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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:01 PM
Original message
Poll question: The better President was:
If YOU were running for President, whose name would YOU invoke as to who changed the country's trajectory into a POSITIVE/BETTER 8 years ?

Obama: “I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America, in a way that Richard Nixon did not, and in a way that Bill Clinton did not,” the Senator told the Reno Gazette-Journal. “He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like with all the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown but there wasn’t much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. . . . He just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was, ‘We want clarity, we want optimism.’”

Optimism and clarity? Are you fucking kidding me?

From Paul Krugman:

Reagan...went to Philadelphia, Mississippi, in 1980, the town where the civil rights workers had been murdered, and declared that “I believe in states’ rights,” he didn’t mean to signal support for white racists. It was all just an innocent mistake.

When he went on about the welfare queen driving her Cadillac, and kept repeating the story years after it had been debunked, some people thought he was engaging in race-baiting. But it was all just an innocent mistake.

When, in 1976, he talked about working people angry about the “strapping young buck” using food stamps to buy T-bone steaks at the grocery store, he didn’t mean to play into racial hostility. True, as The New York Times reported,

The ex-Governor has used the grocery-line illustration before, but in states like New Hampshire where there is scant black population, he has never used the expression “young buck,” which, to whites in the South, generally denotes a large black man.

But the appearance that Reagan was playing to Southern prejudice was just an innocent mistake.

Similarly, when Reagan declared in 1980 that the Voting Rights Act had been “humiliating to the South,” he didn’t mean to signal sympathy with segregationists. It was all an innocent mistake.

In 1982, when Reagan intervened on the side of Bob Jones University, which was on the verge of losing its tax-exempt status because of its ban on interracial dating, he had no idea that the issue was so racially charged. It was all an innocent mistake.

And the next year, when Reagan fired three members of the Civil Rights Commission, it wasn’t intended as a gesture of support to Southern whites. It was all an innocent mistake.

Poor Reagan. He just kept on making those innocent mistakes, again and again and again.

PS: It has been pointed out to me that Reagan opposed making Martin Luther King Day a national holiday, giving in only when Congress passed a law creating the holiday by a veto-proof majority. But he really didn’t mean to disrespect the civil rights movement - it was just an innocent mistake.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/10/innocent-mistakes/


Ronald Reagan's FCC stopped enforcing and then got rid of the Fairness Doctrine. Congress restored it but Reagan vetoed that. Under President George HW Bush Congress again restored it but it was vetoed. Then, under President Clinton the House passed it but the Republicans in the Senate blocked it with a filibuster. In the last six years Republicans controlled the House, Senate and Presidency and were quite happy with broadcasters presenting only a narrow corporate viewpoint, and allowing personal attacks to go unanswered.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-johnson/restore-the-fairness-doct_b_33761.html

Let's not forget:

The Iran Contra fiasco.


$3 trillion federal deficit...

The fact is that Reagan was able to push his tax cuts through both Houses of Congress, but he never pushed through any reduced spending programs. His weak leadership in this area makes him directly responsible for the unprecedented rise in borrowing during his time in office, an average of 13.8% per year. The increase in total debt during Reagan’s two terms was larger than all the debt accumulated by all the presidents before him combined. From 1983 through 1985, with a Republican Senate, the debt was increasing at over 17% per year. While Mr. Reagan was in office this nation’s debt went from just under 1 trillion dollars to over 2.6 trillion dollars, a 200% increase. The sad part about this increase is that it was not to educate our children, or to improve our infrastructure, or to help the poor, or even to finance a war. Reagan’s enormous increase in the national debt was not to pay for any noble cause at all; his primary unapologetic goal was to pad the pockets of the rich. The huge national debt we have today is a living legacy to his failed Neo-Conservative economic policies. Reagan’s legacy is a heavy financial weight that continues to apply an unrelenting drag on this nation’s economic resources.

http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

He destroyed the Savings & Loan institutions:

