My concern is that the Democrat will continue our march toward fascism...

That they do not truly understand where we are at as a nation or the direction and speed we are headed toward corporate control of everything. I am concerned that most Democrats and almost all the Republicans are more than willing to continue the war in Iraq and the war on the American people. It has been obvious to me for some time that many of our Senators are in the pocket of big corporations and Big Business.

It is not good enough just to vote against the Republican Party. I must now separate the Democrats into their own camps. Those that are concerned about protecting corporations at the expense of our Constitution and our individual rights and those that understand the threat we are under. That is the choice I feel like I must make as a Democrat.

Dems need to help bring about a total 180 in where power resides - not with organized mobs and elites, but with INDIVIDUALS.

Imagine that - a country of the people, by the people, for the people. Sound familiar?

The Congressional Democrats certainly don't seem to have any real sense of urgency and the Democratic Presidential candidates ignore this undeniable state of affairs. Only Edwards addresses, partially, the fascism that is all but established in this nation, and I am not sure he really wants to address these issues either - piecemeal perhaps, but not as a confrontation with fascism. It is a growing worry...

when Clinton was elected, I thought that we'd see some sanity come back, but no. The bogus, so-called 'War on Drugs' continued unabated, and escalated, in fact.

So yes, I think you're spot on here.

Division sure did wonders for America's political system, didn't it? Political division is one of the core basics of fascism.

If you want to end corporatism, you have to have publicly funded elections. What we have is a bribery system. As it stands now, corporations are seen as people. As long as this is the case, the only way democrats will be able to win presidential elections is by taking corporate money.

or any subsequent posts. Can you explain what you mean? Thanks.

Division is a rot on our political system. It makes it dysfunctional.

Corporate financing of elections in the US is a systemic problem. You can attempt to treat the symptoms, but major surgery is necessary to fix the underlying problem. BUCKLEY v. VALEO needs to be reversed. This supreme court decision says that money is speech and it allows Corporations to donate to political campaigns.

http://www.campaignfinancesite.org/court/buckley1.html

As it stands, publicly financed elections are the only way to take corporations out of our election system. Until that happens, corporate money will be a fact of life in the Democratic party.

far outweighs the concerns you raise.

The longer we cannot think outside the status quo, the worse it will get and the faster it will speed up the transition from Liberty to Tyranny.

I do agree about publicly financed elections, but we won't get that from the status quo, not now that it has passed several tipping points and is already halfway to whatever Final Solution the Bushies have planned for us Loyal Americans.

In other words, as good a President as Bill Clinton was, he didn't reverse any of these devastating trends, he only slowed them down a bit.

And that is no longer good enough, not even close.

cancer, the corporitists. If this is division then it is needed. I hope you don't think we should all march in lockstep to the tune of the DLC. We will never have public financed elections until we rid the party of the corporitists. Is your candidate is a corporitists?

The DLC is certainly responsible for hastening that slide by providing easy access to the candidates and far too much input into the campaigns for the sake of winning. The party has and will experience increased corruption with all the easy money flying around and, within a few more election cycles, there would truly be no difference between the two parties or the goals of their elected candidates.

Many of us have already posted extensively about the Corporocrats and that slide needs to end NOW: Then campaign finance reform needs to be implemented the second we have a majority in the House and Senate. Corporations may have "personhood" but that piece of paper says "for the people," and, since corporations cannot vote, they should not be allowed to influence elections in any manner, especially one which is, by any definition, the fast-track to corruption.

We need a change and the first and easiest thing would be to out the DLC/Corporate/Republican Lite candidates, defeat them in the primaries and elect those Democrats who understand what the party is about. They need us far more than we need them and, if they're going to BE Republicans, they need to run AS Republicans. Our choices, as well as the results, would more accurately reflect the will of the people.

In no way would these things result in a weakening of the Democratic party. Just the opposite: Those of us who are less suspicious of politicians in general, vote the party line or don't bother (or have the ability) to research the candidates could be assured that, if not voting for the best Democratic candidate, they'd at least be voting Democrat. In the meantime, the Republican party can and should be painted with a broad brush of Corporatism, irresponsible, irrational and hateful social and economic policies and fascism. Defections to both the Democratic and Independent parties will continue and more responsible adults will be elected.

Anyone who reads DU is painfully aware of what Corporatism is doing to this country (well, the Freepers are still in denial), and we haven't begun to see the extent of the fallout from the disastrous experiment of the past eight years. The Corprocrats need to be kicked to the curb because we can't afford to screw up again. Even four more years of this and they'll have us by the short hairs for decades.

So short-sighted.

It's incomprehensible that practically every member of Congress - every representative - has been bought, or has bought into the privatization and corporate control of our country. It's their country too, and certainly they are aware of the failures of privatization in other countries, and how this process degrades a country and its citizens. Certainly they do know this, but they continue down the path that will inevitably lead to the complete destruction of our country and all it stands for.

