Up until now, I didn't have a second choice

I was for Edwards all the way. Still am. But if the unthinkable should happen (no cheering from the "he's a phony" crowd, if you please--you people make me want to puke) I will support Hillary over Obama.

You might ask why and remind me of her IWR vote, her Iran vote, her pandering to the nitwits with her video game and flag-burning crap. And, yes, it's true I'm not thrilled about any of that. You might remind me that John called her the "Status Quo" candidate (some time after I did, if I want to be perfectly honest about it) and that Obama comes across more as an "agent of change."

But I've been thinking about it a lot lately and what it comes down to is that I won't support a candidate who doesn't recognize how truly nasty and evil the top dog Republicans actually are. Someone who thinks that he can "reach across the aisle" without losing at least a few fingers. Hillary KNOWS what we're up against there and they're still trying to take her down.

Anyone the Repugs hate THAT much can't be ALL bad. Anyone who takes the hits that she has and keeps on going has more than her share of guts. I can stand behind that.

And it just might be that she's had an epiphany recently--something that reminded her WHY she's in this in the first place. There was a note of sincerity in her voice the other night during her concession speech that hinted to me that she wasn't echoing Johnny's populist rhetoric as a political ploy.

I could be wrong. I know that. I could have been wrong from the beginning about Johnny himself, and I could be wrong now. But I consider myself a fair judge of character and I have hope that we might actually get a real Dem in the White House again.

I thought I'd fall Obama's direction for the longest time. But I can't wrap my mind around the reconciliatory tone. I just can't. I don't want to watch someone smile back at those bastards while they're kicking us in the teeth yet again.

So, here, take these nails. I'll go get the wood myself. Crucify me if you must, but this is the way it's going to be.

Edwards first. Hillary second.

I know this isn't going to make me popular with some folks but that's okay.

To restore moderate, centrist and anti-populist policies of the Clinton White House.

She and her advisors / supporters genuinely view Edwards populist rhetoric as dangerous -- dangerous for the party, dangerous for institutional support, dangerous for the nation. That's what she was saying about her opponents when she teared up. "Don't roll the dice and ruin our country" by advocating divisive lefty rhetoric.

Clinton would never support or endorse Edwards' populist stances.

She feels only she can defeat the GOP because only she understands how fundamentally conservative "Ordinary Americans" are, as she has been made to understand it, from ten years of living in a bubble, under siege by an expertly propagandist enemy. and only she knows how to defend Clinton era policies in terms she feels these GOPers can accept. which says something right there.

She doesn't have to, so why is she doing it?

Most political activists, even in the Populist Party, are policy wonks
who wholeheartedly endorse the idea of a policy vanguard
shaping a message until the populace feels it is what is best for them.

"Let them eat cake" isn't going to fly much longer.

Cause I'm pretty sure that's the only way you could be privy to all that info and have any kind of standing to repeat it as fact. You know, as opposed to purely pulled out of your you-know-what speculation.

that they support. They are proudly anti-populist.

They believe populism is bad for the country, it is
just another form of demagoguery in their minds.

I was certainly taught that and I hear it all the time
from Dems who live in the DC area. These are the more
affluent, policy oriented Dems, many of them to the
left of Clinton.

Me, I'm a radical populist. You have to understand
where populism is based on to realize how unpopular
it is among conventional Dems.

so anybody who calls you names for it needs to get their head checked. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

does two things, he can win me over: draw record numbers of independents in November to create a landslide, and repeal DOMA and DADT. Then I'd forget about McClurkin.

You might ask why I would name accomplishments that wouldn't happen until my support was moot anyway. But the fact is, its already a moot point, since I caucused for Edwards in Iowa.

It doesn't mean that we all have to agree, right?

I see things a bit differently but I still believe in the right for your voice to be heard and respected. After all, that's what we are ALL fighting for, correct?

I just don't see Hillary as the "victim" re: the Repubs. She seems to enjoy her share of benefits. Just an observation...

