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Sobering Thoughts on New Hampshire

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 10:02 PM
Original message
Sobering Thoughts on New Hampshire
I have no idea if the New Hampshire election was stolen, but I really doubt it.

The fact that everyone is so ready to believe that a Democratic primary election in New Hampshire was rigged by machine is mind-boggling. After all, no matter who wins, the result doesn't decide even the nomination, much less the Presidency. It's a hell of a lot of effort, and no little risk, for relatively little gain.

Retail election theft has always been a problem, but credible accusations of wholesale vote-snatching and related chicanery are very new—less than a decade old--in our system. It only goes to show how far public life and public trust have eroded in America. In the past, while we may well have deplored the tactics politicians used to get themselves elected, we didn't seriously doubt that the numbers produced at the voting booths reflected the will of the voters for the most part. Sure, there were rumors in 1960 about the Kennedy-Nixon election, but for the most part we thought the system was relatively functional.

It seems to me that the greatest obstacle that will confront an incoming administration is the necessity to begin restoring not just integrity, but perceptible integrity, to government. And make no mistake about it—this will be a daunting task in the face of a hostile Mainstream Media.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. They didn't use computers until 2000, as a direct result of the "chads" which
were created to usher in the computers. (see Dan Rather Reports) The machine in use in New Hampshire was already being challenged before the election. It failed EVERY SINGLE TEST APPLIED to it. It took computer students 2 minuets ot hack in to the Diebold central tabulator. So there is no reason in the world to think that the election was honest.

The only thing which might indicate a correct election would be polls which match the results. They did not. As a matter of fact, Obama was declared the winner all over the world last night, except for in the US. Then. this morning Hillary won.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Many companiesd use
Excel and Access data to close their books. They are not as secure as oter products that do that same job.

That does not mean every company using these tools is fabricating information.


Response bias is pretty common.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. It does mean that bad tools were used in an unsecure election. And when the
results don't match the polls, the remedy is ALWAYS a hand count. Saying the polls were wrong and not the hackable machines, is like saying Tinkerbell exists, as one speaker put it on the radio this morning. (The NYT writer who wrote the article in Sunday's magazine.)
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I agree with your general principle that machine fraud is not only possible,
but almost certainly did occur in some elections. I just think it's fairly unlikely that NH was such an instance, for the reasons I stated.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. why do you think NH was not an instance? the votes were counted on the same machines
that erred Sarasota County by 18,000 votes in 2006. We know the Diebold tabulator is extremely easy to hack. Why would it not happen. That is sort of like leaving your keys in your car, and thinking the car will be safe from theft...
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Relatively high risk for a low potential payoff.
Strategically, if you're gonna steal an election, I don't think that would be the one. Too easy for some loose cannon like DK to call for a recount.
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RogueBandit Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. There are conspiracies...
and they run across party lines (even into or directly from progressive organizations). I don't know if this is one, but considering the mind boggling control techniques of the corporate evil (and no, I don't think all corporate entities are evil) I wouldn't be surprised by the fact, just surprised if substantial evidence were ever found.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think the result was genuine. I heard callers swtiching on the radio. Obama can bounce back easy.
Edited on Wed Jan-09-08 11:33 PM by cooolandrew
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. Funny how these DU charges are mentioned NOW, not last week, not last month---NOW.
I call shenanigans, and I don't mean in NH.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. N.H. says more about the pollsters and MSM than the result....
There has been no adequate explanation how all the different MSM pundits and pollsters could have been so wrong about a race that should have been 'polled to death.'

I don't believe in a conspiracy regarding the outcome, but I do believe something significantly wrong happened with the polling the MSM --and we need to find out what it was, and how it happened.
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