Today, I'm switching my support from Edwards to Obama, and signing up...

in New York to canvass for him in Brooklyn, Queens and Harlem. It would be absolutely wonderful to defeat Clinton in her own state. That would put a stake through the heart of the corporatist vampire that is sucking the blood of the Democratic Party!

If we can energize the African American vote behind Obama, it's all over.

What a dream! Obama wins in New York!

Hillary than who wins the democratic nomination.

In Tweety's case he just wants a weaker than Hillary opponent to the GOPer - he hopes McCain - that he wants to win.

Every single Democratic candidate except Hillary is equally fantastic. But (1) Hillary, in an attempt to appear "macho" as the first female president, will prolong the war, (2) Hillary has already signaled that she will let the Bush regime depart without any accountability, and (3) a Hillary presidency is another step toward the establishment of dynastic Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton politics in the U.S., which might mean a Bush in 2012 or 2016.

Stopping Hillary is indeed the most important task for progressive Democrats. I thought Edwards was the vehicle to do that (and his views, along with those of Kucinich, most closely reflect mine), but as an African-American, I'm astounded and thrilled by Obama's ability to attract mainstream white voters, which means a sea change in our racial political culture.

Now that Hillary isn't "inevitable" I think we can expect to see African American voters swing behind Obama!

I'm not a fan of Obama, but unlike Hillary I can vote for him in the general - however I think there will be very little change with an Obama presidency - because I think he is a corporatist - on a personal level since I have three beautiful bi-racial nephews I think Obama would be a great role model for them - BUT I haven't seen any substance just CHANGE CHANGE we're not red states we're not blue states we're the United States blah blah blah - that was good ONCE now its just tired.

But more important than all that and my biggest fear since I live in VERY RACIST Central FL is that when the rupunks start on the Hussein middle name, the madrases education and other subtle racist themes and if McCain is the repunk nominee which looks VERY likely to me now - that we will lose BIG TIME - oh and lets not forget the voting machine - Obama will NEVER carry Florida

Hope I'm wrong....

:shrug:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3940909&page=1

that is what I was referring to....

Who? David Duke?

catches it?

I'm going to support both Edwards and Hillary with $$$

Hillary is not a corporatist? And Obama is one in disguise?

O Rly?

I like fairy tails.

It's about trashing Obama.

Hillary has had six years to tell the truth and all she's done is play mob lawyer and cover for vicious murderers. She belongs in prison frankly.

a pretty description of hillary's actions over the last 5 years. Prolly doesn't hurt her pocketbook, either, that she has all that defense industry bettin' on her "inevitability".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/10/17/defense-industry-embraces_n_68927.html

a whole and not just one voting block.

:thumbsup:

But the question is who is in the best position to (1) win the primaries, preventing a Clinton restoration, (2) win the general and (3) change our racial political culture.

That's Obama. But I would be thrilled if Edwards wins as well.

Anybody remember the results of the '04 Caucus? Iowa is responsible for 1% of total delegates. Much as I don't want HRC elected, that doesn't mean I want to see Edwards dumped by the wayside. He came in second, after all. Let's see what happens in NH (at least) and on Super Tuesday.

If Obama feels pressure from Hillary's campaign returning later, and still sees a large block of voters sticking with Edwards, perhaps he'll feel the pressure to take off the "stealth corporatist" hat and be more vocal about the same things that Edwards has. I still like Edwards better for having being the initial top tier candidate to advocating decent grass roots populist stances we belive in, though also one certainly needs to give credit to DK to setting the table to start with. But if Obama were to suddenly get more of a grass roots bent into his campaign (especially if he's feeling pressure from Hillary in later primaries), that might bring over some folks from the Edwards campaign later to join forces. Before I'd consider jumping onto his campaign, I'd like to see him "update" his campaign to be more consistent with what John's pushing and publicly announce that he's "come to recognize" the importance of taking these stances which is what the Democratic base wants and is getting from Edwards.

