Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Optimistic Outlook For Solar Power

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 12:06 PM
Original message
Optimistic Outlook For Solar Power
Edited on Thu Feb-22-07 12:09 PM by RestoreGore
This is encouraging, but what if you don't own a home? I hope this will also be available to those in this country who wish to use solar power but don't own the home they live in. I wonder too... could these strips eventually be put on cars or even airplanes? Now that would be something to see. For me, the bolded text below is really most important because developing countries need solar energy because it is clean and it is in non renewable supply. It is simply the most cost effective, safe, and clean way for these countries to get power. I would even hope to see water pumps run by solar power in areas of the world where it is hard to have electricity.

I only hope this comes in time to mitigate further damage to our atmosphere and that other industries are open to it. But again, this is encouraging, and I see the only way for the price of solar to keep parity with oil and gas and hopefully one day beat them out is to see a greater demand for it, but that won't come without information and persuading people that it is OK to look to the future because solar power is cleaner and safer.

Of course, people out to make money from this (and let's face it, profit will also be key here as well) may not see it that way should demand be truly overwhelming, so again, I think we will need to wait and see how this plays out. Such a shame too. This should have been done twenty years ago. I have always said that solar was the wave of the future, and the future is now. I truly hope to see this take flight on a massive scale.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/02/19/ccview19.xml

Monday view: Cheap solar power poised to undercut oil and gas by half
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Last Updated: 11:31pm GMT 18/02/2007

Within five years, solar power will be cheap enough to compete with carbon-generated electricity, even in Britain, Scandinavia or upper Siberia. In a decade, the cost may have fallen so dramatically that solar cells could undercut oil, gas, coal and nuclear power by up to half. Technology is leaping ahead of a stale political debate about fossil fuels.

Anil Sethi, the chief executive of the Swiss start-up company Flisom, says he looks forward to the day - not so far off - when entire cities in America and Europe generate their heating, lighting and air-conditioning needs from solar films on buildings with enough left over to feed a surplus back into the grid. The secret? Mr Sethi lovingly cradles a piece of dark polymer foil, as thin a sheet of paper. It is 200 times lighter than the normal glass-based solar materials, which require expensive substrates and roof support. Indeed, it is so light it can be stuck to the sides of buildings.

Rather than being manufactured laboriously piece by piece, it can be mass-produced in cheap rolls like packaging - in any colour. The "tipping point" will arrive when the capital cost of solar power falls below $1 (51p) per watt, roughly the cost of carbon power. We are not there yet. The best options today vary from $3 to $4 per watt - down from $100 in the late 1970s. Mr Sethi believes his product will cut the cost to 80 cents per watt within five years, and 50 cents in a decade.

skip

"The beauty of this is that you can use it in rural areas of India without having to lay down power lines or truck in fuel." Villages across Asia and Africa that have never seen electricity may soon leapfrog directly into the solar age, replicating the jump to mobile phones seen in countries that never had a network of fixed lines. As a by-product, India's rural poor will stop blanketing the subcontinent with soot from tens of millions of open stoves.

More at the link.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ive read the story...its froth from a new startup, not serious coverage
I am seriously into solar power. For that reason I understand all that has to be done to keep it up and functional. Its not for the typical homeowner yet, and may not be for some time.

I am also concerned about all the noise about thin film cells going to save the world. They are not. Look into energy density and efficiency rates and its clear that while it can help, and even supplant in some areas, its not for all locales and its not a panacea. They are a very cool evolution in the technology, but the overselling of them is going to cause problems with mis set expectations. Alternative energy has gone through cycles where its going to be perfect tomorrow and then reality sets in, and sets the movement back in the eyes of many.

Its been an exciting evolution and a great thing to be part of, but when the snake oil starts, which is what many of these statements are, I start to cringe.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I agree with you
But I am hoping tha technology will continue to keep pace and that we will see a more viable solar energy that can really compete with other energy sources. The bottom line is really that this is a moral issue, and unless people themselves see the urgency of their need to change their ways, we will simply be scratching the surface of what is possible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I saw a documentary recently
Where they were featured in a segment.It showed a machine they built that turns out this photovoltaic film.It already is capable of producing the film but it is not very fast right now.They are working to speed it up to 200' per minute.When that happens the PV film will be getting really cheap.
Keep in ear out for these guys work.They may well change the world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Ever hear of Stanford Ovshinsky?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. This may be the guy I saw on tv
I thought it was the other guy in op but I may have been mistaken.
Either way,when pv film mass production techniques has been perfected it will change the world.


Bookmarking his site.Thanks for the link.As an electrician,this stuff interests me on a professional level as well as political/enviromental level.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Nonsense - homeowners Germany and Japan have installed hundreds of thousands of PV systems
Edited on Thu Feb-22-07 03:21 PM by jpak
Tens of thousands of US homes have them too.

Several large home builders in California have PV systems standard in their new homes.

There is virtually no routine maintenance required - and the PV modules are waranteed for 20+ years.

...and furthermore, PV can be used everywhere in the lower 48, Hawaii and much of Alaska. Here's the list of solar homes from last year's National Solar Tour day...

http://www.ases.org/tour/2006_tour/listings.htm

And - thin film PV will save the world. The smart money (and lots of it) is flowing its way today - not in the future...






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Have you ever looked at the numbers for those systems? They are not what they could or should be.
I'm passionate about renewables too, I just dont want them oversold. 4-6 fixed mount panels with an inverter and a grid tie will help, but its not clear it will be cost effective or ever reach the break even point, and clearly will not be any where near optimal.

Thin film is a dramatic cost reduction with lower power yields. The latter should rise, which will be a good thing. Claims about draping the sides of buildings with it are silly.
Solar systems require reorienting and being kept clean to function well. Ask someone who has one. When was the last time you got on your roof, let alone cleaned it?

Yes solar can be used in all states to some level. That does not mean it will be cost effective in all locations. Buffalo, NY comes to mind as a place that would be less effective than Hawaii or Arizona.

Do some math:
- How much AC power do you use a year
- Look up how much solar power is available in your area (try the charts on various websites)
- Figure out how many cells you will need to break even
- Figure out the sqft required for those cells
- Looks at the cost of the cells, inverters, mounting, installation, and integration. Also look at the incentives and rebates. How many years before you break even?
- Also consider where will you put them so they get good sun year round and where will you put the inverters

Solar retrofits are not always that easy. Wiring and mounting are always a concern. In suburbia trees/hedges/fences make ground mounting much less effective, and CC&Rs may interfere with roof locations. Also roofs not designed for solar systems often provide a much less than optimal location.

My position is not that it is a fraud, but that the benefits are being dramatically oversold by startups and corporations looking to take advantge of the renewed interest in green power and make a quick buck. I am truly bemused to see an industry lobbying group cited as a source here at DU. When the truth comes home to roost, the interest and overall support for the concepts fade dramatically. We don't need the markteers and hucksters. We need solid systems installed in a economically resonsible way that can be maintained and be effective for the long run.

I'm hands on with the technology, and really do want it to succede, and over hyping wont help.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. my husband and I have seriously thought about putting solar panels
or a solar shingle system on our roof but the costs are just too high right now and it is hard to find installers.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MurrayDelph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I put them up on my house last winter
I live in one of the sunniest parts of Los Angeles, and have the only two-story house on my block.

LADWP has a rebate program that paid for about 40% of the cost, and I figure at current
rates it will take about ten years to break even (But I am willing to cover that).

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC