Can I have a moment of real talk with my fellow African-Americans here on DU, please?

I wanted to take time out for a moment of 'real talk' with my fellow African-Americans here on DU.

I'm curious as to your perspective on the campaign so far...especially in terms of our community, and whether we're doing enough to educate ourselves on the issues at hand.

It seems to me that too many African-Americans really aren't taking the time to educate themselves on the issues in this election, and instead getting caught up in the hype of potentially electing the first African-American President.

Tom Joyner's radio program is a great example. I've discussed this here on DU before. Tom Joyner has had Barack Obama on his radio show many, many occasions this campaign season. And NOT ONCE have I heard a substance, policy discussion. It's always "How's Michelle and the kids" and that type of thing. And Tom Joyner has been absolutely unapologetic in his belief that we should all blindly get behind the Black candidate.

He doesn't engage Obama in policy discussions. Yet, when Sen. Clinton appeared on his program, he grilled her about her health care proposal, a conversation she was happy to engage in. She spelled out the details of her health care plan. And all Tom Joyner could do was berate her and ask her why wasn't it going to be free health care.

Sadly, it seems that Tom Joyner's campaign to get us in Black America to engage in group think, and just blindly get behind the Black candidate, has worked to some extent.

On the day of the New Hampshire primary, Tavis Smiley gave one of his bi-weekly commentaries on Tom Joyner's show. Basically, Tavis Smiley said that it seems like the Democrats want to fall in love this year. And he said that we celebrate the fact that they seem to be falling in love with Barack Obama. Now, first of all, I took issue with him saying that "we" celebrate what Obama was doing. "We?" I hope he wasn't including me in that "we." I hope Tavis Smiley wasn't pretending to speak for all of us in Black America.

So Tavis lost me there. But then, he said some things I totally agree with. He said you can't short-circuit the process of holding people accountable, just because you're in love. And how you want to give love, but you also want to receive it. And we can't lose sight of the process here. His whole point was the importance of still holding people accountable, after you've fallen in love with them. He said "Our issues now have to be addressed."

And people just went livid on him! After Tavis's commentary, people starting calling into Tom Joyner's show, and started emailing Tavis, asking him how much the Clinton folks were paying him (never mind the fact that he's not hardly in the Clinton's pocket.)

One woman called into Tom's show, saying Tavis needed to be more careful with his words, because one of her co-workers said "What is Tavis saying? Don't vote for Obama?" First of all, you can think for yourself. Why do you even think you need Tavis to tell you who to vote for?

I was just extremely disappointed in people's outrage over Tavis' comments. Because I understood clearly what he was saying: We have issues that need to be addressed in our community, and we need to hold our elected officials (Obama or anyone else) accountable.

The outrage over Tavis' reminder of holding Obama accountable, was, I believe, a low moment for our community. Because it clearly demonstrated we have people engaged in blind loyalty; in group think.

And it's not what I believe Dr. King and so many others sacrificed for. Nor is it what I think they would want to see, if they were alive today.

By the way, to listen to Tavis' commentary that caused so much outrage:

1. Go to: http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/sayitloud/smiley

2. Once there, scroll down and find:

Audio 1.08.08 - Tavis talks about the politics of Senator Barack Obama in Iowa and Hew Hampshire.

Click on it and listen.

Particularly, as Southern States with heavy A-A populations (i.e. South Carolina and Georgia) start to hold their primaries, America will be looking to see what African-Americans do with their vote.

What will many of us be saying with our vote?

not a single one. most don't have any clue where he stands on any issue...not a single one.

i get slogans instead...
"he gives me hope"
"it's time for a change"
"he's so exciting to watch"
"he can change things"

i'm a black female, living in oakland, ca.

most of the black people in my circle of friends are completely apolitical. they have no clue about what's going on with any candidate. and if they do, they don't want to talk about it..."i hate politics," etc. who knows who they will vote for. i suspect obama will probably get most of their votes....because he is black.

i suspect most of my relatives in texas will support obama because of his claims about his faith, and his mcclurkin moment...and because he is black. they are likely suspicious of his muslim roots, but since he's found jesus, they will probably overlook that.


my friend aj says the top democratic candidates are "a magical negro, and a white bitch"...that's how he sees the dynamic playing out in the media, and in middle america. he's funny and intelligent, and we both are hoping edwards rebounds.

my friend fj, is a union organizer. he's totally "in love" with obama, and in love with the idea of a black man becoming president. he is also in love with obama's wife, and her ass. he said he'd vote for obama just so he could see her ass in the white house. :eyes:

my friend rb is a backing clinton. she thinks obama is too inexperienced, and his message is confused. one day he's invoking reagan, the next he's invoking MLK. her perspective: let's stick with the known devil.

most of the white people in my circle of friends are "in love" with obama, and have little more to say on the subject, besides the aformentioned platitudes..."hope, change, etc." perhaps it's because i'm black, or perhaps it's because i get really irritated when i hear the "hope and change" thing, ad nauseum.

We've got an African-American unemployment rate that is more than the national average.

Then of course there's the poverty rate, the housing crisis, etc.

All issues which affect our community especially. And if we aren't going to address these issues, and ask ourselves where the candidates stand on them....what are we here for?

in the apolitical group, the prevailing belief seems to be that all politicians are liars, so it really doesn't matter who you vote for. they love bill clinton, so they may support hillary clinton in hopes of returning to a better past. they know nothing about NAFTA, and supported welfare reform.

most of the people i know, black and white, who have studied the issues and the candidates are supporting edwards.

