Can we all agree that we need Dennis in the race?

Even if we have to end up nominating somebody blander and more porous, can't we have ONE candidate staying in the race who HAS principles and convictions?

Can we all agree that we need at lease ONE candidate who won't sell out on ending Bush's insane wars?

Can we all agree that we need at least ONE who won't sell out to corporate power on workers' rights, healthcare and trade(the only issues other than the war that REALLY matter)?

Can we all agree that we need real passion, debate and engagement at our convention, and not another empty "Vote for me 'cause I've done stuff" show like the last time?

Any Democrat can win this year. But the principles of the Kucinich campaign need to be part of that victory if it is to matter.

So stop dissing Dennis, people. He fights for what we REALLY want. Nobody else that's running can say that.

the NH GOP pulled their sponsorship from the debates because 2 of their candidates were excluded - yet Democrats just want to eat their own. It's a sad, sad day when the GOP behaves more like Democrats than we do.

There will be no more talk of peace in these "debates".

Mission Accomplished indeed.

I want him to still bring up the issues and points of view that the others are not discussing

email feedback@abcnews.go.com

n/t.

He represents our best interests. He'll get my vote.

Btw, did you catch him on Bill Moyers last night. That was part of the discussion -- how he and Ron Paul add to the debate overall and are important voices in their own right.

Worth a peak here:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html

Sweet dreams...

this out:

Kucinich's candidacy has been particularly evident in recent weeks.
Typically, Kucinich was ahead of the curve on an important issue. In November,
he seized on concerns about the reliability of electronic voting machines
produced by Diebold Inc., one of the nation's largest voting equipment
manufacturers. Those concerns were stirred by the revelation that Diebold
employees had expressed concerns in e-mails about the security of machines
produced by the company.
Diebold sought to shut down any debate about its machines by threatening legal
actions against operators of Web sites that were publishing or linking to
corporate documents that detailed flaws in Diebold equipment and
irregularities in the certifying of the company's systems for elections.
When he learned of the legal threats, Kucinich took on the politically potent
corporation. The Ohio congressman asked House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim
Sensenbrenner, R-Menomonee Falls, and the ranking Democrat on that committee,
Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, to investigate whether the company's actions
were potential abuses of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. He also posted
the controversial documents on his congressional Web site.
Diebold quickly backed down. And Kucinich used the development to declare, "In
a democracy where half the people don't vote and where the last presidential
election was decided by the Supreme Court, we cannot tolerate flawed voting
equipment or intimidation of those who point out the flaws. Diebold backing
down from its intimidation campaign is a positive step. An open and honest
examination of the flaws in electronic voting will lead us to only one
possible conclusion: electronic voting machines are dangerous to democracy
because there is no way of ensuring their accuracy. We have to have a
voter-verified paper trail for every election so that any errors and
irregularities caused by the voting machines can be recovered."

http://www.oilempire.us/kucinich.html

The Bloodstained Path
by U.S. Congressman Dennis Kucinich
The Progressive

November 2002 issue

Unilateral military action by the United States against Iraq is unjustified, unwarranted, and illegal. The Administration has failed to make the case that Iraq poses an imminent threat to the United States. There is no credible evidence linking Iraq to 9/11. There is no credible evidence linking Iraq to Al Qaeda. Nor is there any credible evidence that Iraq possesses deliverable weapons of mass destruction, or that it intends to deliver them against the United States.
snip---
We know that each day the Administration receives a daily threat assessment. But Iraq is not an imminent threat to this nation. Forty million Americans suffering from inadequate health care is an imminent threat. The high cost of prescription drugs is an imminent threat. The ravages of unemployment is an imminent threat. The slowdown of the economy is an imminent threat, and so, too, the devastating effects of corporate fraud.

We must drop the self-defeating policy of regime change. Policies of aggression and assassination are not worthy of any nation with a democratic tradition, let alone a nation of people who love liberty and whose sons and daughters sacrifice to maintain that democracy.

America cannot and should not be the world's policeman. America cannot and should not try to pick the leaders of other nations. Nor should America and the American people be pressed into the service of international oil interests and arms dealers.

(more...much more)

http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/11.04D.kucinich.path.htm

Why should I even consider voting for anyone else in the primary?

I agree. I think Kucinich talks about things nobody else does. And he represents part of the Democratic party that is routinely igored and taken for granted.

One of the more disgusting and despicable themes on DU is the attack on the PERSON ... accompanied by epithets and arrogant prognostications. The mean-spirited dismissals of the person who has been the ONLY candidate to carry the messages that the VAST MAJORITY of DUers agree with and support are appalling.

message is incapable of carrying it more than a few inches. He's becomiong Nader without even past success to point to.