A CONFEDERACY OF GREED

LIKE ALL CENTRAL BANKERS, Paul Volcker tended to speak guardedly, even among friends. So it was nothing short of shocking when, in the spring of 1987, he admitted that he was losing confidence in the stability of the nation's financial system, particularly the savings and loan industry. "The whole thing could blow at any time," Volcker said in a Georgetown restaurant. "And it's going to be their fault." "They" were the officials in Ronald Reagan's White House and James Baker's Treasury Department. Volcker believed that they were fiddling while the financial system burned. And burn it did. Since 1985 some 500 savings and loans have flamed out, and roughly 1,000 of the remaining 2,950 could eventually be reduced to cinders. Under the most optimistic economic scenario, the cost of putting out the fire will be at least $157 billion--$600 for every man, woman, and child in the United States, or $2,400 tacked on to the average family's tax bill. "We're looking at a 12-figure bailout," Representative Jim Leach of Iowa said recently. "We're looking at a fraud story that's bigger than Teapot Dome or Abscam. If we look at the executive branch, we're looking at a cover-up bigger than Ollie North's." What destroyed the savings and loan industry is greed--private, governmental, systemic. Don't make the mistake of blaming the plummeting oil prices and real estate values that crushed the economy of the Southwest, the epicenter of the crisis; those factors are part of the normal business cycle and had never before triggered such widespread white-collar looting. And if you can believe it, the cover-up is more heinous than the crime. By 1985 a few government officials had braved the special-interest groups and industry titans and had begun to sound alarms, but their warnings went unheeded. Had Congress and the White House faced up to the problem then, the bailout would have cost relative pocket change--say, $10 billion. The collapse of the S&L industry is the financial scandal of the century, the fraud of all frauds, the inside job of all inside jobs. In effect, corrupt owners turned their S&Ls into private money troughs that were constantly replenished with the federally insured dollars of unsuspecting depositors. Deregulation created these troughs, and taxpayers will now pay for them.

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-9207607_ITM

He ignored the AIDS epidemic:

By Feb. 1, 1983, 1,025 AIDS cases were reported, and at least 394 had died in the United States. Reagan said nothing. On April 23, 1984, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced 4,177 reported cases in America and 1,807 deaths. In San Francisco, the health department reported more than 500 cases. Again, Reagan said nothing. That same year, 1984, the Democratic National Convention convened in San Francisco. Hoping to focus attention on the need for AIDS research, education and treatment, more than 100,000 sympathizers marched from the Castro to Moscone Center.

With each diagnosis, the pain and suffering spread across America. Everyone seemed to now know someone infected with AIDS. At a White House state dinner, first lady Nancy Reagan expressed concern for a guest showing signs of significant weight loss. On July 25, 1985, the American Hospital in Paris announced that Rock Hudson had AIDS.

With AIDS finally out of the closet, activists such as Paul Boneberg, who in 1984 started Mobilization Against AIDS in San Francisco, begged President Reagan to say something now that he, like thousands of Americans, knew a person with AIDS. Writing in the Washington Post in late 1985, Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Los Angeles, stated: "It is surprising that the president could remain silent as 6,000 Americans died, that he could fail to acknowledge the epidemic's existence. Perhaps his staff felt he had to, since many of his New Right supporters have raised money by campaigning against homosexuals."

Reagan would ultimately address the issue of AIDS while president. His remarks came May 31, 1987 (near the end of his second term), at the Third International Conference on AIDS in Washington. When he spoke, 36,058 Americans had been diagnosed with AIDS and 20,849 had died. The disease had spread to 113 countries, with more than 50,000 cases.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/06/08/EDG777163F1.DTL

AND he declared our first imaginary and endless war, The War on Drugs.


The Clinton record:

