Dennis just pissed me off.

I love what the man stands for and I can pretty much understand his motives. But his referring his supporters to Obama if he doesn't hit the 15% mark bothers me as an Edwards supporter. Obama's a great guy, but I really believe that Edwards is much more in line with more Kucinich supporters than Obama.


I hope that the Kucinich supporters see through this. JMO

edited for silly typo

:shrug:

I like the man and I'm sure there will never be a candidate that I agree with 100% but this was a surprise.

Why not just give the tip to his precinct bosses and keep it on the down low? It is DK's choice, but why?:shrug:

Or, likes Edwards and Clinton less?

Dennis and Edwards share supporters. Thinking like a politician (which he is) Dennis can see that the better Edwards does -- the better his showing -- the stronger he becomes as a candidate.

BECAUSE they share supporters, a stronger Edwards means a weaker Kucinich. Hence, Dennis is asking those who can't vote for him to please not vote for 'the bear.'

Or I did, but that is (sadly) pathetic and typical.

It was naive of me to expect any more from any politician.

Maybe Obama's record actually looks better than Edwards'? Or Clinton's, for that matter.

I just took the candidate selector test on Kucinich's website, and results were as follows:

65 Kucinich
60 Gravel
40 Obama
27 Clinton
26 Edwards
25 Paul
24 Richardson
23 Biden
21 Dodd
-15 McCain
-23 T. Thompson
-23 Cox
-37 Giuliani
-37 Brownback
-46 Huckabee
-58 Tancredo
-70 Hunter
-70 Romney

I've taken nearly everyone of this sort of test I've found, and Obama (and Clinton) have always finished ahead of Edwards.

http://www.dehp.net/candidate/ In case you want to take it.

I should have said that *if* what Rageneau was saying was correct, I'd be disappointed..

But now he doesn't like Edwards, who has moved steadily to the left over the past 4 years? I don't think these endorsements are about who he wants to win, I think it's strategy. Edwards voters are from the part of the Party in which Kucinich is strongest; he probably sees Edwards as a rival in the same way that Dean was.

:(

Probably not in all precincts or counties. A public announcement is the best way to reach most of his potential supporters. The reason he needs to support somebody else in Iowa is because of the caucus process. If there are not enough Kucinich supporters in a county to award him a delegate then those people need to caucus for somebody else in order to have a vote that counts.

to any speeches in which Obama goes with the heavy "fight corporate" themes used by Edwards and Kucinich.,

We meet at a difficult time for organized labor. A while back, I went to a Maytag plant in Galesburg, Illinois that was moving to Mexico. And I met workers who were having to compete with their own children for jobs that pay seven bucks an hour. A few months ago, I traveled to Newton, where Maytag was shutting its doors after 114 years. One worker who'd been there more than a decade said, "I just thought I would retire from here and never have another job. I'm scared."

I'm scared.

It makes us outraged to hear these stories. And we've been hearing them for a long time. It was stories like these that led me more than two decades ago to walk away from a career on Wall Street and become a community organizer in Chicago, so I could help folks who'd lost jobs and lost hope when the nearby steel plants closed down. I didn't know a soul in Chicago, but I knew I didn't like the idea of working people being laid off and not having anybody fighting for them. I knew I wanted to do my part to make sure they had a decent future.

So when I go to places like Galesburg or Newton, it reminds me why I entered public service. And it reminds me why I'm a Democrat. Because if the Democratic Party means anything, then it has to mean we value labor. If the Democratic Party stands for anything, then it has to stand up for your rights, and your future. If the Democratic Party has a vision for America - then it has to be an America that's working for working Americans.

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/11/13/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_32.php

Maybe Dennis doesn't like JE working for Fortress to "learn about poverty" and investing nearly half is wealth in various hedge funds.

The American worker has a fight on its hands, not a Hallmark Card.

You get the point.