All these years of running with that nmessage, and here he is-- still in the back of the pack and in danger of losing his house seat.

Does Shirley still have a spare room?

want?

That's your first mistake.

Second is thinking that Kucinich could pull it off, whatever it is. 10 years now and he's gotten how far?

He's a schlemozzel with some nice ideas. But still a schlemozzel.

That's not in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary. Do you use some other dictionary? Or do you just make words (and other junk) up? eom

one from the Bronx.

one from the library. :D

I wuz jus' kiddin' cuz u mispelt sum Engrish werds abuv. :D

Tag. You're it! :D

now I should note that earlier you spelled "preferably" wrong.

on edit...

how did I miss "passsing"?

(Yes! Enough of this!)

:D

I think Leo Rosten defined the difference as a schlemiel is one who spills his drink at a party. A schlemozzel is the one upon whom he spills it.

n/t.

My point of comparison is that they are both losers.

from some Broadway show tune that used the two terms.

Schlemeel, schlemazel, hasenfeffer incorporated!

Should I have a Polish, german, french, spanish, dutch, finnish, afrikan, gaelic, norse dictionary ?????

I thought the United States of America was the GREAT MELTING POT.....what makes YIDDISH SO damn special that I should keep/know your language dictionary over every other nationality?

it's not really such a melting pot, is it?

Oh, and it's not my language-- I just knew a lot of people who spoke it. In my neighborhood, you might have shpilkes or agida.

It's not like Dennis has done any harm by running.

And c'mon, even YOU would have to admit that the "frontrunners" are basically people we could settle for, at best. No one feels any genuine enthusiasm for any of them.

sainthood amongst some here, and is the only "one not to be criticised."

OK, that's stretching it a little, but he is the one who I really don't think has the temperment or ability to handle the job. It just makes me crazy to see him as the anchor drowning people are hanging on to. (Yes, I meant that exactly as written)

Of the frontrunners, I think they all have the means to do the job, and my question is who among them might be the best, but I'll go down to the general with any of them. I will probably vote for Richardson next month, but the other three are fine with me.

As to whether in a nation of well over a hundred million Constitutionally eligible people this is the best we can do-- every election I bemoan that there HAS to be someone better out there. But this is what we have to work with, so we fight to win in November.

If Dennis hadn't run this time or last, would any of the other candidates have ever expressed a single passionately held conviction?

No, and you know it. It would all have been bland, triangulated, calibrated, Kerry-style "Nuance". And 2004 proves for all eternity how well a "nuanced" Dem can do.

I won't apologize for being protective of the only candidate we had this year who stood for anything. Sorry those of you who would gladly settle for nothing beyond a pale rerun of the 90's can't handle that.

What's it like not caring about anything?

(and fine, I'll work like hell to get the other guys out after the convention. But with the kind of platform HRC stands for, getting the other guys out would be ALL the fall campaign would be about. And the years '93 through '01 show how much 'victory in name' is worth).

a difference now than last time.

Or when Jesse Jackson brought a lot of good stuff into the campaign-- nothing changed.

Change comes about for a lot of reasons, but few of them have anything to do with one guy standing out there pissing in the wind.

Don't give me that crap about not caring about anything. Dennis has been in the House for how many years and what the hell's he done for any of the things I give a shit about.

Lieberman's been a better leader on the environment, fer crissakes.

A trillion bucks a year for "defense" and I don't see Dennis every year making the case to reduce it-- and having people go along with him.

Where's he been on leading the charge for more US based R&D and getting American kids to get graduate science degrees so MIT doesn't have to get all those Asian kids to fill the classes.

And that's just the beginning...

But God, if only the other candidates were in, would you even bother turning on the tv to listen to them?

As to your point on Jesse, I agree, things didn't change then, but that was because Jesse drank the party koolaid and disbanded the Rainbow Coalition after '88. If he'd either kept running or kept the Rainbow together, there's no way we'd have settled for nominating a Republican in '92(and face it, that's what we did.)

What is needed is both an articulate candidate who speaks truth to power, and a continuing rank-and-file movement that goes on between elections.

I don't really understand why Dennis' support hasn't gone up this year, especially since polls show voters backing a lot of what he stands for.

But in the end, what message do we send when someone speaks with conviction and articulates clear principles and then those people who agree with those principles DON'T vote for him? Do we not send the message that politicians shouldn't bother trying to stand for anything?
And why should we send such a cynical, self-defeating message out to our leaders and the world?