Perhaps him making more public and really heavily campaign and promote his cosponsorship of the Senate bill that's currently in the mix on public campaign financing, and not just use it to "posture" as it appears he's doing now with being a consponsor of it, but doing absolutely nothing to move it forward or talk about it on his campaign. Bringing that effort of his to the forefront in a meaningful fashion would be a good way to "transition" to stances that Edwards supporters could support. Kind of like the way Gore started to transition more to being a grass roots candidate midway into the 2000 campaign, though he'd already been hurt by earlier "stuffy" political consultant scripted appearances, etc. and taking Lieberman as his running mate. Of course this time around we won't let the DC consultants let such a grass roots campaign "die" without a fight when they left the recount fights out to dry.

If nothing else, having three strong candidates continue to work towards the end, might give us a split convention, and that might lead to a brokered convention where we might be able to persuade Al Gore to get into the race at that point, which would be my dream come true.

I'm sticking with Edwards too - :thumbsup:

Between the same two. I just haven't settled on which one.
The Professor

It's great having several to choose from.

My primary is in May. A lot may possibly change by that time. A Hillary win in both the primaries and general election will kill off the progressive movement. Progressives will be in a quandry.

that's the problem with the supervillain model.

Getting voters out is an art of leadership.......

What Obama did tonight was to show his opponents something that most of us hadn't counted on. Obama turned out voters in Iowa in numbers that made his opponents realize that Obama is bound for the history books, one way or another.

The waves of new voters, many of them the (so called undependable) youth, although often discussed by the media, showed up at the right time and stayed on cue. They did not simply show up to vote, they showed up to caucus; something that requires that much more time and determination. The Iowa caucuses have been known for the exclusivity to those who "invest" themselves in their politics. Tonight, thousands showed up to participate for the first time in having their say. This feat, that we will appreciated the more we think about it, and as we see it repeated over and over again in other primary states, has made many finally see the profound effect this articulate quiet warrior could have in our electoral politics, and for the Democratic party.

Not only did Obama showed evidence of his moniker, "The Agent of Change" by changing the landscape of the Iowa caucuses, he showed that he could deliver. Iowa caucus statistics are proof that what Obama did was not simply talk; he inspired to action.

so that we can win a large majority......in both houses of congress...

and then he ends the Iraq War
Gives us health Care
appoint rational nominees to the FCC
Close corporate loopholes
investigates what happened that led to war in Iraq
Talk to countries that we are currently not talking to
work to reform our electronic voting system.....to make sure that there is a paper ballot
Appoint progressive Supreme court justices....

and on and on and on........

And so, it is not simply what he's gonna do, it's the fact that he will be able to get it done, instead of shouting about what needs to change from the bleachers!

When you can't get elected, you can't change shit.
Obama showed tonight how he can get that done....

When I compared Obama's and Edwards' speech...... I heard Obama speaking about we the people and how we can change what is broken, and what America could be and should be. He spoke of being the person that could help us find our way, and that he had the wherewithall to get it done (like when he mentioned his work on healthcare in Illinois) solve those issues. He also spent time thanking his many volunteers and recognizing their hard work, noting that he understand what it takes, cause that is where he started (community activism and the vote project). No, he didn't give a policy rundown, but none of them did. He inspired by proposing to lead with the attitude that we are all in this together...and then enumerated as to what the goals we could reach (a better future for our children, a cleaner earth for them, energy efficiency, etc...) based on the attitude that we should adopt as Americans.

In contrast, I saw Edwards speaking about all of the problems that plague America (don't think he mentioned Iraq) giving us a few tear jerking detailed examples (the girl who died, etc...)but only offered meager solutions...saying instead that we would do this, without any other specifics whatsoever.

Barack's was inspirational because it made you understand that the future is now, and that anything is possible when we work together. Edwards' speech for me was much more of a downer....because he focused on the problems for longer than he did in lifting us up as to what the solutions might be.

Barack's speech was more visionary, IMO. Plus, I like Obama's mannerism much more. He appeared more authentic, serious, confident and calm, and in control. With Edwards, it appears that the microphones were as important as the audience....as he kept adjusting them in an odd manicured way.

The fact that Edwards didn't bother to congratulate Obama was not one of his best decision as it only showcase that he hates to lose. And the fact that he actually didn't bother to thank those who worked for him there in Iowa, including Unions was quite surprising.

