they seem pretty close to being in accommodation with Musharraf, more so than with any popular government.

The fact that Bush emphasized catching the ones responsible tells me they are happy that will not possible. The problem in America, even for people who by long long and painful observation can truthfully equate Bush lips moving to a lie factory, constantly run up against the myth of his legitimacy and "good will" mixed with mistakes and incompetence or wrong agendas. Bush currently is scorching the earth to keep impeachment material from breaking that ridiculous dam of legitimacy illusion. The parallel to Musharraf is extremely disturbing, although I think plan A, getting the Dem they want and the Romney they want is heading in their desired direction. We have not seen any panic moves, such as installing martial law, but in everything else we are darn close.

If Musharraf thought it necessary to screw his country that blatantly to maintain nearly unsustainable power, what happens when the Bush WH really thinks, when, for the first time, it is at risk with no easy options?

How dare I? I dare not push aside the possibilities of these people exercising their hitherto mad, unrestrained and unscrupulously malevolent power thinking we are sure to win pretty fair elections- way off in November. Not thinking now about them might be better carried on by historians digging through the rubble decades later for all the good it will do, but let it be said, no one should trust Bush on anything. What reason has he ever given in these past 8 years to trust him on anything?
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Excellent, Patrick...may I post this to another site? n/t
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. By all means
n/t

Er, not the Fantasy Fiction group?
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thanks. No, it's a place I'm not allowed to mention here. n/t
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
6. .
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
8. K&R. (nt)
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. Bookmarked and e-mailed to many. We have friends and relatives in India,
my hubby was born and raised in New Delhi, so we are hungry for good and timely reporting. The US MSM hasn't got the guts to get their hands dirty, IMHO.

Thanks, Will.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
10. K & R !!!
:kick:
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks for posting
Juan Cole is a great source of info. I wish he was on teevee informing the general public about this.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. He is a genuine Middle East expert--a college professor --
Edited on Fri Dec-28-07 12:29 PM by tblue37
and yet you never see him on any MSM programs. Instead, you get the likes of Dinesh D' Souza, Ann Coulter, William Kristol. These people have no credentials, no expertise, yet they are the ones who get to bloviate all over our news media--not just Fox, either. Theya re all over CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN. People like Cole, who are actual experts, get no air time--or even print space--at all. So they have their own blogs, and the establishment then claims that the blogs are all populated by ignorant leftwing loonies.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
12. K & R, for some truth in reporting. Won't be seen on the US corporomedia what with the
tiger attack and Drew Peterson's latest antics grabbing the headlines.

I was contrasting the coverage today with that which I remember when Anwar Sadat was assassinated. After his death, there was saturation, or what passed for it at the time, reporting and analysis of the implications for that region and internationally.

Now, it's a toss off of "Al Queda did it" followed by breathless reporting of the fact that there is snow falling in lots of places in December.

Thank you for posting this. :kick: MKJ
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
13. Last paragraph of Juan Cole's post...
"Folks, I've seen civil wars and riots first hand, and revolutions from not too far away, and this situation looks pretty bad to me."
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Cole was in Lebanon during some of the worst periods of the civil war
I caught that line too, and it reminded me of what folks talked about when discussing Cole when I was in school. He's definitely not blowing smoke up anyone's skirt with that line.

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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
17. Like everything else that is wrong with this country. The real news is
not reaching the heart of this country. Juan Cole and others like him are the real hero's of the times.

The seriousness of the situation in the streets of some of Pakistan's important towns and cities doesn't seem to me to be being reported in the US press and media. In contrast, Pakistani newspapers are giving chilling details of large urban centers turned into ghost towns on Friday morning, with no transport available, hundreds of thousands of persons stranded far from home, shops closed, and banks, gas stations, police stations and automobiles torched. Karachi, Hyderabad, Larkana, Sukkur, Jacobabad and many others in Sindh Province fell victim to the violence (Bhutto was from Larkana in Sindh but had a residence in Karachi). The police seemed to be AWOL for the most part in these cities, allowing the rioting and looting to go on unhindered.

snip,,,,,,

Folks, I've seen civil wars and riots first hand, and revolutions from not too far away, and this situation looks pretty bad to me.

posted by Juan Cole
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
18. Sharif's party may boycott elections..
That always makes me smile a little when people say that. The other party..the one who's getting all the votes doesn't give a shit who boycotts the election..in fact they are happy when opponents do not show up..


It always reminds me a bit of toddlers threatening to hold their breath..:)
I only wish we could find a way to get republicans to boycott the elections in '08


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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. I thought of that, too..
what if no one else heeds his call? Then he's out boycotting.
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
19. K&R
Juan Cole is always a must read for news out of the Middle East. His ability to interpret their newspapers into English and report it here is a wonderful service for those who want the truth.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. K&R. Thank you. This is what we should be seeing on the news...
:-(
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
23. .
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