Are you an AIPAC member?

I won't be drawn in.

w/o Dennis.

He stands for my ideals and principles.

Maybe not all Dems agree but if we can't at least be willing to give others an opportunity to speak, we have no hope at all of anything resembling *CHANGE* regardless of what the **accepted** and **electable** candidates may say.


After the primary, I will again register as Independent- like I have been with the exception of the last 4 years so I could participate in the Dem primary. Why bother whn my voice has been effectively silenced.

Bet I am not the only one who feels this way.

Dems = big tent, my ass.

My Rep is Barbara Lee... so I'm right there with ya'. Black woman with the same convictions as Kucinich, so she obviously doesn't even bother trying to run (imagine what a laughing stock a black woman saying the things Kucinich says would be...).

On the other hand... let's face it... Kucinich is just too patently stereotypically liberal to ever win anything nationally. I mean, I like the guy, especially after he pulled a tea bag out of his pocket, among other things, on the Sephen Colbert Report... but even I like the right to have a gun (Barbara Lee's district includes Oakland, CA. a gun is a handy thing to have here... just in case).

The real problem is that Kucinich is way too sensibly anti-war, and this is a nation of Rambo enthusiasts (ok, that's out of date... but you get the idea). In my opinion, if Kucinich asked his supporters to go with Obama as a #2 in Iowa, it suggests that he thinks he's close enough, views wise, to be worth supporting... so why not check Obama out? If you want Kucinich, or Lee, or Boxer, or some other too-liberal-for-the-mainstream candidate or nothing (I confess, I would probably vote for Kucinich or any others I listed, if it got that far), well... I'm afraid you're gonna be left voting for your own moms, or some other waste of vote (which I've also done).

On the other hand... if Kucinich threw his support toward Obama, maybe he is worth considering...

Why has Edwards taken huge strides in the direction of the Kucinich platform? Could it be that if Dennis is up there talking that talk, they can't ignore his issues completely?

that keep him from being a contender in a national election

I do not approve of the fact that superficialities play any role whatsoever in American electoral politics, but that they do is simply an unpleasant reality

A Presidential campaign a few years back was damaged, for example, by the candidate's old-fashioned pocket protector, and a more recent Senate campaign in my state was mortally wounded when the opponent made fun of the candidate's unusual first name

Nuff said

--when he calls for fair trade or universal health care, do they?

how the thing is framed by his omission.

The media is doing it's job well manufacturing opinion.

K&R

He definitely should be there. He raises the level of the debate.

any more than we needed Richardson there tonight.

That's where you have to be if you want Dennis silenced.

I just don't see the need for candidates who obviously have no chance to muck up the debates.

No, I'm not in any crowd....you're entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I could say you are in the pie in the sky naive crowd, but I won't.

Without Dennis, there IS no passion and conviction on the debate stage. There's just photo opportunities and sound bites.

Debates with no passion can't be worth having.

hyperbole much?

He should definitely be there and Mike Gravel, too. He is not afraid to lead the pack in the right direction and Mike Gravel is not afraid to call bullshit when he hears it. Those two are definitely missed tonight. I think ABC is being disingenuous by leaving them out. Those two are not afraid to tell it like it is. Maybe it's because they don't owe any favors.

personally.

Debates without Dennis and a race without Dennis leave us with a party where workers and the poor don't matter. Centrists don't care about the people Dennis fights for.

Why do you want a passion-free party?

Kerry's campaign proved what has to happen with THAT kind of strategy.

At some point we have to be realistic.

I had the impression that you would like to hear all ideas, not the type to let "some other" tell you 'what's good' or not....ya' know? :think:

I like him, but he's not going to win. :shrug:

:evilgrin:

but this one...not so much.

In fact I think its in rather poor taste.

:thumbsdown:

Sorry.
DR

that they had enough faith in him, and in other Kucinich supporters, like myself, that they could withstand a bit of humor.

I was wrong. Apparently, it is ok to make humorous jabs at others but not our own. :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

Anyway, I really like my pic and think Kucinich is cute as a button. :)


GEAUX KUCINICH!!!!!

:kick:

Poor taste is OK with me. My respect for Dennis isn't threatened by a Swamp Rat image in any way.

And Dennis and Elizabeth probably laughed their heads off about it.

n/t.

I, too, believe Elizabeth and Dennis would like it, as I am sure they would understand I am mostly poking fun at those who have criticized their relationship (and his height).

