Do you seriously think the USA is going to elect a black president?

I'm all for it, but truthfully there is too much latent/covert racism in America for that to happen at this time.

We'd all like to think the US is that progressive, but I honestly don't think that's the case.

The USA psyche is still held hostage to racist stereotypes that will condemn an Obama nomination to failure, regardless of the quality or ability of the candidate.

Sorry to be telling you this, but it's the simple truth. If Obama wins the nomination, you will see at least another 4 years of rightwingers in the WH.

bisexuals, transgenders, disabled, american indian, and those I didn't list until we fuckin get them all.

GODDAMNIT.

yes there are still racist/sexist/whatever-ist bastards out there...fuck em...they don't speak for me and will NOT choose our candidates for us.

the repugs voted for him in the caucaus. Now they are saying no Independents in their primary in California

I want rustlers, cut-throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperadoes, mugs, pugs,
thugs, nit-wits, half-wits, dim-wits, vipers, snipers, con-men, Indian agents,
Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bush-whackers, horn-swagglers,
horse-thieves, bull-dykes, train-robbers, bank-robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers,
and Methodists!

GODDAMNIT!!

:)

OMFG!

Cleavon Little is Barrack Obama - Gene Wilder is John Edwards


Harvey Korman is Dick Cheney - Mel Brooks is George W Bush


No I do not mean JRE is a dried out gunslinger IT IS A JOKE

With someone doing an RFK/Benazir Bhutto on him before the election?

I am not wishing anything on anyone, but hypothetically, what happens if a candidate for president who has already gotten the nom, is assasinated? All the momentum is gone, and while the particular party is in disarray, and selecting a new candidate, the momentum is gone, and the other party wins.

Again, not wishing anything on anyone.

why bring it up, unless there are others like yourself that thinks likewise.

I wish no ill-will on any candidate. Personally I haven't decided on a candidate as yet.
at the same time, I will not go with my head in the sand thinking that if I don't say my worst fears, that they won't happen.

What I said before is indeed my worst fears. As I am sure it is for many people. In fact, based on my read of the Obama Campaign, and its need for Secret Service protection earlier than anyone (excepting Clinton, due to unrelated issues), I would say it is a real fear.

Me saying it gives it no more likelyhood of it happening that of not happening. My question is, seeing that more Democrats have been assasinated than Replubicans, what do we DO about it?

"My question is, seeing that more Democrats have been assasinated than Replubicans, what do we DO about it?"

should have been you first. Then I would have had a different approach.

My bad if i was misunderstood.

Lincoln: Republican
Garfield: Republican
McKinley: Republican
Kennedy: Democrat

What was that you were saying about more Democrats being assassinated than Republicans? Or are you also including RFK and Huey Long and not restricting it to actual Presidents?

but I had the same thought. I like what Obama's saying, and all that... and I'll probably be voting for him... but I can't help a cynical worry that he's too appealing. Hillary's taking enough money from the corporations and such that I doubt her life's in danger, but between Obama being black and the real possibility of his shaking up the establishment, especially since he's got the audacity (in a historical political context) to actually suggest he might try to shake up the status quo... well, seems to me that's what got RFK killed. I suppose the real question might be whether or not there are enough neo-con neo-fascist powers out there spookable enough at his electability to actually mount the effort to arrange such an assassination.
I sure hope not.

thats the thing about liberals they are so fucking blind sometimes

You mean....white hetero males are outnumbered? You don't say! :wow:

we out number them there are still idiots that fuck up the pot.

THE FUCKERS. FUCKIN WITH MY POT. Fuckem'

To help Mister Sir stay in power.

:applause:

yet alone an African American must be living on a different planet

Every since Johnson pushed through the Civil Rights Act of the 60's, racists stopped voting for Democrats

We don't need racists to win an election, it is about ideas

hidden racism?

"covert" racism?

If you think there are no American racists who would typically vote Democrat, you're living in a dream world.

because of their position on civil rights if nothing else

thats a new one, soo...people are spying on blacks, latinos, gays, disabled etc just so they can continue their deep rooted hatred WOW!!

I have LOTS of friends like that. They really, really, really do not believe they are racist. To them racism means "hatred" and "legal discrimination". And since they do not hate Blacks, they are just afraid of them in large groups, then by their definition they are not racist.

In theory such people could still vote for Obama since they are convinced they have no problem with individual African-Americans. In reality many of them will find something about him they don't like and vote for his opponent never realizing they are subconsciously looking for an excuse, any excuse, not to vote for the Black guy.