longest economic expansion in American history--a record 115 months of economic expansion
More than 22 million new jobs: more than 22 million jobs were created in less than eight years -- the most ever under a single administration
Highest home ownership in American history
Made the Federal government smaller (a feat matched only by Harry Truman; if you like small government, vote Democratic)
Lowest unemployment in 30 years: unemployment dropped from more than 7 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000; unemployment for African Americans and Hispanics fell to the lowest rates on record, and the rate for women was the lowest in more than 40 years
Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill
Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
Lowest crime rate in 26 years.
Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years
Higher incomes at all levels: after falling by nearly $2,000 between 1988 and 1992, the median family's income rose by $6,338, after adjusting for inflation; all income brackets experienced double-digit growth; the bottom 20 percent saw the largest income growth at 16.3 percent
Lowest poverty rate in 20 years: the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent to 11.8 percent in 1999--the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years
Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union: efforts of the Clinton-Gore Administration led to the dismantling of more than 1,700 nuclear warheads, 300 launchers and 425 land and submarine based missiles from the former Soviet Union
Paid off $360 billion of the national debt: under Clinton, we were on track to pay off the entire debt by 2009; what a difference a stolen election makes...
Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
Lowest government spending in three decades
Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
More families owned stock than ever before
Most New Jobs Ever Created Under a Single Administration: Republicans really chew the rug when you mention this one, so it's worth repeating constantly
Median Family Income Up $6,000 since 1993
Unemployment at Its Lowest Level in More than 30 Years
Highest Home ownership Rate on Record
7 Million Fewer Americans Living in Poverty
Largest Surplus Ever
Lower Federal Government Spending: after increasing under the previous two administrations, federal government spending as a share of the economy was cut from 22.2 percent in 1992 to 18 percent in 2000--the lowest level since 1966
The Most U.S. Exports Ever: between 1992 and 2000, U.S. exports of goods and services grew by 74 percent, or nearly $500 billion, to top $1 trillion for the first time
Lowest Inflation since the 1960s: inflation was at the lowest rate since the Kennedy Administration, averaging 2.5 percent, down from 4.6 percent during the previous administration
The child poverty rate declined more than 25 percent
The poverty rate for single mothers was the lowest ever
The African American and elderly poverty rates dropped to their lowest level on record
The Hispanic poverty rate dropped to its lowest level since 1979
Lowest Poverty Rate for Single Mothers on Record: under President Clinton, the poverty rate for families with single mothers fell from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 35.7 percent in 1999, the lowest level on record
Smallest Welfare Rolls Since 1969: between January 1993 and September of 1999, the number of welfare recipients dropped by 7.5 billion (a 53 percent decline) to 6.6 million. In comparison, between 1981-1992, the number of welfare recipients increased by 2.5 million (a 22 percent increase) to 13.6 million people
Lowest Federal Income Tax Burden in 35 Years: Federal income taxes as a percentage of income for the typical American family dropped to their lowest level in 35 years
Higher Incomes even after Taxes and Inflation: real after-tax incomes grew by an average of 2.6 percent per year for the lower-income half of taxpayers between 1993 and 1997, while growing by an average of 1.0 percent between 1981 and 1993
AGAINST TERRORISM

# PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy, and appointed first national coordinator of anti-terrorist efforts.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold the Al Qaeda millennium hijacking and bombing plots.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to kill the Pope.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up 12 U.S. jetliners simultaneously.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up UN Headquarters.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up FBI Headquarters.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the Israeli Embassy in Washington.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up Boston airport.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up Lincoln and Holland Tunnels in NY.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the George Washington Bridge.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the US Embassy in Albania.
# Bill Clinton tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes (efforts denounced by the G.O.P.).
# Bill Clinton brought perpetrators of first World Trade Center bombing and CIA killings to justice.
# Bill Clinton did not blame the Bush I administration for first World Trade Center bombing even though it occurred 38 days after Bush left office. Instead, worked hard, even obsessively -- and successfully -- to stop future terrorist attacks.
# Bill Clinton named the Hart-Rudman commission to report on nature of terrorist threats and major steps to be taken to combat terrorism.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to tighten airport security. (Remember, this is before 911) The legislation was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the airlines.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to allow for better tracking of terrorist funding. It was defeated by Republicans in the Senate because of opposition from banking interests.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to add tagents to explosives, to allow for better tracking of explosives used by terrorists. It was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the NRA.
# Bill Clinton increased the military budget by an average of 14 per cent, reversing the trend under Bush I.
# Bill Clinton tripled the budget of the FBI for counterterrorism and doubled overall funding for counterterrorism.
# Bill Clinton detected and destroyed cells of Al Qaeda in over 20 countries.
# Bill Clinton created national stockpile of drugs and vaccines including 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine.
# Of Clinton's efforts says Robert Oakley, Reagan Ambassador for Counterterrorism: "Overall, I give them very high marks" and "The only major criticism I have is the obsession with Osama".
# Paul Bremer, current Civilian Administrator of Iraq disagrees slightly with Robert Oakley as he believed the Bill Clinton Administration had "correctly focused on bin Laden.
# Barton Gellman in the Washington Post put it best, "By any measure available, Bill Clinton left office having given greater priority to terrorism than any president before him" and was the "first administration to undertake a systematic anti-terrorist effort".
http://liberalslikechrist.org/about/clinton.html
ON THE ENVIRONMENT
Bill Clinton issued an Executive Order on Environmental Justice to ensure that low-income citizens and minorities do not suffer a disproportionate burden of industrial pollution. Launched pilot projects in low-income communities across the country to redevelop contaminated sites into useable space, create jobs and enhance community development.