Our representatives have children and grand children, as do the members of the press, who also most assuredly understand the direction we are being hurled in. Do they think they are immune, that their fortunes will last forever? I have sad news for them. Fortunes can be lost in a second, do not doubt it.

Members of Congress and the press need to seriously grow up and look at what they are doing. Those who do not agree must level with us. They must denounce the march to fascism, or stand in the ruins of their once-great country, knowing they alone took the sledgehammers to its foundations.

n/t

John Edwards mentioned that in a speech the other day in his "Faces" video. What a brilliant idea to bring the voices of the American people back into our Government, straight to the bully pulpit of the President. The power of all our voices boistering the populist agenda of a President John Edwards. Now that's something I'll sign up for!!

A man that co-sponsored the deaths of over a million innocent men,women, children and babies is exactly what our country needs now.

:sarcasm:

Even a crappy Democrat like Hillary Clinton is better than anybody the Republicans are putting up.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

There are many DINO's that need to be weeded out. Until then we are lost.

like DiFi to win, then what have you won when they vote republican?

Easier said than done, I know.

But electing a DINO is better than electing a Republican in nearly all cases.

Bryant

we risk losing the general. I say we have to take the risk. The Attorney General just launched a mickey mouse investigation into the destruction of the CIA torture tapes which will keep Congress from investigating. Mukasey and the republicans win again thanks to DINO's Schumer and Feinstein.

Shove the country back toward the left to correct what has been done under republican rule.

:nuke:

:yoiks:

he believes right-wing extremism is currently back on its heels, and in general he is more pragmatic than hyperbolic.

Corporate fascism no matter who wins the nomination and election. The nation-state is on the way out and a multinational corporate oligarchy is well on the way to replacing it.

And the wary def notice how the astonishing lack of discussion within the mainline media/candidate debates regarding corporatism/centralized power out of the hands of the people, the blatantly anti democratic legislation of late, Patriot Act, mass spying, and working hand in hand w/media/communications corps to ensure this. The list is long, and there is simply no way that a candidate who opposes all of this will ever be "elected."

And if he/she were elected, they would meet the same fate as Benazir Bhutto...

is what I always keep at the back of my head as of one of the reasons that Gore may not have wanted the job...

This is the heart and soul.... the very core issue of this entire campaign.

All we need to do is look at the campaign contributions of these candidates and we know who is taking money from big corporate interests. Plain as the noses on our faces. And then we choose who can win against the Republicans. Simple as that.

If we do these things, honestly and fairly, there's a chance still for us to take America back from those that have stolen her from us. Or we may lose her forever.

Our children are counting on us.

Also I can see that there are many, many, many people who vote based on what they see and hear on t.v. which is controlled by corp. who want everything to stay the way it is now. The media is pushing and prodding the folks going to causus, shameful.

corporatists like order.

They are no longer Democrats.

Interesting concept. Think I have heard of it before.

Don

does not necessarily make them an ally of the people. ALthough I agree with a previous post that any Democrat would be better than the Republican that might win.

I think the OP is talking about how he needs to think about the Democrats in office today - the "D" after their name doesn't mean all of them are looking out for our interests. Many indeed are in the pockets of the insurance companies, the drug companies, the oil and energy companies, and the military contractor companies, and are in fact working daily against our interests.

Didn't it?

of Democrat than they are with what they stand for, it seems to me. That is a dangerous way to choose a leader, in my opinion.

This and my fear that BushCo. will get away with all they've done and will never have to answer for their crimes.

We deserve what we get. We're showing ourselves to be a nation of outlaws and cowards - visiting death and destruction on entire countries in an orgasm of 'might makes right' corporate colonialism and unwilling to bear even the inconvenience of civil disobedience, let alone the increasingly necessary blood in the streets.

He's been by far the most consistent and ardent anti-fascist candidate in the 2004 and 2008 primaries.

You might at least alleviate some of your anxiety by giving up on the Scholastic hairsplitting concerning the Democratic Party. Any who have ascended the party hierarchy, by election or beaucratic means are bought, it's simply the way the system works. It's a dog & pony show, a facade for us rubes. The prescence of any seemingly left in the party is simply for the purpose of bait and switch, consider DK in '04.

There is no hope in this process, it's choices are false. Time for something completely different.

thus far, Ms. Pelosi et all seem unconcerned about the dangerous path we're on.
Dont'know what it will take to shake them up enough.

Not an end in itself.

What good is voting for, or being a member of, a party that doesn't reflect your principles?

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

That we should all take to heart.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

Just what "left" are you talking about?

I must be missing where the corporate media encourages people to oppose creeping fascism. Is that on after Family Guy? :shrug:

If that chimp tries to take a third term, I will begin my 'march', right the fuck out of this country.

Thankfully its citizens, unlike some fucking morons whining about division, can actually see the danger.

DC is like it's own bubble , I don't know how these mega corps who now have all the power whether they are big oil or medical or the military and the media as well as all big business are going to now be put under control after they were allowed to become so powerful . They run this government now more than ever before .