I think he means people who don't even recognize their own racism.

Like 80% of DU and many of the people on this thread.

They say things like "I have lots of black friends" or "he's articulate but inexperienced and besides, we'd never elect a black president" or "we need to enforce immigration laws."

those crying for immigration laws are all racist, what...its not enough for them to impose policies that are racially motivated but to go after the one thing that they think is responsible for all things bad in America....these are the same people that are moving this country forward, doing all the back breaking jobs that the "so-called" Americans don't want to do, sooo with all of them gone who will do these jobs I wonder?

When were all immigration laws revoked? Perhaps you just mean that the current immigration laws should become amendments to the Constitution so that they will be hard to change?

Has CANADA ever had a black PM? Without googling, I can't recall one.

(But carry on with US bashing by all means...)

Especially with regards towards younger people. 97% of people under 30 have no problem with interracial relationships.

And then the red states can go fuck themselves. :D

Now whether or not he's the CORRECT choice this time around, now that's definitely open to debate. I think his belief in "unity" and "bipartisanship" is remarkably naive in the face of the Republican machine. If he loses, it won't be because of his race, it will be because he underestimated the depth of their animosity toward everything Democrats stand for.

:applause:

speaks of going after corporate America, don't you think he is underestimating the power of the right wing? You can say the same for Hillary on health care, goes on and on, change is something that has to get kick started by a LEADER, not a puppet, hence the reason we nominate Leaders.

Somebody has to take fight to these deep rooted racist folks or it will just be business as usual.

I think he KNOWS we're in for a fight. But it's not one we can turn away from...

And the same could be said for Hillary as a woman.

I think most of us are over bigotry and misogyny. Those left in those camps are uber stupid and very, very loud... and thankfully, Los Angeles is very progressive in that regard.

You are not an American voter.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

They're just not U.S. citizens.

It's a sad truth, but the truth none the less.

is not something I would brag about.

Really, nothing personal just engaging in a discussion/debate

maybe.

no matter what woman she is. Is the Presidency only open to ole white boys club of Yalies and those who have bundles of money and those who cannot relate to masses. Just go back and do some research how many Presidents and Vice Presidents were from Yale.

think they are ready for a woman either. Altho she won't have a hard of a time as Obama. Any intelligent person knows that with the racial tensions in the south STILL and being egged on by the republicans for the last 7 years it is worst. The Mid west won't accept him either. New York and the NE and California maybe, but Hillary will win those. I just don't think Obama could make it. The southerns would rather vote republican than vote for Obama. And if you look at all the red in the last election they are pretty much republican any way.

There's a lot of underlying racism and sexism in the voting booth.

what a country. Give up their own best interests to keep corporations running the show.

Blah.

changing, they've just nominated the first ethnic person in Louisiana as Governor although he is republican, that can constitutes as change. The South might just surprise us, even though in my hearts of hearts thats what I would like to see.....well you can never tell.

:shrug:

Maybe if he were married to a white woman...

I am serious.

Condoleezaba Rice has pretty much fucked it up for Black Women.

An Obama nomination would be a disaster of the highest order.

Fence-sitters would stay home and watch "Scrubs" (like my idiot GF is doing right now).

NO WAY

Though sometimes we are manipulated by our own bias, it will be ideas that win the day, especially since the youth will be voting in unprecidented numbers this time

until Reagan came along and gave them all hard-ons.

Those are the voters we need.

And they ain't gonna vote for Obama.

Mudcat is right.

Those racists you refer to will not vote for Hillary or Edwards either. All they need to do is listen to ANY Democratic candidates stand on civil rights, and they will vote republican

This has nothing to do with who our candidate is, it has everything to do with who they are, and we can win very well without them thank you

Learn to listen.

It is not arrogant it is a fact

zell miller is the type of democrat you are referring to, and the party is better off without them

It is those who are arrogant who say an African American cannot be elected

there are lots of zell miller within the democratic party that even things out with the repugs.

When Republicans claim that they were instrumental in the civil rights movement, I have to laugh. They may have been Dems before the civil rights movement and just didn't change their party affiliation fast enough! After all the civil rights legislation, they were furious and became Republicans FAST. I remember. I was there.

We want to court the racist vote? huh?

How about we bring in people that have felt disenfranchised?

I like that idea better than worrying about what the racists are going to think.

as opposed to taking a redeye to Iowa and doing an instant relocation registration?

can you imagine anyone watching that Saccharine Shit?

