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DisgustipatedinCA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:19 AM
Original message
RIAA sues for copying legally-purchased CD to hard drive
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/28/AR2007122800693.html
Download Uproar: Record Industry Goes After Personal Use

Despite more than 20,000 lawsuits filed against music fans in the years since they started finding free tunes online rather than buying CDs from record companies, the recording industry has utterly failed to halt the decline of the record album or the rise of digital music sharing.
...
Now, in an unusual case in which an Arizona recipient of an RIAA letter has fought back in court rather than write a check to avoid hefty legal fees, the industry is taking its argument against music sharing one step further: In legal documents in its federal case against Jeffrey Howell, a Scottsdale, Ariz., man who kept a collection of about 2,000 music recordings on his personal computer, the industry maintains that it is illegal for someone who has legally purchased a CD to transfer that music into his computer.

The industry's lawyer in the case, Ira Schwartz, argues in a brief filed earlier this month that the MP3 files Howell made on his computer from legally bought CDs are "unauthorized copies" of copyrighted recordings.
(more at link)
---
It wasn't until I read this article that I became aware I must be one of the most heinous criminals still loose on the streets, still ripping CD's with impunity.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. Holy crap. That's going way too far; how do they intend to police us all? nt
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Gee back in the 70's I recorded 45's and LP's on my cassette tapes
so I could listen to them at work.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. you'd just better hope that the statute of limitations has run out...
you felonious bastard.











:sarcasm:
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. Like murder, there is no statute of limitations as far as the
Edited on Sun Dec-30-07 01:56 PM by RC
RIAA is concerned. We all need to ourselves in to save them the trouble of coming after us. How many of us have deleted the music Micro$oft has installed on our hard drives?
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Bright Eyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
3. Greed.
I hope the RIAA gets counter sued for extortion.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. what a bunch of crap... so people who got ipods can't move their legally purchased music
to their ipod?

That is patently ludicrous.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
6. The RIAA should sue Microsoft.
If it's illegal, why would "Rip" be one of the choices in Media Player?
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DisgustipatedinCA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. And Apple for that matter
iTunes allows you to rip CD's to mp3 or AAC format.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. This whole thing
reeks of someone trying to make a name for themselves in the legal community. For a law to exist, doesn't it have to be enforceable?
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
43. *DING* *DING* *DING* We have a winner!
Even Vista's media player has the function to rip. And has for years.

And everybody pisses on Vista claiming it straaaaaaaaaaaaangles people with DRM...
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. I don't want to carry the EXPENSIVE originals to the gym... nt
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DisgustipatedinCA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. You can protect the expensive originals at the gym
I'm envisioning a lockable 24-CD changer strapped to your back with headphones so you can listen while you work out, and your CD's are safe. And with the 24-disc changer, you'll be able to store almost as much music as the original iPod Shuffle would carry in a gum pack-sized container.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
9. Their business model no longer works in the modern world,
so they are pursuing their law-abiding customers to punish them for it.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. :sarcasm:
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Didereaux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
10. Fearless Prediction: RIAA will lose this one, without sharing there is no foul
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. This is dangerous. IMO, it builds on this case
Capitol Records v. Jammie Thomas, where a jury delivered 24 guilty counts of infringement. The jurors to found her liable, the record labels did not have to prove that songs on her computer had actually been transmitted to others online.

Because Thomas' infringement was determined willful, the jury awarded $9,250 in statutory damages per song, for a total of $222,000 in damages.
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Didereaux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. if memory serves though she was connected onto a peer2peer, that is how they located her
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. IIRC, she used a kazaa account on a couple of websites whose
libraries didn't 'match' the hard drive's music. They claimed she had the 'potential' to share.
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
11. If there argument has merit, then they're going to have to sue
millions of people from decades ago. Anyone who has ever made a copy of a recording is, based on their argument, guilty of copyright infringement. They can sue my 85 year-old father, for recording his Perry Como and Frank Sinatra LP's to reel-to-reel tape . . . he even let other people listen to them at parties!

The HORROR!!

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msedano Donating Member (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. I borrow music from the public library...
doesn't the Patriot Act give the RIAA free access to my record records? Luckily, I do not dump the CDs to my computer, and I keep only text files on my iPod. Should I abandon my thoughts of obtaining a USB turntable to convert my old vinyls into digital content?
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Feron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. No. Go ahead and convert your vinyl.
The Supreme Court ruling in the Betamax case protects fair use and converting your purchased media should fall under that as long as the files aren't shared.

IIRC Howell, the defendant in this case, wanted to share his files over his personal computer network and used Kazaa as the method. The WP story is a bit misleading because there was a supporting brief saying that copying a CD is theft, but Howell wasn't sued for that.

Anyhow it's no secret that the RIAA wants to move to a pay per play or rent model as opposed to purchasing a CD that could last a lifetime.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Which Is About As Stupid As It Gets (the "rent" model)
What the suits can't seem to wrap their heads around is that no matter what they come up with, some 16 year old is going to find their way to code around it.