President Bill Clinton sought permanent funding of $1.4 billion a year through the Lands Legacy initiative to expand federal efforts to save America's natural treasures and provide significant new resources to states and communities to protect local green spaces and protect ocean and coastal resources. Won $652 million for Lands Legacy in the FY 2000 budget, a 42 percent increase.

Launched effort to protect over 40 million acres of "roadless areas," which include some of America's last wild places. Dramatically improved management of our national forests with an ambitious new science-based agenda that places greater emphasis on recreation, wildlife and water quality, while reforming logging practices to ensure steady, sustainable supplies of timber and jobs. Balanced the preservation of old-growth stands with the economic needs of timber-dependent communities through the Pacific Northwest Forest Plan.

Adopted a uniform tailpipe standard to passenger cars, SUVs and other light-duty trucks, producing cars that are 77 percent cleaner -- and light-duty trucks up to 95 percent cleaner -- than those on the road today. Set new standard to reduce average sulfur levels in gasoline by up to 90 percent. Once fully implemented in 2030, these measures will prevent 43,000 premature deaths and 173,000 cases of childhood respiratory illness each year, and reduce emissions by the equivalent to removing 164 million cars from the road.

# Approved strong new clean air standards for soot and smog that could prevent up to 15,000 premature deaths a year and improve the lives of millions of Americans who suffer from respiratory illnesses. Defending the standards against legal assaults by polluters.

# Accelerating Toxic Waste Cleanups. Completed cleanup at 515 Superfund sites, more than three times as many as the previous two administrations, with cleanup of more than 90 percent of all sites either completed or in progress. Secured $1.4 billion in FY 2000 to continue progress toward cleaning up 900 Superfund sites by 2002.

# Providing Safe Drinking Water: Proposed and signed legislation to strengthen the Safe Drinking Water Act and ensure that our families have healthy clean tap water. Required America's 55,000 water utility companies to provide regular reports to their customers on the quality of their drinking water.

# Established EPA's Drinking Water State Revolving Fund (DWSRF) that provides grants to States to finance priority drinking water projects that meet Clean Water Act mandates. To date, the DWSRFs have provided $1.9 billion in loans to communities.

# Awarded nearly $200 million in Department of Agriculture (USDA) loans and grants for over 100 safe drinking water projects in rural areas of 40 states. USDA grants and loans target rural communities plagued by some of the nation's worst water quality and dependability problems.

# Expanded Safe Drinking Water Act protections to protect 40 million additional Americans in small communities from potentially dangerous microbes, including Cryptosporidium, in their drinking water.

# Ensuring Clean Water. Launched the Clean Water Action Plan to help clean up the 40 percent of America's surveyed waterways still too polluted for fishing and swimming. Secured $3.9 billion since 1998, a 16 percent increase, to help states, communities and landowners in reducing polluted runoff, enhancing natural resource stewardship, improving citizens' right to know, and protecting public health.

# Strengthening Communities' Right to Know. Strengthened the public's right to know about chemicals released into their air and water by partnering with the chemical industry and the environmental community in an effort to provide complete data on the potential health risks of the 2,800 most widely used chemicals. Nearly doubled the number of chemicals that industry must report to communities, while expanding the number of facilities that must report by 30 percent.

# Expanded the community right to know about releases of 27 persistent bio-accumulative toxins (including mercury, dioxin, and PCBs). These highly toxic chemicals are especially risky because they do not break down easily and are known to accumulate in the human body.

# Secured $83 million in FY 2000 for two major new efforts to restore salmon in the Pacific Northwest: $58 million for the Pacific Coastal Salmon Recovery Fund, which provides resources for states and tribes to protect and rebuild salmon stocks; and $25 million to implement the historic Pacific Salmon Treaty with Canada, which established two regional funds to improve fisheries management and enhance bilateral scientific cooperation between the two countries and provides funding to buy back fishing permits in Washington.
# Expanding Wildlife Refuges. Added 57,000 acres, including lands along the last free-flowing section of the Columbia River, to the Saddle Mountain National Wildlife Refuge to protect salmon habitat in Washington.

# Forging Partnerships to Protect Habitat. Completed 255 major Habitat Conservation Plans (HCPs), compared to 14 before the Administration took office, to protect more than 20 million acres of private land and over 170 threatened and endangered species. These voluntary agreements protect habitat while providing landowners the certainty they need to effectively manage their lands.