I am getting rid of her ass in 1.3 seconds...

Or else go jump off the Bridge,

obsessed over the upcoming elections one night?

Still, I don't know how you can't like that adorable Zach Braff!

Or just old and slow...

"Maybe if he were married to a white woman?"

WHAT? What does that have to do with anything?




"Condoleezaba Rice has pretty much fucked it up for Black Women."

How so? She's just one woman, and she certainly isn't representative of black women everywhere.




"Fence-sitters would stay home and watch "Scrubs" (like my idiot GF is doing right now.)"

Why the hell are you dating someone that you have such obvious disrespect for.

The entire post is steeped in contempt and, worse, an assumption that those of us reading it are somehow in tacit agreement with the racist/sexist sentiments he expresses.

I wonder if the poster will answer your queries.

MKJ

Just curious. :shrug:

satisfying his underlying pleasure.

:bounce:

just the same way * lied and cheats to become pResident.

:evilgrin:

one with a 12" RecOrD.

:evilgrin:

anything else would be gilding the lily.

> I'd Settle for Sane and Reasonably Educated and Intelligent and Ethical

You're only supposed to pick TWO out of the FOUR ... more than that
is cheating, controversial and downright un-American!

:hi:

It's those stars in my eyes, doncha know...

Racism is only one factor- the perception of opportunism, naivity and inexperience will play a much larger role.

Powell had the (R) on that one.

Louisiana just elected a non-white governor.

If they could get past racism in Louisiana, why not nationally?

If not now, when? The people who will choose to not vote for Obama because he is black
are the same people who will vote against gay rights and women's rights. We will
not get these votes no matter who is our candidate is. It is time to stop the politics
of fear. Whether we choose a woman, a black or an hispanic, let us choose the person
we believe will change our lives and our country for the better.

We the democratic voters have the opportunity to change American politics forever.
Let's do it!

..many of the people who would vote for gay rights and womens rights would not vote for a black president.

I agree with your sentiment "Whether we choose a woman, a black or an hispanic, let us choose the person
we believe will change our lives and our country for the better." 100%, but my instinct tells me that realisticaly America will not trust a black man with the presidency.

but I think the time is now. We are on the cusp of a paradigm shift. Obama's
persona and charisma supersede race. That is one aspect of his amazing
candidacy. He has the ability to lead our country to a new place where race
is truly secondary to character and issues.

Our country and our politics have been driven more and more from the right by
fear. The deepest message of his campaign is a message of healing, of
bringing us back together as a people. I understand not everybody
hears or appreciates this message. But many of us are so weary of the politics
of division and the way it has torn us apart as a people, we seek the wholeness
that he promises to inspire. I believe it is this message that will reach beyond the
democratic base to the Independents and moderate Republicans and will be
the start of a new political coalition that will realign the politics of this country for
a long time to come.

and many others don't as well. He had his shot at the convention and since then has been REALLY disappointing. And his campaign is all fluff and feel good stuff. People are angry, they are working their tails off and we have dems in office who haven't done ANYTHING that can be seen or felt by the average person. Why do you think their approval rating is so low.

Sorry, but he will come off more "uppity" than real. The white guy who is stuck working at some lousy dead end job, because he couldn't afford college is not going to like him. Just ask some people about affirmative action and see the anger well up. And, yes, even dems, dems who are not at all troubled by gay marriage. As for Colin Powell, he was different, "he worked his way up in the ranks". Colin Powell they admired, not so much for Obama who looks like he got into school on affirmative action.

zalinda

I am not talking about the folks here. Here, we would vote AGAINST republicans, almost no matter what.

But, middle america, per every poll over the last 3 years indicate that Obama is resonating with him. His message of change and hope is hitting the frequency that the angry masses want to hear.

I know lots of "blue collar" folks who like him a great deal. Most of those do not pay close attention to politics. Therefore, their entire frame of reference has to be the TONE of his message and his personal charisma.

We are apparently looking at the same phenomenon through different lenses.
The Professor

I think a little more attention should be paid to the message of 'hope' in this context.

I mean, there's the voting urge to go with expediency, with political realities... and most especially the urge to find someone who can stand up not only to the Republican attack machine in an election cycle, but the capacity of the right wingers to sabotage a naive president once he's (or she's, theoretically) in office. The intelligence machine seems to take a right-wing bend as a rule, and the idea of the inteligence services taking it upon themselves to feed poor intelligence to a president they don't like and who seems naive is only one facet of the possibilities a paranoid (such as myself) can envision coming to pass.