Once jobs are gone how do you get them back , not everyone is into the service industry . People can't survive in this setup global free trade economy and not everyone can work in the green industry if it does take off I suspect the big corps will take control of that too .

however I fear you (we, rather) are still very much in the minority, even among dems, so... *sigh*

Its only the socialist republicans who will lock us up soviet style gulags and use us for forced labor.

When the democrats finaly get back in control they might be able to make this country more like europe, where that kind of stuff can't happen.

"I must now separate the Democrats into their own camps."

Sad, ain't it. A large part of this party has sold it's soul for some corporate cash. The only way we are going to get rid of the corruption in our own party is to not vote for Dems who take corporate bribes.

:kick:recommend
I am not alone.

...

4.) Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

....



See this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2577021

Edwards is expressing this concern in every speech he makes now. I believe he's sincere.

As a result, the MSM pundits are calling him "angry". Same label they slapped on Howard Dean for his opposition to the Iraq War at a time 70% of Americans still backed it.

Dean was right then, and Edwards is right now.

If we get more of them behind us, politicians will follow.

FDR did not run on the New Deal... in fact, if you look at his platform and the first 100 days... they are 180 from each other

And Teddy Roosevelt also betrayed the goals of his run for the Vice Presidency

Senator Sanders reminded me the other day that things can change at the drop of a hat and have done such in the past

my one hope in regard to a possible hillary presidency is that once in office she'll steer the ship of state hard to the left...
except that lots of the congressional Dems would be unlikely to follow or allow that kind of move.

nm

in my scenario, hillary is secretly hiding her intense hatred of the right- due to them telling her to shut up and sit down in regard to her healthcare plan in the early 90's- as well as the shit they and their vast conspiracy put her, and her daughter especially, through over bill's pecadillos- which should have remained a private, family matter.

the dlc is trying succeding to destroy the democratic party from within-

after coming of voting age under carter, and an ensuing adulthood that has endured reagan, both bushes and sometimes-kinda-dem Bill Clinton, i can at least hope and/or fantasize about such a scenario coming to fruition, can't i? :shrug: it's pretty much all i have left.

Excellent point, kentuck.

Thank you.

DR

we need to do this NOW before we have to rally support behind a nominee.

Might be a better question?

my point is that I don't believe you will find many, or any, democrats who think we're headed toward fascism.

What is the point of your own question?

Have you read any of the posts above?

so you're quitting the dems?

Interesting how your mind works.

I was lucky enough to get a phone call from Obama during his Iowa campaign.

He asked me what my most important issues were, and I said that there really was
only one and that was how our Constitution is becoming a relic and our how our
entire system of government is being dismantled before my very eyes.

I expressed my devastation, as I watched Bush illegally wiretap us and trounce on our
Privacy Rights. I told him I was shocked that Habeas Corpus could be set aside so
cavalierly.

I told him how disheartening it was that torture was allowed. I expressed deep
concern about the corporations being tantamount in the political process and that
it felt as if "We The People" were no longer being a part of the equation in forming
public policy.

I said, "I am more afraid of what is happening to our Constitution and of losing
my civil rights, than I am of Al Queda."

Obama's response (and I'm paraphrasing, if I may) was, "You shouldn't have to be
afraid like this in America."

He agreed that what Bush has done is deplorable. He took my arguments further and
said that he was dismayed by the amount of secrecy in the government, and how he
wanted to end all of that. He said that he does not believe in the "Unitary Executive"
mentality that Bush has governed under, nor the signing-statement tactics either.

He assured me that he was just as dismayed as I am.

He also told me that he is a "Constitutional scholar." He taught Constitutional Law
for a decade at the University of Chicago. Unlike our current thug-in-chief--Obama
knows the Constitution inside and out and has profound respect for it. I think it's
wonderful that Kucinich carries a copy of the Constitution in his pocket. Obama has
spent his life teaching others about the importance of the Constitution. He's an
expert in this area.

This is one of the reasons that I support Obama. There are many social issues on which
Dems focus. However, this election is unique because now we understand that many in
government are so corrupt that they decimate our way of government for greed and power.
We have to fix the mess and restore the gifts that our Founding Fathers gave us, because
BushCo has worked hard to tear that foundation down. If we don't have this basic framework,
the all of the other issues--abortion, the environment, education, tax policy--mean absolutely
nothing.

I truly believe that Obama will repair the damage and put our government on the right track--
and give back to Americans what has been stolen from them.

I could hear it in his voice. His resolve and concern for ALL OF US came through loud and clear
on the telephone. I'm just as concerned about this as everyone here, and I'm telling you--Obama
is on the side of "We The People".

You should make this an OP.

can't get the support of enough Democrats to do very well in the polls. I make an exception of Edwards, and we will see if he does well enough in Iowa to win or come in second. If we aren't able to get a majority even in the Democratic party how are we to get a majority in the nation as a whole and ultimately change the course this country is on?

These days I evaluate CANDIDATES and WHAT THEY STAND FOR, not parties.