No tree has branches so foolish as to fight amongst themselves. Ojibwa saying

Just sayin' for the sake of biological accuracy.

enough to have to decide what branch to grow, and what direction to grow it in.

I'm sorry, but no, plants are not "conscious." They don't have nervous systems. They don't "decide" which way to grow. Branches grow when lateral meristem suppression is eased, either by distance from apical auxin sources, or after removal of apical meristems. Plants grow as clusters of unorganized cells unless directed by hormone and growth regulator gradients and ratios, not by conscious decision.

I'm sure you'll disagree vehemently, so I won't argue this with you. Just a word of advice though-- don't ever have this discussion in a botany class.

and this is seen as healthy and balanced, for such communication maintains respectful relations with all the other beings we depend upon -- absolutely -- for survival in the web of life.

It is all related. The trees are our living relations, and like all else they have a spirit, a life spark. Modern mathematics and physics are - finally - beginning to glimpse this dimension of reality with their leading-edge theories.

More understandings will come soon, I feel. And that will be a healing thing for the disrespected and trashed life systems of our planet, a perilous, heinous trashing of the air, water, and land we and our children must have, trashing (peeing in your own drinking water) that arises from the inconsiderate words and actions of people with limited materialistic views of reality.

Thanks.

Do they decide which way to grow?

I think that people might be speaking of different things in terms of consciousness.

...yes, dogs are certainly conscious, as are most (or all) animals. The first prerequisite for what we call consciousness is a nervous system. Note that consciousness is not the same thing as cognition-- I cannot comment on whether dogs think about things (but I suspect that they do since they have the requisite nervous system-- and I have no doubt that my cats are better philosophers than I. Flatworms, OTOH, are comparative dullards but likely still conscious). Consciousness, as I understand it, is awareness of self and of the surrounding world-- not just response to surroundings, but awareness of them and of one's relationship to them, at some level. Again, self awareness need not imply anything we might recognize as a "personality." Plants certainly respond to some specific stimuli-- light and gravity gradients, for example, but these responses are simple tropisms that don't involve awareness in any conscious sense.

That's my biologist's take on the matter.

If I might be allowed an edit: The MECHANICS of consciousness involve electrochemical changes across neuron membranes and their responses to those changes-- that's the reason I'm dubious about any organism without a nervous system being "conscious."

and contributes by struggling. Sorry, but I'll stick to the hard sciences for practical lessons.

It is wrong, but whatever, right?

Competition (a meaningless phrase in the hard sciences)
with the less fortunate is obviously key for you and your family.

Do you have a basic for contradiction or are you venting at me? I'm not responsible for life ... predation can't be justifed, but who are we to condemn the process that produced us?

Sorry, but your philosophical basic isn't sound. Please try again when you have something substantial to contribute.

Demonstrates the meaninglessness of "competition".

You would have been eaten alive by maggots if that were true. They wait until you stop breathing because they are filling a niche. Creatures that escape that niche upset the balance -- often with negative results, creating die-offs. Life is about equilibrium, not struggle.

organism where none exists is folly. The branches of a tree are potentials struggling to be realized by mature growth ... the equations are simple and elegant. We can analyze life by recognizing periodicity ... elections coming every quadrennial, for example.

Equilibrium is a moving target, a state of being when reactions take place at equal rates going both ways in the formula. Clouds aren't enduring objects ... their boundaries are constantly reshaping as water changes phase.

Please, I studied chemistry carefully. We can continue this, but only if we both accept reality and established definitions.

It's not going to go gently. EVERYTHING is viewed as a giant competitive struggle against everything else. As much as the ideal of science is to be separate from society and its objective observer, it also is very much a part of society and prone to the biases that formed it. Our society also can't imagine anything other than competition. It's to the point where some scientists have proposed that a baby should really be classified as a parasite to its mother. They believe they are being objective and grounded in harsh reality, so I've found there's little point in arguing. It's not going to change for decades, most likely.

To the original point-it's the primaries, that's what they are for.

Life may not be about struggle, but it is about competition for resources.

http://www.reelyredd.com/1001duel.htm


The gingham dog went "bow-wow-wow!"
And the calico cat replied "mee-ow!"
The air was littered, an hour or so,
With bits of gingham and calico,
While the old Dutch clock in the chimney-place
Up with its hands before its face
For it always dreaded a family row!
(Now mind: I'm only telling you
What the old Dutch clock declares is true!)

Sitting here staring out my window at the overgrown, twisted old wisteria pretty much confirms this. It's a beautiful plant, mind you, but I'm positive its branches are competing.

Many here will not understand what it says though.

Push it too far, and we're back at GOP "support Bush or you're a traitor."

And, no, I don't see myself as on the same tree with Hillary.

you might want to cut it off before it kills the tree.

I'm sure the Ojibwa have a saying for that scenario too.

just recently I had to have some branches removed from a tree in my yard so the tree would grow stronger and thrive better.