Companies may have found a way around H-1B visa limits

Source: InfoWorld

December 28, 2007

The Story: Silicon Valley businesses have long argued that changes in the immigration laws are needed to ensure a continuing supply of highly skilled workers. The current limit of 65,000 under the standard H1-B visas is not enough, they say. (The quota was filled in less than a month in 2007.)

But that number obscures an important fact: The real total of visas issued to highly skilled workers is closer to 400,000 annually, according to the federal Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) agency. And that, say some critics, may mean that the law is being abused.

There are two reasons the number is so large.

First, the H1-B visa cap has a built-in exemption that allows an additional 20,000 workers who have graduated from U.S. universities with an advanced degree (master’s or higher) to enter every year.

Second — and the biggest reason — is the use of L-1 visas, which are granted to executives and workers with specialized skills employed by multinational companies. Because there is no cap on L-1 visas issued each year, the numbers have soared. In the last three years, an average of 315,000 L-1 visas have been issued each year.



Read more: http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/12/28/52FE-underreported-visas_1.html

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<snip> But the vast number of workers admitted with L-1 visas has critics suspecting that companies — Indian outsourcing firms in particular —are using them as a back door to bring in lower-paid workers to do jobs that could be performed by Americans, rather than for the intended purposes of staff rotation.

"It's clear that foreign outsourcing firms are abusing the system, and we can't let that continue," Sen. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.) said earlier this year as Congress debated immigration reform. Here’s what upset him: According to immigration records, 14 of 20 companies whose employees were granted the most L-1 visas were offshore outsourcing firms, including Tata Consultancy, Satyam Computer Services, Wipro, and Infosys Technologies.

leaving millions of qualified Americans out of a job, or making less than they made 6 years ago. The only ones who have profited are the execs. The rest of us have gotten the shaft, as usual.

If I changed jobs in the same area of technology right now, I'd have to take a significant pay cut. My current job is under constant threat of being outsourced overseas.

are being outsourced, as well.

You'll be wasting any money you spend on training. I made good money doing this working for a service. When they tried to cut our pay (to compete with India), I struck out on my own and cut out the middle-man, but still had to take less for doing the same amount of work. It's ridiculous how low we've had to cut our rates to compete with them. It's almost impossible to make any profit unless you are a company with a huge amount of volume.

It's only going to get worse, because in addition to Indian med students who work for a fraction of what we need to charge (just to pay overhead), there are now computers that are simple enough for doctors to use (once set up by the vendor to suit the doctor's needs). All they have to do is push buttons for each symptom, each test to be ordered, the diagnosis or diagnoses, the treatment and prescriptions. This thing will then:

1) Create a chart note for the practice's electronic medical record system.
2) Create a letter to the referring doctor to update him or her on the patient.
3) Fax the insurance company so there's a record for billing purposes.
4) Fax the prescriptions to a chosen pharmacy.

This pretty much eliminates our entire job and it's mainly small practices (1-3 doctors) who have switched to this, so it must not be that expensive.

So be forewarned that my job is going the way of the dinosaur. Pick something else, but they'll be importing foreign doctors, nurses, etc with those visas eventually, too, so I'm not really sure that training in Health Care is going to be a solution.

I think the only way to make a living in the future is going to be providing services to the uber-wealthy. Interior decorator, tennis coach, life coach (hahaha), etc, etc, etc....

it is called epic, and docs make notes right on the computer. everything is automated, right down to making appointments, and, as you say, one touch test orders, etc. nurses in the doc's office are getting dumber and dumber, that is to say, less and less trained, and of course, less and less pay.
you are right. many jobs in healthcare are becoming obsolete.

either a radiology technician or a respiratory therapist. Neither of those can be outsourced, because they involve direct patient contact.

But Radiology is already being outsourced to India.

Hospitals look out for radiology outsourcing (India)

17 Jul, 2007
NEW DELHI: In a bid to expand its outsourcing business, Indian corporate hospitals are now exploring the radiology segment. They are in talks with hospitals in the US and UK who are interested in outsourcing radiology work.

Fortis Healthcare is in talks with some hospitals in the US to outsource the radiology work to its hospitals. A company official told ET: “It is an area of the healthcare sector we are keen to tap. We have begun preliminary talks with few hospitals in the US.”