# Strengthening Protections for Wildlife. Signed legislation that strengthens protections for wildlife by mandating that the most important use of our nation's wildlife refuges is giving refuge to migratory birds and other animals reliant on this rich system of natural habitat.

Protecting our Oceans and Coasts

# Creating Comprehensive Oceans Policy. Directed the development of key recommendations for strengthening federal oceans policy for the 21st century and appointed a high-level task force to oversee the implementation of those recommendations. Convened a National Ocean Conference in June 1998 that brought together government experts, business executives, scientists, environmentalists, elected officials and the public to examine opportunities and challenges in restoring and protecting our ocean resources.

# Strengthening Our National Marine Sanctuaries. Secured a funding increase of over 100% to better support national marine sanctuaries -- homes to coral reefs, kelp forests, humpback whales, and loggerhead turtles. Supporting the five-year Sustainable Seas Expeditions to explore, study and document ways to better protect underwater resources.

# Preserving Coral Reefs. Issued an Executive Order to expand protection of coral reefs and their ecosystems to address issues of coral reef management, expansion of marine protected areas and increased protections for coral reef species.

# Protecting Marine Mammals. Led negotiations resulting in a multilateral agreement to protect dolphins in the eastern tropical Pacific Ocean. Issued new standards to protect the endangered northern right whale from injuries from ships by instituting a first-ever ship reporting requirement in two areas of right whale critical habitat. Fought for creation of the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, an area of more than 12 million square miles off the coast of Antarctica.

# Banning Ocean Dumping of Toxic Waste. Led the world in calling for a global ban on ocean dumping of low-level radioactive waste. The U.S. was the first nuclear power to advocate the ban.

Introduced "Better America Bonds" to generate $10.75 billion in bond authority over five years to preserve open space, improve water quality and clean up abandoned and contaminated properties known as brownfields. Local communities can work together in partnerships with land trust groups, environmentalists, business leaders and others to develop innovative solutions to their community's development challenges.

# Provided leadership critical to successful negotiation of the Kyoto Protocol, which sets strong, realistic targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and establishes flexible, market-based mechanisms to achieve them as cost-effectively as possible.

# Investing in Clean Energy Research. Won more than $1 billion in FY 1999 and in FY 2000 for the Climate Change Technology Initiative, a program of clean energy research and development that will save energy and consumers money. Extended the tax credits for wind and biomass energy production through 2001, reducing emissions and reliance on imported oil.

# Growing Clean Energy Technologies. Issued an Executive Order to coordinate federal efforts to spur the development and use of bio-based technologies, which can convert crops, trees and other "biomass" into a vast array of fuels and materials. Set a goal of tripling our use of bioenergy and bioproducts by 2010 to reduce annual greenhouse gas emissions by up to 100 million tons a year -- the equivalent of taking 70 million cars off the road.

# Improving Scientific Understanding. Increased funding for the United States Global Change Research Program to more than $1.7 billion in FY 2000 to provide a sound scientific understanding of both the human and natural forces that influence the Earth's climate system. This record research budget continues strong support for the "Carbon Cycle Initiative" begun last year to improve our understanding of the role of farms, forests, and other natural or managed lands in capturing carbon.

# Energy Efficiency Standards for Appliances. Issued new energy efficiency standards for refrigerators, refrigerator-freezers, freezers and room air conditioners that will save consumers money and reduce emissions of greenhouse gases and dependence on foreign oil. The new standards will cut the average appliance's energy usage by 30 percent and save more than seven quadrillion BTUs of energy over the next 30 years, more than seven times the annual energy consumption of the entire state of Arkansas.

# Promoting federal Energy Efficiency. Issued an Executive Order directing federal agencies to reduce energy use in buildings 35 percent by 2010, reducing annual greenhouse gas emissions by the equivalent of taking 1.7 million cars off the road and saving taxpayers over $750 million a year. Forged new partnerships with industry to develop and promote energy-saving cars, homes and consumer products with the potential to save Americans hundreds of millions of dollars in energy bills and significantly curb greenhouse gas pollution.
http://www.environmentalcaucus.org/gore.html

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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Talk about a push poll!
Clinton, obviously, but sheesh!