And if you succumb to those fears... then Hillary is the obvious choice. She's seen more of this sort of smear shite than any other candidate.

But then there's that fucking word 'Hope'. Do you, any of you, all of you, some of you... have the hope of actually changing stuff. Do we have the collective cajones to actually vote for someone who seems like he/she might actually try to change things? Do we collectively even really want change?

As I see it, the Republicans have never been weaker, not in the 20 years I've been paying attention... never. Let's face it, the Republican party is in shambles. Whoever wins the Democratic nomination is most likely going to be president. So here's the question, as I personally see it. Do we have the cajones to actually nominate someone who's for change?... or are we so afraid of some mythical Republican machine that we'll vote the safe tough guy (or in this case, safe tough girl), despite the fact that (s)he's an entrenched figure who'll change little, risk little... and in the end will probably just play it safe while the Republicans take their time putting their party back in order?
I mean, if Democrats take the safe bet, and go for Hillary... she's not only, in my opinion, unlikely to try anything that will truly change the system... but she's like a beacon of hatred for the Republicans... a light to galvanize them to re-order themselves for 'battle'.

Not to say I have anything against her. I just have... hope that we could do better.

not enough post to start a thread, but this could probably be one of your first thread.

Welcome to DU!!!

:hi:

Which is why i said what i said.
GAC

Seriously? "...but he will come off more "uppity" than real." How so? He's well educated. He's ambitious. He's accomplished. I guess those things in a black male = "UPPITY!" to some people. Seriously? SERIOUSLY?!

the word "uppity". There is a difference between Obama and Powell. Powell is seen as working his way up the ranks, Obama is seen as someone who was given (affirmative action) his way up. I think that is why so many people both repub and dem had a respect for Powell. I don't see that respect for Obama. I live in a working class, inner city, mixed neighborhood, and this is what I am hearing. And, uppity is a word that I am hearing from black people, not white. And, I'm not quoting the whole term as there is a "n" word in there, and "he won't do s... for us".

zalinda

You may have well called Obama "boy," "darkie," or "n*****."

I've heard him called that, by a black woman who called him an "uppity n*****", and a porch full of people nodded their heads in agreement. This is a church going 30 something black woman married to a white man. She lived next door to me and we became friendly. All during the summer her porch was covered with people on the weekends, she was quite the social butterfly of the neighborhood. Uppity is not a word that I would use describing anyone, well maybe Paris Hilton.

zalinda

then erased it. I should have left it because it addressed these very comments. But, I was actually disturbed by the whole message, and yes... that word is really a bad way to describe how people will view him because of where he is now.

Powell may have had a military career and many more years in his career, but that doesn't mean that Obama got where he is due solely to Affirmative Action. That's so insulting to all black professionals who have worked ambitiously to achieve success at a relatively young age. AA may help them get their feet in the door, but without their own work ethic, ambition and perseverance, Affirmative Action makes no difference. And those who view Obama's successes or position in government as Affirmative Action have a racist world view. Negating the successes of a man because of his color. It's shameful and disgraceful!

That makes a big difference, unless you're just looking to be contentious.

And as for Obama, remember, he's also "clean".

I don't get how the poster truly makes the leap that people will think that Colin Powell is accomplished, but Barak Obama is an "uppity" (quotes noted) Affirmative Action recipient. I will even give the poster that he/she would never consider BO "uppity," but the idea that he/she can see why others would? I honestly do not get how that leap is made... or why it is made. I do think it's inherent racism.

And I say that acknowledging that we're all capable of prejudice. It's an awful fact in our world. And perhaps the poster was lamenting that. But, I never once considered that BO would be considered a recipient of AA or "uppity" by the general population. It's never crossed my mind. Not once. And the fact that it's such a concern to some here really bothers me.

Maybe I'm upset because I truly had hopes that society had progressed more than this thread is making it seem.

should not be voting for someone that has someone anti gay campaigning for them.


Just saying.

Kingsley Shacklebolt were the nominee, he would win. :)

not happy about it - disgusted by it - but there it is

If it is Obama vs. Romney in 08, I guess we will have a president that no one would ever elect president regardless.

might not win ... it's his obfuscated and/or politically expedient positions that turn me off.

However, I'm not willing to concede that Americans, when in the privacy of a polling booth, would NOT vote for someone they truly believed in, JUST because they are black or a Jew or a woman - now, gay, not a chance.