All the hope has been killed out of you and only cynicism and hate remains.

I know where you are coming from...I used to feel the same way. But now I am tired of all that wasted energy and I want to DO SOMETHING FOR THIS COUNTRY!

So I believe again. I have to...otherwise there is no point.

Cynicism and hate? Me? Gawd, that's funny as hell.

To quote a certain rabbit. "He don't know me very well, do he?"

believe, think and feel exactly the way I DO!

If you have a different opinion - there must be something wrong with YOU!


I hope I don't need this but:sarcasm:

I just don't see how a 50/50 country can get anything done.

If you can't create a working majority its all pointless.

He's my second choice.

.

No offense, but I thought you declared a hiatus from DU the other day?

Welcome back! It's like you never left! :hi:

if anyone has PROVEN a willingness to conspire with repukes, it's Hillary Clinton



FWIW, neither Clinton nor Obama are in my top three

And there ARE no other contenders.

then why was she hanging around Rupert Murdoch and Newt Gingrich?

I reckon I'd better find some links for that...

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/05/13/news/clinton.php

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/09/politics/main1600694.shtml

:shrug:

Even her detractors say she's a consumate politician. It would be a hell of a move to keep them off-balance, wouldn't it?

If she thinks they're evil, then why work with them. And if she's working with them, how is that different from what Obama wants to do?

Double standard?

I don't KNOW why she's cozied up to them. But Obama's "everybody's friend" rhetoric really rubs me the wrong way. At least I think Hillary knows she's got a fight ahead. Obama seems to think everyone will jump on the peace train and ride the rails to Obamanation.

No thanks.

The dawning of the age of Aquarius. Everybody's not gonna jump on the peace train, just the vast majority of decent, ordinary Americans are gonna stand up and tell the professional haters, the 15-25% of hateful Bush/Gingrich supporters "get lost, we're better than that."

I have watched Hillary since her entrance into the Senate; kept track of every vote, watched who she's buddying up with... and she is so involved with the Repugs, I call her 'lite'. She hangs out with the Bush's (1&2)..her and Bill... She and Liberman are great friends and every time I turn my head and look back, she is aligned with some Repig with her comradre and eventually her vote. Her voting record should tell you all you need to know.

Barack wants reconcilliation (so he says) but I don't believe it. He's dreaming, I think.. but at least he's admitting he wants to try. Hillary is already there!!

It comes down to "More of the same".. or "POSSIBLE change"...

...and that's how I see it

and her husband Bill.

I'll give you a hint... it's not because she is the opposite of them.

Thankfully your vote does not mean anything in a popularity contest. I wish you and your candidate all the best, but if anything happens and you do come over to Hillary, rest assured you will be welcomeed with open arms of the group IMO is the least popular on DU.

Hillary second = Mark Penn and Blackwater second.

"Anyone the Repugs hate THAT much can't be ALL bad."

However, you've just helped my reconcile my issues if Edwards is no longer an option - in a clear and succinct manner, as usual.

Yeah, Hillary understands not only what kind of animals live across the aisle, but their temperament, habits and diet. Given a real majority in both houses, she could make some real progress toward undoing the disaster that is the last seven years.

and evil the republican leadership is. What I don't understand is why you would support someone who has conveniently sidestepped the issue of holding those republican leaders accountable?

Hillary, Obama and Edwards act as though they would ignore that issue, and I believe they refuse to tackle it because they know that by doing so, it might hurt their overly ambitious aspirations.

I will vote my conscience and support the only candidate that has actually taken on the issue of accountability. The one with guts. The one who actually would fight for us.

I'm still Edwards --> Obama, but that's just because Hillary's negatives are so high and I doubt she can win in the general election. You make a good argument, all the same.

:toast:

-Laelth

More here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4006622&mesg_id=4006622

She can take anything they throw at her and then some. She knows all their dirty little tricks.