Nobody's gonna read all that--you're just giving us scroll fatigue.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Why wouldn't it be read? I read very long posts all the time.
I needed to make the comparison CLEAR and show why Obama invoking Reagan, instead of Bill Clinton, was a STUPID, STUPID thing to do.
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Then why the poll?
What's the point of asking, if you're already telling?
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I'm not telling anything. I gave a picture of how Ronnie ruined our country and a picture
Edited on Sat Jan-19-08 05:23 PM by in_cog_ni_to
of how Clinton didn't. It's your choice....not mine. I see we have at least 4 Ronnie lovers here.:eyes: We also have a bunch of Bill Clinton haters here. Why NOT the poll?
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Look, I hate Reagan. But a poll is an effort to gauge the opinions
of others. This is the eqivalent of the push polls Huckabee's currently engaged in in SC.

"Hey let me tell you how much Reagan sucked, and Clinton ruled. By the way, who do you like better, super-awesome Clinton or horrible monster Reagan? Oh, Clinton, you say? Interesting!"
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. LOL....this is DU...I'm not part of the MSM. I'm suppose to be bias toward Clinton
instead of Reagan! I would think most people here are.:(
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Meh... it's not that big a deal.
Just thought it was kind of funny how you did that.
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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. FDR!
I'm almost as sick of Clinton as I am of Reagan. And don't get me started on his wife.

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Contrary1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. Neither.
I would invoke the name of Robert F. Kennedy.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Obama didn't use RFK in his quote. He used Reagan.
:)
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. You probably could have saved yourself a lot of typing.
A DU poll will always favor Clinton as the better president, and rightly so.

Otherwise....
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. You're beating the slick spot where the dead horse USED to be.
:popcorn:
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. The Fairness doctrine isn't something one would want to look at
Clinton had the power to have his FCC restore it- along with other responsible media regulations.

Instead, he chose to pander to the corporations- and consolidate it further.

This in spite of the fact that they relentlessly hounded him and his wife from day one.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Under Clinton, the House passed it, but the repukes FILIBUSTERED it.
Ronald Reagan's FCC stopped enforcing and then got rid of the Fairness Doctrine. Congress restored it but Reagan vetoed that. Under President George HW Bush Congress again restored it but it was vetoed. Then, under President Clinton the House passed it but the Republicans in the Senate blocked it with a filibuster. In the last six years Republicans controlled the House, Senate and Presidency and were quite happy with broadcasters presenting only a narrow corporate viewpoint, and allowing personal attacks to go unanswered.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. The Fairness doctrine was a set of administrative rules and cases
Edited on Sat Jan-19-08 06:34 PM by depakid
set out by the FCC. Reagan's FCC repealed them (and tons of other regulations) largely through bogus "studies" -similar to what we see from the Bush's agencies.

Clinton could easily have had the FCC go through the APA process again- using honest finding of fact, and Congress wouldn't have had to do anything at all. If they wanted to overturn the rule(s) they'd have needed a veto proof majority in both Houses.

Nope- Clinton SOLD ALL OF US OUT on media regulation- even to the detriment of his political party!

Like it or not, that's his legacy.

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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. of course obama can't invoke clinton--but he should have never said
Edited on Sat Jan-19-08 06:00 PM by orleans
anything about the great & wonderful reagan! bletch. that just pissed me off. btw--nice breakdown/list.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. It pissed me off royally.
Heaven knows Clinton was a hell of a better prez than Ronnie AND he's a DEMOCRAT. This come together and sing Kumbaya/play nice crap is just too much and then to invoke Reagan, well, that was just the last freakin' straw for me....as far as Obama goes. If he cannot see the difference between where Ronnie took this country and where Clinton took it, then he has no business being President, IMCPO. And since Clinton served AFTER Ronnie and Poppy Bush...it's quite obvious Clinton took the country to a much better place since that asshole served.. Not a perfect place, but a better place than Reagan took us...fercryingoutloud, so wouldn't that say Clinton "changed the trajectory of America" also? Obama said he didn't.

Obama: “I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America, in a way that Richard Nixon did not, and in a way that Bill Clinton did not,”

Stupid stupid statement.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. well, this is what really got me
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2717001

that quote “I think it’s fair to say that the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10 to 15 years in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2008/01/hil-to-obam...


i read that and nearly fell off the fucking chair. (it was a cumulating effect, coming after the reagan thing--then this.)
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:43 AM
Response to Original message
19. kick!
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