And, I know all about the covert and overt racism/sexism that exists. But, I still believe, from my 50 years of experience on this planet, that when they are not under pressure/the influence of their peers, they tend to vote as they wish - irregardless of race/gender/etc. But, they vote to win.

Meaning, I think they are far more influenced by wanting to back a winner. If they, repeatedly, hear candidate X is projected to win by a landslide, candidate x WILL win by a landslide. Also, unfortunate for the country.

And while, 95% or more of the time, they are not freed from peer influence, even when they are, they may compromise their principles to vote for who they think (due to polls, media, etc.) will win.

Democracy 1.0 needs an upgrade - or at least some major patches.

Went to a new Vet - when I got home my next door neighbor called me. First question out of her mouth "Is he black." I live in Georgia. Racism exists.

:wow:

I tried using words to express my... well, there are no words. "Astonishment" doesn't come close. That's what she asked about your new vet, not whether he was good but whether he's black?

Unbelievable. I have lived such a sheltered life here in the Northwest.

But someone like that wouldn't have voted for a Democrat anyway, right? Or is my sheltered self making assumptions?

You have to start somewhere, and frankly starting with a person who is a Constitutional expert isn't a bad place to start

As far as it being the truth or not, that is your view. Poll after poll contradicts that

Yes this country has its share of racist, but that covers all sides of the spectrum

This election is about ideas. The racist that you refer to will NOT vote Democratic anyway, no matter who the candidate is

I'm not talking about ALL Democratic voters, obviously, but my concern is those who are liberal-minded peace-loving social-concious and yet have an ingrained (and mostly undetected...they may even have black friends) racism due to false stereotypes (ex. blacks are drug addicts, lazy, not responsible) painted on the back of their brains.

views on civil rights. After Johnson passed the civil rights act of the sixties the racist elements started leaving the party, especially elements like zell miller, who used to work for lester madox

Those racists are not Democrats, and the majority of Democrats couldn't care less

ya think?

civil rights legislation, the South moved from voting Democratic to voting republican, helped along with Nixon's scorch and burn policy, and Southern stratedgy

Incidently, I grew up in Iowa in the 50's and 60's. The neighborhood kids were pretty much as you described, polite on the outside, and predjudice when behind the backs of "people who were different"

I also believe that percentage of racism in the Democratic party today is hardly what it was

I would argue that the discussion here at DU, which at times is "hateful", has less to do with racism or sexism, and more to do with over passionate supporters for a particular candidate

anyway, you definitely created a hot thread

why would Collin Powell win and Obama cannot? Why? because he was in the army, goes to show how violent this nation has become, where a President has to come from the military or has some form of military background to become President.

This is where all aggressions toward other nations starts.

for Cheney and company to sell the war. He knows it is best for him to lay low for a long time.

And he is not making race the issue, but ideals.

He is not dividing, but strives to unite.

I won't have to hear that question ever again.

You won't ever mistake me for being an Obama supporter, not after that McChickenhead fiasco, but this bullshit needs to stop. Yes, America is racist as hell, it's also sexist as hell and homophobic as hell and religionist as hell. That doesn't mean we don't run the best person for the job.

I like the fact that we've gotten to the point as a country where the two frontrunners for a major party nomination are a black man and a woman, regardless of how I feel about their positions on the issues.

they wouldn't vote for Edwards or Clinton either. so, yes. Obama could win the election.

would not coincide with someone who wouldn't vote for Obama because of his race

Besides the fact that Edwards isn't black, the concept here is the racism in the USA that extends beyond the sheet-wearing redneck set.

Believe it.

Latent/covert racism in
America. As Obama said, though, black people can't just 'wait our turn'. We have to fight and MAKE our turn, just like during the civil rights era. Otherwise, our turn will NEVER come. Who is to say WHEN America will be ready for a black president? It would take some amazing courage to make such a historical event into a reality. I admire Sen. Obama's confidence. We can't let racists make decisions for us.

Me shell!!

racist has been deciding for the American public for a long time and they are not about to give that up, they are in all works of life as in the media, my main concern for Obama are the Blacks from the South, believe it or not they are the ones that will break him. They are as racist as their white masters.

They don't see Obama as one of them, they see him as an outsider, being that his father is an African, you know that despicable culture.

for now. If he gets the nom, I'll be behind him all the way, same as any of our candidates.

First choice? Hillary
Second? Biden
Third Richardson
Fourth Dodd
Fifth Obama
Sixth Edwards

You forgot the name. Good luck with that. He can't win. And I am NOT a racist. I am however a realist.

probably should not be voting.