Many folks do not realize that my pix are also directed at the supporters of the subjects in them, as well as myself and my own understanding of the noise going on around me.

As I mentioned elsewhere. Had to laugh in spite of myself. :)

ROTFLMBO! Can't say that I mind the elf costume nearly as much as that goddess' nip rings.

Way back during his run for mayor, he was our munchkin leading the way down the yellow brick road, to yank down the curtains of privatization.

nobody I've talked with trusts any politician as far as they could spit, but add in where Kucinich comes from, how he came up, along with what all he stands for now, and people do take interest.

You should read that transcript of his Bill Moyers interview last night...after all these speeches we've been bombarded with this week, it was real talk man, their probable source of all this hyped up talk about "change" the others have been chattering on with since Iowa.


http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01042008/transcript3.html

Regarding Bushler and Cheney, he said that if he is elected president, he "will see them prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."

We must find a way to elect this man.

Thanks for the PBS link. :hi:

he is a cute elf...but I want him to be president...not a cute elf....Think this country'd ever accept a cute as a button elf as president?? :evilgrin: I mean we already have a chimp....

Peace
DR

There are a lot of DUers attacking each other over the candidates lately, so I have been trying to add a bit of levity. ;)

:hug:

Here's my thread on Kucinich:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2608539&mesg_id=2608539

:rofl: That is a riot! And, beautifully done at that. :hi:

He KNOWS that he is not likely to be president any time soon. He continues to run because his message is more important than his candidacy. He knows that it's important to make people aware of his positions, and he wants the media coverage to make folks think about how things SHOULD work.

I would love to live in an America that would elect a person like Dennis. Until that time comes, however, I guess I'll vote for the "least worst" and continue to encourage folks like him to get out the message of real change.

I'm ready to admit that he can't win. It's not going to happen. But why can't his voice be heard? We need a principled progressive voice to help shape the debate. Edwards is great, but there's only one Dennis Kucinich.

Don't give up....that's what 'they' want us to do. A large majority of people want this wonderful 'underdog' to win....and he can! It just takes US to work and follow through as Dennis has through the years.

Peace and :hug:

he's in it for the full run. Just because the media and his own party are trying to marginalize him and make him irrelevant is not making him quit. Wouldn't it be great if he wins the primaries and makes fools and liars out of the rest of them?

as to why Kucinich should not be allowed to participate in the debates.

It is bullshit in my opinion. If we're only going to allow the frontrunners to speak, why have "debates" at all?!

He represents much of the uber-left (hippies) but not the middle grounders.

This is part of why Kucinich can't win. There's just too much of this kind of thinking out there. I've never eaten granola, joined a drum circle, hugged a tree, or dropped acid in my life. I can't stand the Grateful Dead and I've never worn anything made of hemp. I am a fan of Kucinich because he has what I see as sound, sensible policy proposals to move this country forward.

I have NEVER joined a drum circle (I'm not even sure what that is), I have never 'literally' hugged a tree (but I was a Camp Fire Girl once), I've never dropped acid (or taken any other drug besides the legal limits of alcohol and tobacco) and I couldn't name a Grateful Dead tune if my very life depended upon it.

Despite all of the nosensical, silliness about Dennis.....we 'all' have a story ~ a history. It would be weird if we didn't.

I take offense when someone like Mr. Kucinich is mischaracterized while the MSM ignores MAJOR CORRUPTION/CONFLICT OF INTEREST in most of the other candidates.....Dem and REPUKE-FREAKS alike!

But that's the way American politics is. People like Kucinich are trying to change all of that for the better. And whether he is the nominee or not, i think he's doing a hell of a lot of good. Kucinich has been out there working for people for decades. This race doesn't change that. And we know that no matter what, he will keep doing so as long as he is able.

America isn't good enough for Dennis Kucinich yet. That's the simplest way I can put it.

but I STRONGLY believe you have 'other motives' that would explain your point of view

on edit: to add "that would explain your point of view"

All in one post. Nice...

I don't think I'll respond to you anymore. Best wishes.

Uhhm, point of fact... at least in the San Francisco/Berkeley area... at this point in time.