Anyway....guess that why I'm an Obama supporter, hey? :hi:

ps. Plus Edwards has a funding problem that nothing can cure....even if he won the primary. He can only spend 51 million....of which he has already spent 1/2...and he would be forced, by law, to wait until August 29th before any more funding would come his way. He'll be out of money by super tuesday, and then would still have to hold up with virtually nothing through the rest of the winter, spring and the summer. Kerry spent 241 million in his primary, and george Bush who was uncontested spent 255 Million attacking Kerry.

http://www.rollingstone.com/nationalaffairs/index.php/2007/09/28/trippi-oping-out-of-public-financing-would-leave-nominee-like-dukakis-getting-the-living-shit-kicked-out-of-him-all-summer-long

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/72335 /

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/2/125557/813

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/1/19133/0902

You should repost it as an OP!

Good on ya!

and edited especially for your Op question. Thanks!

And Welcome to the Obama camp. We will only be growing as time goes on.

:hi:

Jan 4, 2008 12:37 AM

Chapel Hill, North Carolina – Senator Edwards released the following statement after calling Senator Obama to personally congratulate him on his victory in the Iowa caucuses:

"Earlier tonight, I called Senator Obama to congratulate him on his victory in the Iowa caucuses. Tonight's results shows how clearly the American people are sick of the status quo and ready for a president who will fight for the bold change America needs.

"I would also like to extend my best wishes to Senators Biden and Dodd and thank them for their service to our country. They ran impressive campaigns focused on the real issues that matter most to hard-working families, and I have faith that they will continue to work to build the better America we all believe in."

http://www.johnedwards.com/news/press-releases/20080104-edwards-congratulates/

and that is when folks are watching. It is a gracious thing to congratulate the winner in the actually speech...not in a press release hours later. Makes it an afterthought and gives the appearance that one really didn't want to do it.

Plus, he didn't thank his organizers, etc.

I thought that was not appropriate for John Edwards not to acknowledge those who helped him get to 2nd place, no matter how much they like and support you! :(

must be that son of a mill worker's upbringing where he didn't get to learn his manners from the Ivy League.

I cannot feel down and out by Obama's obviously historical win last night in Iowa. I have lived through enough presidential campaigns to know when the tipping point occurs, or doesn't occur. In several past Dem campaigns, there were messages of change, but the follow up was tragic (McGovern for instance). I don't see that now. Bush and the Republicans have used up their time, space and oxygen in the political universe. It's over. Obama last night looked and sounded electrifying. I keep thinking of JFK, my first vote for president. However, I don't think Obama will have nearly as thin a margin as JFK had. If Obama can bring out the young voters, women and Independents across the country the way he did in rural, white Iowa, there is no telling what he can do in the General.

You have nailed it pretty well, Frenchie. Brava!

New hampshire is next. We shall soon see what happens there.

And it's not that I love John Edwards less. But if this is indeed a tipping point, it can be good for all of us and I think us Edwards folks can be assured that our voices will not be frozen out on such issues as health care and foreign policy. It is very comforting to me, actually...

rethugs loaded the Iowa Dem caucus. to eliminate those they feel would give them a defeat in the GE.
now they are supporting Edwards as they have his number. Hillary too.
I do not trust rethugs at all.

even when one removes the GOP who caucused last night, Obama still won.

Look at the stats.

Edwards did not win the liberal vote.
Edwards did not receive the youth vote
Edwards did not receive the women's vote
Edwards did not receive the urban vote
He won the conservative democratic vote.
Probably because those are the ones who
feels he fits the image that they feel
safe with!

Barack Obama's victory was mighty impressive. Not only did he win by a pretty solid margin, 38% vs. 30% for both Clinton and Edwards, but he won in virtually every subcategory. He won among both men and women; he won among Democrats, independents, and Republicans; he won among every income group; and he won among people most concerned with economy, the war, and healthcare.

As far as Hillary, same story:
Hillary lost tonight to Barack Obama by 8 points -- a margin just as wide as Mitt Romney catastrophic shortfall against Mike Huckabee. And Obama beat her eight ways to Sunday . He edged her out among Democrats 32/31, and cleaned her clock among independents (44/17) and wayward Republicans (41/10). He beat her among people making less than $15,000 (37/30) and more than $100,000 (41/19). He beat her among health-care voters (34/30) and suburban voters (30/25). Most astounding however, he beat her among her core supporters, women, by five points .


http://tailrank.com/4485647/Election-Center-2008

let me sulk for a few days...