I will never understand how such people come up with such simple 'logic'.

that have been changed just because they don't want to be recognized, do you know how many NAZI sounding name are in the Senate and Congress? Do you? ?

and slavery will be with us forever. Seriously. :eyes:

Did you vote for Rice?

And is the abolition of slavery akin to voting for a black president?

Are you really diminishing the abhorance of slavery in that fashion? God I wish not.

Isn't that what you're advocating?

The cotton industry took a terrible hit after the Civil War because there was no more free labor. Shame, wasn't it? :eyes:

a few years ago who was odds on favorite going into the election,(I voted for him), who lost the election to a republican white guy. Everyone said it was an unwillingness to vote for him when the voter finally was alone in the poll booth.
I think that this must have been the only way he could have lost. It was before electronic voting.

I am not going to vote for Obama in the primary but if he wins and loses in the general election, I think that maybe that kind of bigotry is still there.

Tom Bradley lost by an estimate of one vote per precinct in Calif.We still have it.

You never know until you give the people a chance.

the racism inherent in your original post, anyway

Because your topic is insulting and your motives are transparent.

Nah, couldn't be that.

:eyes:

Apparently some Canadians don't want to acknowledge racism either.

Nobody can have the opinion that the USA isn't going to vote in a black president (at this time) unless they're racist?

Yeah, ok. Sure. Nice try, I must admit, but you fell flat on your face there.

EDIT: Looks like it got 10 recs afterall. Now what? Those 10 folks are racist?

more than any other, but he's also thee smartest, stablest , most socially concious, environmentally concious, etc.

I realize he's not likely to hit it, so I would as a second choice go with Hillary or Edwards, based on electability.

My nightmare is another Republican WH.

president" and then act like, "Oh, I'm all for it" when I doubt they are. If not now--when? Those who don't want a black president won't vote democratic anyway.

:eyes:

About as transparent as it gets.

OP is being genuine.

Which Obama is.

Star quality works in the US these days. We are a shallow bunch. Obama looks good. Oprah likes him. There are plenty of African American celebs around now. Obama fits in with that concept. I think it is doable.

Talked to a couple of older white people who said they'd vote for him over any of the current Repukes.

Not to say that racism isn't alive and well, but those whom it affects aren't going to vote for a Dem anyway.

As soon as the right person runs at the right time.

A black man named "Barack Obama"? Whose middle name is Hussein? Not so much. :shrug:

on top of having very little experience...

no way.

being young and inexperienced.

Granted, there will be racists (not all white, BTW) who wouldn't vote for an African-American, but there will be others (and lots of them will be white) who will vote for Obama BECAUSE he's bi-racial/"black." It would feel good to most Liberals to finally have a woman or a person of color as President. But, that doesn't mean that either Obama or Clinton is the best person for the job.

Coming from a long line of southern and mid-western fundamentalist Christian bigots, my life history tells me I'll not see a President Obama. No, I am neither a Christian or a bigot, I am a realist. All I want is an honest, moral and intelligent person in the white house. I don't give a hoot what color, religion or sex that person may be. I'll vote Democratic regardless, but I'm not the one that needs convincing. I hope I am wrong in my gut feeling.

a white Democrat either.

If I felt that Obama was the right person for the job, I wouldn't worry about "losing" the Christian Fundamentalist vote we're never going to get anyway.

Nor will they elect a woman.

even and because he is a DLCer or Corporatists.

(or is it paraphrase :shrug: )
obama isn't really a black guy- he's more like a white guy dipped in caramel.

Just sayin'

He is not my favorite candidate, Kucinich is. But I think Obama really has a shot. He comes across presidential and sincere. (Some of his campaign staff could use some lessons in tact, but staffers for all the candidates make errors from time to time.)

I don't believe that Obama has less of a chance than Clinton or Edwards. I think he has a lot more of a chance (sadly) than Kucinich.

I've been phonebanking for Obama since May. I've made thousands of phone calls to people both Democrat and Independent. I've heard, in all that time, two people say he couldn't win because he's black. Most people my age are reminded of JFK when they see him, and especially when they hear him speak. Here's to hope in a cynical age, my friends.

Yeah, there are racist freeper scum out there, but there are more decent people and thank heaven for that.

For every creep, there are hundreds of good people out there.

It's also possible this country's still too misogynist to elect a woman.

There's only one way to know for sure.


