They NEVER really lived happily ever after,

it was all just a fairy tale, which kept the folks buying the next book.

Yes, from the very beginning, it was all about pulling the money out of pockets.



The most basic form of capitalism is lending money for interest.

Why is it that BANKS can earn so much lending money?

Because individuals don´t TRUST each other enough to lend money to their friends and relatives.


BUILDING TRUST in a society is only possible when a majority of the population recognizes and

accepts REALITY and stop living the FAIRY TALE life made possible through CREDIT CARDS.

it is considered a sin to charge interest (usury). In many Muslim communities, there are lending co-ops where people pool money and then give what is needed when it is needed to individuals who then pay it back. For those who are not religious, there are economic co-ops who charge a low interest (mainly to pay overhead for mailings, etc)and give out loans for all sorts of things. My husband and I have obtained loans this way, and it is the only way to go. We only use a debit card and haven't used a credit card in years, and don't plan to use one ever again. There is this philosophy of living within one's means, and using one's surplus to help others.

I don´t consider charging interest as "a sin", because capital is a production factor and should earn an increase.

The problem is when people use a loan to "temporarily increase their standard of living".

that was how I was raised.

I realize that, any more, most people don't think of charging interest a "sin"--but I put that in for some historical perspective. In Medieval Europe, the only ones who were allowed to charge interest were non-Christians, which meant Jews--remember Shylock in "The Merchant of Venice"? This is one reason Jews were reviled in Europe, even though it really wasn't their fault--they saw a niche for themselves, a way to make a living, and they took it--who can blame them? And anyway, Christians conveniently "forgot" about the sin of usury with the rise of corporations. And many wealthy Muslims have investments where interest is involved.

which makes it interesting to earn money and save it.

If you earn more than you spend this year, then you can save the "extra money". Because of inflation, you have to earn interest on the savings or else your money will be "worth less" in the next year.

The concept of "interest earning capital" is an innovation which helps EVERY PERSON who earns more than he spends. It´s not the corporations who get the benefit, it´s the INDIVIDUALS who save their money who benefit. Without interest earning capital, you, as a frugal person, would have no advantage in the future over those who spend everything they earn.

I know you said "that was how I was raised". This is a good time to "reprogram your knowledge".
Earning interest is not a "moral issue".

who lost all her investments in the Crash of 1929--Don't trust corporations, they are all crooks. If I have money to invest, it will be in co-ops, thank you. With the CEOs gutting corporations and running off with millions, I'd say there are still plenty of crooks in the corporate world. And anyone who would do what the folks at Enron did is, to my mind, an immoral person. Maybe corporations per se aren't immoral, but the way many are being run sure is.

And there are things you can invest in that don't earn interest but keep their value--in fact, they do become better investments than stocks and bonds. Gold, firearms, and food spring immediately to mind. I'm in survival mode, and intend to stay that way for the foreseeable futuer.

Be careful with Gold ... now it´s up, but it hasn´t always been that way.

If you are investing in firearms and food, then you really are in the survival mode.

Food is only an investment if you plan to sell the goods to your neighbors for a really high price when times are tough (but that would be comparable to usury, wouldn´t it?)

A firearm is only an investment if you plan to hunt for food when times are tough and sell the meat for a really high price to your neighbors (same as above).

What about a shovel, a pick, a rake, a saw, steel-toed boots, and sturdy leather gloves?

Don´t forget the matches and the marshmallows :-)

Happy Camping!

Food is for sharing with your neighbors when times are rough, not for selling at a profit. I'm not a capitalist. And yes, guns are for hunting-my land is bordered by National Forest on two sides, and deer make good eating (just had venison last night). Of course I have all the gardening tools-the lettuce is up in my garden as we speak, and I'm just waiting for it to get large enough to harvest. My husband, who is disabled, is slowly working on setting up the hydroponic system so that we can have food ready to eat year round.

No marshmallows, thank you, but matches are plentiful in my household. I've been doing what you call "camping" for nearly 20 years now.

and seem to be doing a fine job supporting yourself.

Please be reminded that if everyone lived like you do, there wouldn´t be gardening tools, guns, or the internet. (By the way, corporations build tools, guns and provide internet services too).

Loads of people on this planet don´t have a piece of land, offering free meat. And that´s why they earn more than they spend, they want to save their money for the future, so that they can buy food when they are retired.

Earning interest is an innovation which benefits individuals.

The only thing I will agree with you on is that if everyone lived like me, there wouldn't be an internet. But gardening tools and guns? Please give me a break! These items were manufactured long before there were corporations, and will be manufactured if anything happens to those corporations. My great great grandfather was a blacksmith, my step-father made his own tools, and my husband does too. And I have neighbors who make their own weapons (they go to historical re-enactments).

For those who want to support the corporations and make interest, fine. But it is not for everyone.

Wesley and Buttercup DID TOO live happily ever after. :)

That aside, I do think that we are, as a culture, too diversified, too cynical (which is now considered a "good" thing) and too self-serving to build or maintain trust in this society-- regardless of which mechanisms are added to, or subtracted from the equation.