I believe that it is not a pleasant experience, what you are going through. I experienced it in 2004, and it was not fun at all.

notion that Edwards could not find it in his heart and vision last night to thank his volunteers, Iowa, and to congratulate Obama spoke volumes to me about how utterly unsuited he is likely to be to actually GOVERN ... that flaw was too telling - and not in a good way for me .......

thanks!

:pals:

will do across time, so I think you're deserting a little quickly.

odd way to pick a candidate, but to each his own, right?

That is a little disturbing.

Since Biden dropped out, I'll be voting for my second choice (Edwards) and let the chips fall where they may. I think he still has a great shot.

All of the candidates are great, except Hillary, and all, except Hillary, will restore the Constitution and end the war. Hillary is the only candidate who is saying pretty much outright, that she won't.

Because all the candidates except Hillary are great, my support is basically strategic.

I didn't really "get" Obama till his interview on Tavis Smiley's show. Smiley said, if African Americans come out in the numbers with which they have historically supported African American progressive Democrats, then it's basically over.

Until today, African Americans were supporting Hillary largely because she was considered "inevitable." She isn't. Many were also very pessimistic about white people electing a black president.

But Obama proved something historic yesterday. It's amazing. Now if Black Americans turn out for him the way they turned out for Jackson, it's basically over, in both the primaries and general.

It's going to be either Edwards or Obama. I would be thrilled with either. Heck, I'd be thrilled with Biden, Richardson or Kucinich.

But Hillary is a disaster in the making for the country, the Constitution and the party.

I always have liked your posts....so you are good company to keep! :hi:

I have always liked Obama. my only hangup was experience. My number one issue is Healthcare. Obama is our only chance at reforming Insurance. Hillary and edwards will mandate Health insurance. If people cannot afford it now how will they when it is mandatory like cars. rates sure as hell never came down when that mandatory theft came about.

I pray Obama does not get caught up in the $$$ insurance will throw at him to pay him off. like they have already done to hillary and edwards.

just won't work. The young will opt out and they are generally the healthiest segment of our population. Older, sicker people will make up the health care universe and it will be awfully expensive without theyoung paying their share. Everybody pays in and everybody gets covered. I don't get to opt out on my city taxes because I've never had to call the fire dept. or the police dept. I don't get to opt out of the taxes I pay to support food stamps even tho I've never been unfortunate enough to need them. It's like that.

Whatever, it's your vote.

corporations. But good luck with that anyway.

I know that John Edwards suggested that he will fight for us, but how?.......
since Edwards' solution to everything seems to be to fight! Like how will the "fight" occur? What's Edwards gonna do, put on his boxing gloves?

No...Edwards speaks of changing things via the bully pulpit.

But Obama has the advantage in terms of effectiness at the bully pulpit. The difference with Obama is that when he speaks, folks actually get inspired to do something....like speak via the ballot box; getting out and voting!

What's Edwards Bully pulpit instructions gonna be other than that? Or does he propose we "fight" literally? In the streets...?

In otherwords, Edwards talks like he's got solutions to issues....but in reality, he has no more then does Obama. Edwards has proposals like Obama does, but the difference is that Obama can speak softly and carry a big stick, while Edwards will have to twist arms and try to kick some ass. But in the end, how's that gonna work; kicking ass, I mean? It ain't.

Edwards = Lotsa promises via declaring war at the bully pulpit
Obama= Losta vision via effective bully pulpit strength.

He rarely, if ever, touches on things that matter.

Your hatred of Edwards deafens you.

Yeah well... if that's what you think helps...

As I've said over and over in this thread, Edwards is a great candidate. If he takes the lead, I will gladly support him.

As I've said over and over again, we have an embarassment of riches in terms of candidates -- with the exception of Hillary, who I believe is extremely dangerous for our Democracy and for the lives of our troops in Iraq.

I don't understand why these concepts seem mutually exclusive to so many DUers.

:shrug:

WAY early, actually, IMHO.

New York votes February 5 (moved up from March earlier this year). What I was getting at is, that if Obama maintains the momentum, I would be inspired to canvass for him in New York City.

We have a very large, concentrated African American population in central Brooklyn, southeast Queens and upper Manhattan. Many are immigrants or children of immigrants, as well (West Indies, Africa). It's possible to get people to start considering the possibility of voting for the first black president. In fact, as it becomes possible, many African American voters are going to not want to be left out of participating a potentially historic primary election. (No one will want to look back and say, gee, I didn't vote for him.)

I was listening to the news talk radio this morning, and it seems that many, many Black New Yorkers have shifted over night.

Imagine if several tens of thousands of African American New York City voters shift from Hillary and Edwards to Obama. Suddenly, it's possible.

Until today, New York was written off for Hillary. If Black New York shifts, suddenly it's a whole new ball game.

that changes things. Sorry, I thought you'd already made the decision based solely on the results from Iowa.

Despite a lot of what seems to be nit picking the differences here, they are on the same page on the three things that matter most: restoring the Constitution, ending the war, and fixing health care.

Hillary is not on board for those issues.

Therefore, my support for Obama (or Edwards) is largely strategic: Who is in the best position to prevent Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton... for the rest of my life.

I don't get your "aha". It's not like I'm hiding it or something. But if it helps:

I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates

Look at your own goddamn OP, eh?
"Today I am switching..." Maybe the emphasis will help you see where you went wrong in expressing yourself. Cause later you changed your tune to "if his momentum blah blah blah".

I'm sorry you seem to have trouble communicating your thoughts effectively, but that childish bullshit you just posted is way fucking out of order.


And uh... healthcare? Edwards is better than Clinton and Obama on that VERY important issue.

We are both subjects and objects of history. I can participate, but if Obama fails, he fails.

I will, starting as soon as possible, begin canvassing for Obama. If at some point before February 5, it seems hopeless in New York, I will canvass for Edwards.

Why does that enrage you so much?!? I like them both. I realize that some people have strong feelings for one or another candidate, but as between the two of them, I think they're both great!

Why does that get you so angry?

:shrug:

You changed what you said in your OP so that it made sense. Fine.


What pissed me off was this:

I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates
I'll repeat once more: both Obama and Edwards are fine candidates

ad nauseam.

a peace offering so to speak!

My fuse is practically non-existent today.

Peace. :)

bygones -- OK -- peace!

Sorry if it pissed you off.

:blush: :hug:

so now it's between Edwards and Obama. I'm leaning Edwards because I LOVE his message and Obama is waaaaay too moderate for my taste. It looks like I'll have to make a decision soon. There's nothing I would like more than to see an AA as our president or a woman, but Hillary is out of the question for me. She should have changed her stance on the war...big, HUGE mistake on her part. She should have apologized for that STUPID IWR vote! BIG, HUGE mistake. Edwards has the message I like the most and if he survives until Feb.5, I will probably vote for him...not that it will matter in Illinois though. Obama will kick ass here.

From one vampire to another.

See this thread and take a crash course on what Ziggy, Lake, Korb et al have been up to over the past 30 years.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2584691&mesg_id=2584691

I'm not certain that he will battle Clinton directly here.

I think the primary is February 5.

All the others are so discussed and important, but the NY primary is rarely discussed. Plus, I didn't grow up here, so I had no clue whether there was a primary.

He's organizing in Harlem. I'm backing Edwards but I agree, Obama is magic. That was the most eloquent speech I have ever seen in my life. Truly inspiring.

He was a great guy if we're talking about the same person!

And he is an awesome guy, just a really great guy. I can forward you an email with info if you pm me.

as well. he isn't as much of one as Hillary but the element is there.Big business loves him. You can never have really cared about what Edwards represents and do this. I will not post what word would describe a candidate supporter such as you. Good luck with your scheme.

:eyes:

That's the part that gives me hope. Candidates have to bend to have a certain viability, but in the end we will find out what he's really made of. The country could do worse, and yes being black could actually become an asset.

For now, I'm backing Edwards, but like you, I can more than accept the reversed result. But you and Red Queen remind me of why I like this place. In the end, we are in this together. The place has become so testy! Good luck to you, and thanks for caring and giving your time.
:hi:

:kick:

Pretty short sighted, I think.