Radiology covers medical imaging such as X-rays, CT scans, MRIs, and ultrasound. These images can be transferred to Indian hospitals through a dedicated line. The hospitals can then analyse them and send the reports back.

Radiology constitutes about 5-7% of the entire healthcare expenditure. The global healthcare market is a huge $2.8 trillion. Typically, radiology outsourcing to Indian hospitals can cut down cost by about 50% or less. In addition to cost cutting, the 12-hour time difference enables hospitals in the US to work 24X7.

Indian doctors can carry out the radiology work but it has to be approved by a radiologist certified by the American Board of Radiology, who could either be in India or the US. Apollo Hospitals Group chief medical officer (international projects) Dr N Vetrivel said, “Outsourcing in healthcare is going to drive the Indian corporate hospitals. We are exploring all work that can be technologically outsourced.”

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Healthcare__Biotech/Healthcare/Hospitals_look_out_for_radiology_outsourcing/articleshow/2208896.cms

Radiologists are doctors that interpret the images. The technicians are the people who actually take the x-rays. They have to be in the same location as the patient. I am not, nor do I have the resources to become an M.D.

that future u.s. jobs will be mostly "service" oriented. corporate greed knows no bounds...

i'm in sacramento california and on the daily train ride to work, there are many east indian workers, men and women, on their way to work. it's only since * has been in office that this has become blatantly obvious. it really upsets me!

Nannies, barbers & surgeons will be the only jobs left in US

Thursday, April 12, 2007 01:50 IST

WASHINGTON, DC: When Princeton University economist Alan S Blinder told the Wall Street Journal this week about 30-40 million US jobs being offshored, he was actually emphasising what he has been saying for a few years now — that millions of American jobs will be outsourced to countries like India and China not just because of low wages or skill levels, but because it is easier to get work “delivered electronically with very little diminution of quality.”

Blinder’s reputation and his rigour at research have ensured that his figures are accepted by many, especially those in politics. Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama, for instance, speaks with Blinder to get his views on economic policy. Hillary Clinton is also a regular.

Unlike most of America which feels that outsourcing to India and China is bad for the US economy, Blinder feels that eventually, all three countries would benefit. So, has the once-free-trade advocate turned into a protectionist? “My view is that, in the economic realm, this (free trade) is going to be the biggest policy issue of the next generation,”

But the Wall Street Journal says: “Blinder says there’s an urgent need to retool America’s education system so it trains young people for jobs likely to remain in the US. A college diploma, he warns, may lose its exalted ‘silver bullet’ status.”

It isn’t how many years one spends in school that will matter, he says, it’s choosing to learn the skills for jobs that cannot easily be delivered electronically from afar.... Mostly he wants to shock politicians, policy makers and other economists into realising how big a change is coming and what new sectors it will reach, the WSJ says. “This is something factory workers have understood for a generation. It’s now coming down on the heads of highly educated, politically vocal people, and they’re not going to take it,” Blinder added.

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1090261

instead of looking for "real" work? At least the pay is good for the time worked, and my rates are very low: $30/hr.

Yes, I have a BA and almost an MA (ABT) in music.

I used to get the local hospital's newsletter. In it, wedged between the cover story on whatever new not-coverable-by-insurance elective procedure they're pushing this quarter and the schedules for the "support groups," you'll find the New Doctors page. Fayetteville is the hub of medical activity for this region, and there are always lots of new doctors coming to town.

Almost all of them come from either Pakistan or India.

Within 10 years there won't be any American doctors, unless they're willing to practice in Pakistan or India. Something tells me that India is about to suffer an extreme shortage of medicos.

I make my living in the immigration field and while most people demonize the H-1B program without understanding what it entails, I have been very much alone in voicing my opposition to the unfettered number of L-1 visas - the L-1B especially, which is for 'specialized knowledge' workers - used by companies such as my previous employer (I_M Corp.) and its newly formed sub company to import Indian IT workers.