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msedano Donating Member (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
48. RIAA arranged an add-on charge for blank media
didn't they? So when you buy a cassette tape, some portion goes to RIAA as the tax owed to RIAA just in case you make a copy of registered media. Pretty soon we'll pay a dollar extra for a ream of blank paper in case we want to print something copyrighted.

thanx for the go-ahead. I was gonna cut the wires.
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Didereaux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
15. it is not illegal to TIVO an HBO therefor it is not illegal to digitize an audio CD
This will be lost or thrown out, or the judge will get his ass chewed on appeal. RIAA has won cases ONLY when it involved 'sharing' the files with others.(even that has been without majority court support)
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. Better watch it- you just confessed to illegal activity online
with that little blurb you added at the bottom. If they see that post they WILL come for you.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
41. How come all the pot smokers around here aren't arrested?
Well, at least those who like to admit they do?

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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
19. Don't people pay royalties on blank CDs and CD burners under the AHRA of 1992?
:wtf:
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
20. Just who is the riaa?
The trail has to lead back to one or a handfull of people, whoever it is they are ratshit crazy insane and need medicated.
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DisgustipatedinCA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. It's a lobbying group for record companies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RIAA_member_labels
Big Four" RIAA members

* EMI
* Sony BMG Music Entertainment
* Universal Music Group
* Warner Music Group


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riaa
Company structure

The RIAA is led by Mitch Bainwol, who has been Chairman and CEO since 2003. He is assisted by Cary Sherman, the President of the Board of Directors. There are 27 members of the board, who are drawn from a number of record companies.<2>

The RIAA represents a large number of members (see List of RIAA member labels), who are private corporate entities such as record labels and distributors, and who create and distribute about 90% of recorded music sold in the US.
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. RIAA jumps the shark. What a surprise.
Idiots.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
24. As a writer and former songwriter, I'm REALLY strong on copyright protection.
Edited on Sun Dec-30-07 12:44 PM by Redstone
But this is just fucking stupid. I hope the judge / jury slaps the shit out of the RIAA.

If this guy bought a CD with one of my songs on it, I'd get paid my nickel in royalties. Should I get another nickel just because he wants to listen to that song on his computer, rather than on a CD player?

Absolutely not.

He's paid to listen to the song. The source from which he wants to listen to it is his business, and not anyone else's.

Redstone
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. I'm glad to see you say this Redstone
Edited on Sun Dec-30-07 02:20 PM by libnnc
I have a brazillion CDs (purchased with my employee discount from Sam Goody years ago) and recently I've been downloading them on my laptop via iTunes. Eventually I'm going to get an iPod so I can finally have the music I want in the palm of my hand without wading trough mountains of jewel cases and crap.

Why does the RIAA not understand that in the wake of iTunes (I drop at least $20 a month buying music and audio books from them) CDs are cumbersome, outdated technology? It's crazy!
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. Hey, why should I expect someone to pay for something twice? And, as far as I'm concerned,
if someone wants to make a "songs I think you'd like" tape or CD for one of their friends, no harm there either.

It's the online "sharing" stuff (the old Napster, Limewire, etc) that is theft, pure and simple.

Redstone
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
44. I agree with you. 100%.
He paid the license.

As long as he doesn't take his songs and give them to all sorts of strangers over the internet or other mediums, he has the right to make a copy for personal use. With so many items no longer in print, to lose the copy first purchased would be very tragic.

Pirates can go to hell. That includes the pirates in countries the big name companies give sweet deals to. (Software and DVD companies are giving nice rates to China as means to "curb piracy". I wouldn't be surprised if members of the RIAA engage in the same double standard too...)
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. This time, we are in absolute agreement.
Redstone
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
26. Avoid RIAA "protected" cd's with this site
http://riaaradar.com/

they are going WAY too far.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. I despise the RIAA
Due to their gestapo tactics, I haven't bought CD's (except a few to support liberal singers criticizing Bushco) for 5 years running. The artists who defy the RIAA also get my support.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. I haven't bought a CD in over ten years
I saw this coming a loooooong time ago, back when .mp3 first appeared.

That, and the crap RIAA artists put out just isn't worth the money, IMO.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
29. good grief how many times should I have to pay for shit?
Once, twice, forty-eleven? How much of my money to these creeps want?


Fucking ridiculous.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
30. This whole bullshit issue is the direct result of the republiks packing the courts with their
corporate cronies. This same case was slapped down in the 70s over the cassette recorder and again in the 80s over the VCR.

It is time For Americans to stand up and take their power back, if we don't we will become nothing more than indentured servants.




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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
33. Isn't it specifically legal to make copies
of legally purchased recordings??? I'm thinking vinyl to cassette tape here, but it's still the same damn thing.
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
34. Attached is a link to a legal brief in the case that describes the actions
Edited on Sun Dec-30-07 02:38 PM by Crabby Appleton
http://www.ilrweb.com/viewILRPDFfull.asp?filename=atlantic_howell_071207RIAASupplementalBrief

hope the link works. I personally couldn't care less about the record companies (artists yes, companies no-fuck'em). It does seem from the filing that the defendant was using kazaa; the copying issues is not the meat of the case. The defendant Howell is going to lose this case based on the other evidence.