I guess he must've been asked about this by Thom Hartman today... I'll listen to the podcast, I guess.

in 2004 he said Edwards was his closest friend amoung the other candidates. When being interviewed today on MSNBC, he made some reference to him feeling Obama was the most sincere.

dislike Obama , because I do not, it is that Dennis is betraying what he allegedly stands for. I am beginning to see him as a bitter jealous man.This is very sad.It is almost as if he can't carry the progressive banner, he would rather it not be carried by anyone.And, IMHO, that is just wrong and completely unexpected from the Dennis I respected.

Thanks.

I was very strongly towards Kucinich until the bizarre Ron Paul episode which undermined my trust in his judgement and which finally and decisively pushed me (with no regrets) to Edwards.

I think if anything, Kucinich supporters can be described as fiercely independent, even of him and they will probably all already have their #2 in mind since he was always a longshot.

Obama? Still shaking my head over this one. My gut tells me that this must be personal and maybe Edwards didn't try hard enough to broker this deal with him.

from the independent group. I can't help but wonder if he brokered a deal to pass his excess numbers to DK, if DK would publicly voice support for him.

I thought DK would be above that.

BTW, I LOVE that picture of Condi getting comeuppance! Those folks have a lot of bills to pay with the piper!

Glad you like that picture :)

I oppose dirty backroom deals and corrupt backroom deals. But at some point in a representative republic, people powered by votes will sit down and cut compromises. That's why we have a big powerful country instead of a mosaic of feudal states in the middle of North America.

This move really makes me respect Kucinich even more. Good for him, I say!

Maybe Dennis wants to back the other anti war candidate AND not encourage people to look at Edwards for now. On a scale of 1-5, is IA a 1 for DK?

HNY to you!

:hi:

but I'd be completely pissed off if the candidate I supported basically gave up on the eve of the Iowa caucus.

All of the polling I've seen shows that Edwards is the #2 choice of the vast majority of Kucinich supporters. I would hope that doesn't change merely because Kucinich told them who he would prefer they vote for.

to all of the polling you've seen that shows johnnyboy is the #2 choice of the vast majority of Kucinich supporters.

I am calling bullshit.

unfortunately, I can't supply links. I work with the campaign, I've seen physical polls, not online ones.

I've also worked in the field, in Iowa and California and I've spoken to thousands of people. My experience also bears that out. The Iowa Edwards campaign regularly calls registered Democrats and asks them a) who their first choice is and b) who their second choice is. And the results are as I stated.

Fine by me if you don't believe me, I can't help that, but I suppose tomorrow will be rather telling one way or the other.

because that is exactly what you said. You claim you saw all of these polls, but can not verify.

Just pure-tee bullshit.

But you know, just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't true.

Also, I find it obnoxious that you jump to the conclusion that I'm full of shit when you know nothing about me. I don't have a history of posting bogus shit on this board. I'm not a GD or GDP regular. I'm not an Edwards-bot who shows up in every thread and asserts things without backing them up. But go ahead and assume whatever you need to, it makes absolutely no difference to me.

I know what the polls say, and you'll figure it out tomorrow.

for Iowa Democrats.

And sorry, I do not believe the MSM. You might, but I and everyone else that pays attention knows they report propaganda.

Have fun being so naive.

tomorrow night methinks.

Man, I think some of you would switch candidates if they suggested buying a flavor of gum you didn't enjoy.

People who spend their lives looking for the perfect candidate who they can agree with 100% all the time are destined to live unhappy political lives.

as someone else said further up.

:shrug:

Didn't know he was in the Senate at the time.

nt

Why isn't Dennis supporting that?

Nope, it's all a bit too crazy.

What's your point?

"I hope Iowans will caucus for me as their first choice this Thursday, because of my singular positions on the war, on health care, and trade. This is an opportunity for people to stand up for themselves. But in those caucus locations where my support doesn't reach the necessary threshold, I strongly encourage all of my supporters to make Barack Obama their second choice. Sen. Obama and I have one thing in common: Change."

He has no way of compelling anyone of his supporters to vote for anyone other than whom they choose. While he is asking them to vote for Obama, his supporters are free to do as they wish.

his supporters have to go somewhere, right?

Maybe he's finally seen the light on Edwards, one of the most intensely self serving, opportunistic and fundamentally dishonest politicians I've ever seen.

that's becoming clear.

.

That has to be worth a Duzy!