I know this, too: pandering to the racists and misogynists by letting them choose our candidate pre-emptively makes their repellent "work" that much easier, and I don't want any part of that.

But that's not why I'm not supporting Obama in the primaries ... more so his willingness to compromise with the crooks who've been running this country into the ground. Bill Clinton did the same thing. He'd start from the middle, and then compromise to the right, leaving us with mid-right, mid-conservative policies. Obama and Hillary would both likely do the same. I'm all for (some) compromise ( if absolutely necessary ), but let's at least start from the left ( the farther left the better ) and then compromise in the middle. You don't start out Mr. Middle-of-the-Road Nice Guy, and expect to end up in a good place. Road kill more likely.

And for what it's worth, this country cannot survive another Republican President appointing three more Supreme Court Justices.

Let's nominate the most electable, the strongest fighter, and the most Progressive of the top three. Let's nominate John Edwards !!

I would like to see a progressive President, but I have to be real and understand thats not going to be possible, our bigoted friends and foe within the Democratic party has made it more difficult for a progressive President, the only way I can see it happening is by disguising ones ideology.

Pandering to racist fears. Good job. You should be proud of yourself.

I hate these topics that point out the "inherent racism" of America.

Are there still racists? Yes. Is America still an "inherently racist society"? No.

I'm hearing from lots of Repubs that they are going to cross over and vote for Obama mainly as a vote against Hillary!

I have a very redneck racist son who lives here in Georgia and he is going to vote for Obama. I didn't raise him to be a racist, but when he was 12 years old, he moved to Mississippi to live with his father. Since then he has lived in Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia.

title in a Time article

With *co's "Terra, Terra, Terra", and the views on Muslims, his name is not going to go over well in most of the US. Yes, I realize that he is not muslim, since when has that had anything to do with it with most of the uninformed population of the US.

Still too much racism and bigotry in this country.

I bet we'd be stunned by the number of Democrats who are opposed to having a person of color in the White House.

I was looking for that missing race card

Of course, they're really just criticizing the racism of others, doncha know...

:sarcasm:

If Obama is the Dem nominee, he will win.

My impression of racism generally is that, no, die hard "I don't like black folk" racists aren't going to vote Democratic anyway.

But the more popular form of racism, the more insidious and general form of racism, is not a matter of wearing a white hood and thinking "I hate n---ers".

It's much more specific than that. Obama isn't one of "those gang kids" that the school district wants to put in the suburban schools near my house with my kids. Obama isn't the "shifty teenager" who has been hanging out with my daughter. Obama isn't the "suspicious character" walking on the sidewalk near the parking garage, who I think might follow me inside and mug me.

Now, heck yeah, it turns out that all of those "gang kids", "shifty teenagers", and "suspicious characters" are all black, but nobody who spends their time worrying about "those people" runs around wearing a T-shirt that says "I'm a racist". If you call them a racist, they will be quick to tell you how much they liked Bill Cosby, Sammy Davis, Martin Luther King... you know... the "good ones".

And that's what some folks detected in the Biden "clean" and "articulate" thing, although if you know Joe, you also know that what folks thought they heard wasn't really there...

He's not one of "them" - He's one of the "good ones". And, IMHO, THAT sort of racist would actually be INCLINED to vote for Obama just to be able to say, "Hey, I'm not a racist. I even voted for Obama."

Al Franken nailed this thing years ago - Oprah would win, hands down.

Same with homophobia, I think.

You can look at it as a positive development, pointing to a liberalizing (at least on racism and homophobia) population.

Or you can look at it as a negative development: even this late in history, race plays a factor in who America votes for.

If you're Barack Obama, you can figure you'll have another chance down the road.

Do you actually know many people over 35, kid?

I just turned 63. I look like my avatar.

None of MY same-aged friends are racist and homophobic, and I'm sure you're not racist and homophobic, Amanda, but there is a generation gap on these things. The country is turning more tolerant, I believe, but it takes time to work through the generations. That's all I was saying. And I suspect you'd agree.

Now: Aren't you going to ask me where's my hall pass?

at least in this neck of the woods!

where we dont even acknowledge we are sexist when we are.

regardless, i would prefer hrc over obama.

but you're absolutely correct when you say that an Obama nomination will give us another 4 years of rightwingers. He's a beautiful & intelligent person, but at this terribly- divisive, nasty time, it's a pipedream to imagine him winning the presidency.

about it.

I'm so glad Obama and Clinton are running. They're both much too conservative for me but their campaigns are important to countering this "current political climate".