Ok, for those of you around the rest of the country, let me just make this point clear. Hippies, as they have so fondly been cartoonified over the last couple of decades, no longer really exist.
There are ex-hippies who hold onto the old stereotypical values half-heartedly, but most of them now live in either trailers of million dollar homes.
There are the yippies (I think they were/ought to be called) who were hippies and went yuppie, and they're now basically progressive yuppies... and probably the backbone of Pelosi's support.
And, these days, here in the SF Bay Area, if you talk about "hippies"... well you're talking about the "gutter Hippies" who live ont he streets of San Francisco or Berkeley, panhandle for change, maybe play guitar, maybe deal heroin, or anything in between... but please... people... stop referring to the "uber-left" as hippies. You just sound dated and out of touch.
Please be specific, in fact, when referring to the "uber-left"... are you referring to the PETA-animal activists... Critical Mass, the bicycle rights activists... the Vegans (who're often closely associated with PETA)... or just the plain old left over PC-left, which I think Kucinich and many others draw their messages from.

Until you learn to discern the "left" that you're talking about... we 'lefters' will hold you i the same disdain we hold news media accounts that talk of 'drug addicts' which don't specify whether we're talking abotu heroin addicts or meth addicts or coke heads or crack heads...
There's a big difference.

HHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!

woooooooo.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHA!

I better get my patchouli oil to cover my pot smell while I go dumpster dive for tofu and sprouts! Also, can I and my 4 dogs crash in your living room? I'll trade you a rare grateful dead 1968 portland show!

Can you tell us some of the political positions of an "uber-left"/hippie?

Congrats Mr_Monday, you done good today!


Hippies.. sure you're not lost buddy?

sheesh.

Don't know much else about the Grateful Dead....but there was nothin' wrong with that! :-)

Dennis is (unfortunately) unelectable, but he speaks for (and from) the very heart of the Democratic party.

It pisses me off to no end that the Dem leadership is acting worse than its Rep counterpart. If Ron Paul can debate with the Reps on ABC (after he was first rejected), why the fuck wasn't Dennis allowed to participate in what is supposed to be a Democratic Debate?

I know the answer. No real debate is allowed anymore. The cooperate MSM news owners know that a Dem will win the presidency in '08.


Trust in this -- genuine Democratic debate will exponentially shrink as election day grows closer. Richardson will be the next to be excluded.


Interesting that those with the best resumes are the most marginalized:

Richardson, Kucinich, Biden & Dodd (in no particular order) ...sounds like a folk song.

Shelf delete?

then unfortunately I will have to hold my nose and vote again for - one of those other people

...can you tell me where he's gone

He speaks for all the people but it seams the good they die young

I just turned around, and he was gone...

and it's too f-ing bad if he makes those who don't have a conscience feel uncomfortable and ALMOST have feelings of guilt for their right wing ways. NEVER SAY DIE DENNIS!

ps-i was greatly disappointed when he gave Obama is endorsement. Sheesh almighty.

That endorsement should have gone to Edwards. Giving it to Obama makes no sense.

than Edwards? Hey I figure if I'm gonna dream, I'm gonna dream BIG! :)

we can't all agree

i've flip flopped from kucinich to biden and now that joe's out of the race, today i made a decision. barring some news that causes me to see him in a different light, or some news that sways me toward one or another of the front runners, kucinich is my choice and will have my vote until he is no longer an option. at which time i will vote for the democratic nominee for president of the united states, because any one of them is far better than any fucking republican.

edited to add: kucinich is the only person i hear talking about what is one of the gravest issues for me: accountability for the fucking bushies. impeachment, war crimes trials. all of the crimes! i hate absolutely HATE thinking about them getting away with it, all the blood on their hands.

Don't get me wrong I've totally warmed up to Kucinich but you couldn't get DU'ers to agree that the earth is round these days..

Go Dennis!! :woohoo:

K&R

.... he has no chance of winning, and he's been taking cheap shots at the rest of the Democrats. Time for him to pack it up, and I supported him in 2004.

Of course he is, he would like the party to resemble Democrats. So far I don't see it even coming close to anything the party is supposed to stand for. Those "cheap shots" are needed or else we are the other guys only our hats are white.

Sometimes the truth makes people feel uncomfortable.

at the state of the union address..no i can not agree..and i do remember when he would not release
his delegates in 2004..

and i remember his folks causing trouble at Kerry rally's in Forida..it wasn't little lord pissy pants people we had to worry about ..it was Kucinich people who were the disruptors...Kucinich could have easily called his people out to stop their shenanigans..but he didn't.

No we can not agree we need Dennis.

fly

(That's a first, and should easily make the Guiness book of World Records)

It was Lieberman that hugged Bu*h at the State of the Union Address.

I doubt Bu*h's Secret Service agents would let Dennis get within 200 yards of Bu*h.

and in the debate. What the hell?? When did the TV guys get to decide who our candidates are? That is undemocratic and dangerous.