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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. I think you are right -- its a distribution case, not a copying case
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. The guy got caught distributing songs via kazaa, the WaPo
article is very misleading.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
35. ATTENTION DU COPYRIGHT APOLOGISTS!
WE TOLD YOU SO!
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
37. Interesting post
Obviously you don't pay for the physical medium; That piece of plastic isn't worth 10-15 bucks. No, what you pay for is the music on it (as the RIAA must have argued previously).

Transferred ownership would imply that the music wouldn't belong to the record company anymore. That would be a very bad deal to the record company, so instead, what they sell you is a license to listen to that music. Once you buy a CD, you get to listen to a piece of music as many times as you want.

But you cannot distribute copies of it- the music is protected by copyright law. Now, the record companies argue that making a copy for personal use implies you are not listening to the licensed material anymore- instead, you are listening to a copy (never mind that bits *must* be copied around before the audio hits the speaker).

A case can be made for the fact that an MP3 isn't the licensed material: you can do a bitwise comparison and find out that what you are listening to isn't what you licensed.

This is where the fun starts. Rights and obligations most always come in pairs. If you have the obligation to send your kids to school, this implies the right to have schools built to send your kid to (and building the schools is then in turn the obligation of the state).

So if I cannot make copies for personal use but paid for a license to listen to music represented by a certain pattern of bits, I will have an unalienable right to listen to that music, represented by that *exact* pattern of bits. This implies the obligation of the record company to indefinitely provide me with that exact pattern of bits forever and ever and ever (unless otherwise stated in a written license agreement).

This means that whenever I accidentally scratch the CD that I bought so that it isn't bit-for-bit readable anymore, I'm entitled to a replacement- this obligation arises on RIAA's side of the deal. I guess that is where my microwave oven and sledge hammer come into the picture, and that is where the fun *really* starts.

Source


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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
38. This is exactly why we have to stop corporatism NOW
When I buy a CD, it is mine. If I want to make a copy for my car, a copy for my Ipod, a copy for a hard drive and a copy to wipe my ass with, it is NONE OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS. I paid for it. It is my property, not that of MegaCorporateRecords, Inc.

FUCK the RIAA. They are fascists, and they can suck my ass. So can anyone who defends them.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
40. If everybody stopped buying CDs and destroyed their existing ones,
and not buy new ones, the RIAA would be out of biz.

Unless they're conspiring something all big and sticky...

There is a right to fair use and backing up for PERSONAL use.

If the RIAA can prove beyond reasonable doubt people are sharing, more power to them.

BTW: Will the RIAA sue Bill Gates for allowing even Vista to rip CDs to the local computer's hard drive?

Uh-oh. The RIAA execs better get the CDs out of their butts... Never piss on Microsoft; if there's a constant in life, it's that!
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
42. Bunch of mafia wannabes.
Fuck that jazz. The RIAA sucks donkey balls!
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
46. RIAA has been very careful not to cross the line about personal use
I've had my share of legal fights with RIAA (I used to represent an online music company that, sad to say, is no longer around) and am very familiar with what they've said in congressional hearings and litigation regarding copying for personal use. Namely, they waffle. They hint that they think if its unauthorized its infringing, but also acknowledge that it could be fair use. In other words they try to have their cake and eat it too.

I was surprised, therefore, to see the article cited by the OP, which suggests that RIAA is now expressly going after someone for simply ripping copies. However, after reading the brief, that is not what they've said or done. RIAA is not claiming that the defendant violated the copyright owner's exclusive right to make (or authorize the making of) copies. Rather, they are suing for an infringement of the exclusive right to authorize the distribution of copies. In other words, its not simply the ripping that they are complaining about -- its the ripping and storing on a shared file available to a peer-to-peer service (Kazaa).

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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Aha. I did not see the Kazaa connection in the original post. Thanks for the elucidation;
my position as an interested party (a songwriter) is stated above.

If as the OP seemed to indicate, the defendant just wanted to listen to those songs from his computer, rather than from the original CDs he bought, then the RIAA is wrong.

However, if he made those songs avaliable to others via an online "sharing" service, such as Kazaa, he's a thief.

Q.E.D.

Redstone
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. The WaPo article is misleading, the guy got caught using kazaa
the defendant said he didn't realize that kazaa program was sharing the files with others, he was sued for the sharing, not the copying.

Here is the original judgment in the case:

http://www.ilrweb.com/viewILRPDFfull.asp?filename=atlantic_howell_070820OrderGrantSumJudg

(cross posted in other related threads)
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #46
53. edited
Edited on Mon Dec-31-07 02:04 AM by kgfnally
nevermind


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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
47. Wow, they've really lowered the "Stupid Bar" haven't they?
:wtf:

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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
54. kick
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