It's important for them to step up & get themselves familiarized with the public. The time may not be right for either one, but just as people fought against segregation, it's the familiarity between races that formed friendships, making segregation a true success.

School integration, for example, mostly worked as it did in Jenna. The black schools were shut down, and black kids weren't very welcomed in the white schools. The black community was disrupted and dispersed without gaining all that much access to the resources in the white enclaves. It's a long slog to pull people out of their fear and ignorance and misplaced anger.

changing my username to "Rosanne Rosannadanna", sfexpat.



I meant to say "integration" in my previous post but said "segration" instead; I think you understood that, thank goodness. On days that I don't have much time to spend at DU, I would do better just reading instead of posting. :)

Obama has won the Iowa caucuses & I congratulate him for winning over the Iowans. :toast:

And we are never going to move forward by never challenging anyone to think or behave differently. I think you have just made another timeworn excuse for not expecting change for the better of our fellow citizens. I'm with xultar--keep putting those candidates out there as a choice, and I think this nation is more than ready for real change.

.

Obama will win.

I believe that if Obama is the nominee, the racist reaction from the republicans will be loud, nasty and hateful. To the point of them turning a lot of people off and self destructing.

The only part I am unsure of is how Obama would react. He keeps talking 'unity' which you ain't gonna get from republicans. To believe that republicans will join him singing Kumbaya is absolutely ignorant. Everything that holds repulbicans together is based on bigotry. They hate muslims, they hate liberals, they hate Mexicans, they hate Immigrants, they hate homosexuals, they hate all christians who are not rapture cultists, they hate the French, they hate everybody who isn't a narrow minded bigot and they are paranoid xenophobes. There is no, 'unity' with these people and if Obama believes there is, he is in for a rude awakening.

Having said all that, I do believe that their racism would be so overt, loud and viscious that they would implode and I love watching the right collectively implode, it's my hobby.

people take a chance.

'Sorry to be telling you this, but it's the simple truth. If Obama wins the nomination, you will see at least another 4 years of rightwingers in the WH.'

stereotypes that people think of when they say "black".
He is just another man to most people. I think people see him as someone to look up to because of the things he says and the way he says them. He is clearly, far more intelligent than the average Joe and I think that has an effect on people..

But there are an awful lot of racists in this country, so... I don't know.

and Independents for this country to elect a black or woman President at this time.

They'll be crawling out from under their rocks in droves to ensure that Barack or Hillary do not become President.

Thing is, and correct me if I'm wrong, the MSM hasn't figured out in any substantial way how to tap into the femaphobia and the racism angle so they haven't been able to make Obama's blackness or Hillary's femaleness a central issue. Hell, they haven't even gotten much of a tittering gossip circle going around it. So, while I think Obama is too green and too willing to bend to the bullies, his blackness seems to be less of an issue or they just haven't found their purchase point yet, but I trust the MSM to dive for the lowest angle and the trashiest and most useless gossipy crap they can dig up.

My southern elderly (white) aunt is hoping she can vote for Obama! And I wouldn't exactly she she's very progressive. She's been a repub since the Reagan days.

(Although he's my second choice, I would happily vote for him.)

mostly republican father has bought both of Obama's books and he would vote for him in a heartbeat.

A heck of a lot of anger and frustration borne of the bush years and bush abuses - and every last one of the major GOP candidates promises policies that look exactly like those of Bush. I think pocketbook anxieties and flat out frustration/anger might over rule latent racism. Exact same thing per Hillary.

Plus he is too inexperienced which is magnified by his youthful appearance, just too many negatives not mention the name and the coming Muslim smear from the radical right.

Some anti-Obama threads started by you since October:


Obama plays the race card. Nov 3, 2007

Did Obama lose anyone here today with his attack on Al Gore & blaming left for US division? Jan 2, 2008

Obama seems to be falling behind. Is the USA not ready for a black POTUS? Oct 7, 2007



So you see, when you pop up today and start chirping, as though butter wouldn't melt in your mouth:

Do you seriously think the USA is going to elect a black president? I'm all for it, but truthfully there is too much latent/covert racism in America for that to happen at this time.

We'd all like to think the US is that progressive, but I honestly don't think that's the case.

The USA psyche is still held hostage to racist stereotypes that will condemn an Obama nomination to failure, regardless of the quality or ability of the candidate.

Sorry to be telling you this, but it's the simple truth. If Obama wins the nomination, you will see at least another 4 years of rightwingers in the WH.

... it sounds awfully disingenuous.