He was paying off his debt from 2004. Simple as that.

nt

Well, I'm one longtime Kucinich supporter who's now gone over to the Edwards camp. I can't stomach either Obama or Clinton.

Sorry, Dennis.

sw

Kucinich has a real record on a most issues that are important to us on the left. He has walked the talk for a l-o-n-g time. Edwards hasn't. He hasn't even come close. He was wrong on IWR. He was wrong on China. He was wrong on Yucca Mountain. He was wrong on mountaintop removal. He was wrong on bankruptcy. He's wrong on the death penalty. I could go on.

Your vote is your own, but I'm going with the guy who's been right all along, and not some slick talking creep whose primary agenda is selling himself for the gratification of his own ego.

It's the brutal truth. Yes, he's absolultely the most progressive candidate running, no question.

Yes, he's absolutely correct on all the issues. But I'm looking at the hard cold reality -- DK will never be nominated.

So I'm stuck with making the best of a fucked up situation. I am categorically opposed to both Clinton and Obama -- which leaves Edwards as my only viable weapon against them.

sw

You're from Minnesota, right? When are your caucuses? And if Edwards is not in the race at that point, would you vote for Kucinich then?

I'm in Kentucky, and we're way late on the slate. I expect Dennis to be on the ballot, and he'll get my vote. If he isn't I probably won't vote.

Why did he even bother campaigning?

by Iowa caucus rules. If he doesn't get it, his supoprters have to align with someone else, usually one of the other candidates, but can also align as uncommitted. Of course, if that doesn't get 15 percent, it's either align with a candidate or go home. Since he isn't likely to get the 15 percent in too many precints, his supporters have to go somewhere. He has recommended Obama for the Iowa caucuses only, and then only when he doesn't have the 15 percent. It's not compulsory for any of his supporters, but it does apparently his preference.

He's still in the race otherwise. I can't figure out his strategy right now cause it's not making sense to me but maybe we'll find out down the line. Maybe he and Obama have cut a deal of some sort.

:shrug:

FYI

Apparently he's angling for an appointment in an Obama administration. He's dreaming if he thinks he'll get a VP slot from Obama: McCain has a better shot at that one.

I just can't believe he would back Obama.. that is weird. what the hell is he thinking??? It is almost a sore loser side...I hate it. I was a huge kucinich fan.. not anymore

I will be backing Edwards.

Obama pissed me off with his OPRAH crap...
I want nothing to do with STARS picking my president.

but sheeesh... who can beat Kevin Bacon...come on...everybody cut... footloose.

That does seem weird.

I hate to say it, but mebbe he's hedging his bets and going for a post?

I've always had an asterisk by men who keep trophy wives.

I too am now an Edwards supporter.

I just think it was really shitty to come out now. It almost makes it seem .... well.. fishy! All this work people have done for Dennis and he is tossing in the towel before they even get to the race.

how edwards says what is the favorite thing in the room, never actually staying with one position. Reactionary is not what we need in a president.

Dennis moved up three notches in my book.

Any true Kucinich supporter knows this is a man of integrity who is a fierce defender of our Constitution. His move to have his Iowa supporters back Obama was a direct result of Edwards trying to exclude Dennis from the debates. He was visibly upset and disillusioned by his "friend" Edwards attempted manipulation of our democratic process. Edwards was my second choice after Kucinch. After seeing him try to rig the democratic debate, and finding out his hedge fund Fortress is heavily invested in Humana, he's lost my vote. I don't trust the guy, and I think Kucinich now realizes he can't trust him either.

I fault his tactics. But he did go with Edwards this way in 2004. It would have looked tired & less inspiring this time to repeat the "Go Edwards second" ploy. But helping Edwards would have improved the chances of embarrassing Clinton, which I suspect is Kucinich's real intent.

But this is politics. What he did is exciting and clever and very American. I love it when he does this. No other candidate has the balls.

Sorry Dennis, I don't know what you're smoking but Obama isn't of the same branch of the Democratic Party as you are. Edwards isn't either, but he's still much closer.

I could maybe understand him saying Edwards but Obama? Count me out if that is my choice.