Another curious thing about many Indian workers is that their education credentials are, to say it gently, suspect. In other words, when I do H-1Bs I have to get foreign degrees evaluated by independent agencies in the U.S. to determine if the degrees are equivalent to at least a U.S. bachelor's degree (a requirement of the H-1B). Many times, an Indian 'bachelor' degree is not equivalent to a U.S. bachelor's and hence the person does not qualify for the H-1B.

The way to get around that is to apply for the L-1B, framing the worker as one who possesses 'specialized knowledge' - by itself, an intricate definition, but one which can be skillfully met by an experienced paralegal or attorney.

To be fair, USCIS has gotten very strict with L-1Bs, much more than they used to be. In fact, at my previous employer many of the L-1Bs were outright denied.

Note that I have no problem whatsoever with the L-1A. That's for executive or manager-level capacities. Moreover, in case you are not familiar with the L visa, it is solely an intracompany transfer visa. This means that the employee must have worked abroad for at least 1 year (or 6 months under certain criteria) for a foreign subsidiary/parent company/affiliate etc. This means that if I work at McDonald's in India for 2 years I cannot come to work for a U.S. Burger King on the L-1B visa. However, I can come to work for a U.S. based McDonald's.

One way that large companies can get around it and look good to the public by showing they do not outsource is by establishing a U.S. subsidiary or a foreign subsidiary, call it something else not related to the parent company, and then 'import' workers that way. For instance, Company X establishes Company Y (wholly-owned by Company X) and then brings in workers employed by Company X India (or wherever) through Company Y on the L-1B because it can show to USCIS that Company Y and Company X India are wholly owned and controlled by the same parent company, Company X. Hence, technically Company X can claim it does not outsource.

Ah, the joys of being an immigration paralegal! :eyes:

I've watched firsthand the decline of the American tech worker. For the most part, they've gone with barely a whimper. Hence the visa limits soar while American workers get the shaft. But if our representatives don't hear otherwise they will continue to listen to the dollars.

I constantly write my congressman, senators and whomever will listen.

are in a Depression

"Guest workers," illicit visas, illegal aliens, and a multitude of abuses have turned the Immigration System into little more than a way to exploit human beings solely for profiteering on their skills and abilities. It's an abomination.

I can't buy that there are not enough american workers born in this country who are not qualified to do alot of the work that is now shipped out or in-sourced . It's insane .

Are we to believe that americans are now stupid across the board . Fair is fair but this is not fair .

It's all for cheap labor and high profit with the down side of alot of mistakes .

Beside this , who wants all their health and personal info floating all over the globe ?

We have lost enough jobs already and union jobs . What the hell do we make here anymore , nothing but paper work and service connections .

I worked all sorts of labor jobs including carpentry and can't find one single job even at min wage when this was never a problem before all of these criminal con artists came along with grand ideas they crapped out of their ass and sold to companies , lookie here , we can show you how to rip off the people and pay far less and they did it and we allowed it , burn down wallyworld .

Study: There Is No Shortage of U.S. Engineers

A commonly heard defense in the arguments that surround U.S. companies that offshore high-tech and engineering jobs is that the U.S. math and science education system is not producing a sufficient number of engineers to fill a corporation's needs.

However, a new study from Duke University calls this argument bunk, stating that there is no shortage of engineers in the United States, and that offshoring is all about cost savings.

This report, entitled "Issues in Science and Technology" and published in the latest National Academy of Sciences magazine further explores the topic of engineering graduation rates of India, China and the United States, the subject of a 2005 Duke study.

In the report, concerns are raised that China is racing ahead of both the United States and India in its ability to perform basic research. It also asserts that the United States is risking losing its global edge by outsourcing critical R&D and India is falling behind by playing politics with education. Meanwhile, it considers China well-positioned for the future.

Duke's 2005 study corrected a long-heard myth about India and China graduating 12 times as many engineers as the United States, finding instead that the United States graduates a comparable number.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2111347,00.asp

Put a ship right off the coast of major American cities just outside American territory in international waters... That's what's being done here now in San Diego!



http://www.boingboing.net/2005/04/19/sweat-ship-offshore-.html

Of course, our politicians or media don't have the time to talk about this operation though. Of course!

http://www.sea-code.com/

That would be Hillary!

She won't get my vote.