:silly:


:hug: :loveya: :hi:

he's a thinking person, like yourself. how are you?
i have yet another challenge, breast cancer. but it's an early stage and highly treatable. hope all is well with you :loveya:

Obama doesn't get it either. He is being USED big time by the Rovians to try to ruin HC and tarnish the Clinton years...everyone having forgotten how they were doing then with all the liberal junk flying around, like reasonable interest rates, money in the bank, low unemployment, people lifted out of the ranks of poverty, low crime, very few losses of military lives, a President respected throuhout most of the world, family friendly workplaces, improvements in government services (especially SS administration)...but I digress.


It is tragic, because Latinos, Hispanics, and African Americans could have used this election to build a political alliance that would have had much power in the face of their advasaries. I fear that it is much too late in the hate HC and BC game to pull things together. HC supported Obama in his run for the Senate how did things get so out of whack?

A lot of what Obama attributes to statement by Bill and Hillary are really paraphrases or framing of thier statements to make people believe they said what is being reported. The first mistake by the Obama team was to make a big deal out of HC saying that it took a President to get the civil rights legislation through. The Obama camp jumped on the MSM bandwagon by casting that statement as an afront to MLK. It's been down hill ever since.

My hunch is that the Obama camp is infiltrated with a few HC haters pluse some very smooth RW-ultra-conservative neocons who want to kill the political careers of both Obama and HC. Right now, they are doing a great job of it. It seems that neither Obama or HC camps understand what is happening.

"It seems to me that too many African-Americans really aren't taking the time to educate themselves on the issues in this election, and instead getting caught up in the hype of potentially electing the first African-American President."

While I understand that you are seeking discourse, you have damaged it by stating the above paragraph.

How do you know that African-Americans are not taking the time to educate themselves?

I am sorry, but I find that highly offensive.

white and black, especially if they get most of their information from the MSM.

people accountable.

As I stated in my OP....people went livid on Tavis Smiley, when he suggested that after falling in love with Barack Obama, we hold him accountable. And agan, as I stated, that spoke volumes to me...That's what I meant about some of my fellow African-Americans, simply engaging in group think, and not educating themselves.

It's a problem for my community, if some of us don't want to hold Barack Obama accountable because he's one of us.

I understand what you saying, but to single out race is offensive. There are plenty of African-American voters that educate themselves on the issues.

And really, honestly... how would YOU know that this race group doesn't educate themselves on the candidates?

Two words: You don't

There's no doubt about that....But then again, there are plenty who don't.

I'm just really disappointed because I was hoping that our issues would be getting addressed in this election, and they are not.

And I don't think it elevates the level of conversation in our community, when you have people like Tom Joyner asking Michelle Obama why Black women are so split between Clinton and Obama, and then asking her "What is up with Black women?" Meaning...in his view, there's something wrong with any Black women (like me) who don't support Obama.

That's the problem I'm having here...our issues not getting addressed, and people like Tom Joyner who are suggested we engage in group think.

verbage should have been "Average American"...

I am sorry, not here to fight or flame. Just stating how I felt about the post.

It seems that whenever there is a post that suggests blacks are engaged in group think or some other negative thing, the recs pile on pretty quickly.

and a good percentage of voters aren't informed about the issues, that includes black voters.

"Americans"

NOT African Americans.

african-americans?

we are still living with the results of white groupthink...it brought us the reagan revolution and that trajectory of change. i remain offended by that.

smiley is challenging the notion that black people should vote for obama, simply because he is black, as joyner is pushing. michelle obama has pretty much said the same thing.

my argument is that the OP specifically said that African Americans are not educating themselves.

THAT is offensive. Period.

i have the common sense to know that he is RIGHT.
i know that most americans are getting their information from the MSM, if they are bothering to do that.
i know black people do that too.

you are focusing on semantics instead of substance.

I am.


This all about opinions. I am offended,you are not it isn't the end of the world.

or just to the few words you were offended by in the post?

Is that a problem?

The OP is looking for discourse where as his second paragraph is offensive. You cannot have discourse that way.

because you don't have a response to the substance of the post.

I think your knickers are in a twist because I found his verbage offensive.

I find it diffiuclt to have an honsest conversation with anyone who starts out throwing offensive barbs out about race.

Sorry, just my opinion.

I think Texas Gal's objection is a legitimate one, especially in light of the OP's long history of tendentious, anti-Obama posts.

Back when most blacks were supporting Clinton, their supposed groupthink and ignorance were not issues for the OP. Gee, wonder why that is?

i care that, as i black person, i talk to apathetic, uninformed, uncaring black people every single day. like the op, i think that is a problem for our community...i find that offensive.
are you offended by that? the op is right on substance...there are some black people who will vote for obama simply because he is black without even knowing his positions on any issues. the same is true of white people.

Dollars to dimes.

:shrug:

It seems to me that too many African-Americans really aren't taking the time to educate themselves on the issues in this election, and instead getting caught up in the hype of potentially electing the first African-American President.

Oh, please. You've been bashing Obama non-stop for months. Still on that trumped-up Tom Joyner shit, I see.


When you started your crusade against Obama, most blacks were still supporting Hillary, and you didn't seem to think that they hadn't "taken the time to educate themselves" back then.


And now, most blacks are supporting Obama. For what it's worth, I think that three things brought about the change.

First, a swell of white support for Obama made it possible for blacks to reconsider the abundance of caution that had lead them to discount his chances early on. Second, support from Oprah Winfrey was received as another signal that it was "safe" to consider Obama as a candidate. And third, race-baiting from the Clinton camp minimized the resistance to switching allegiances.

The Clintonistas could have eliminated that third factor. But they didn't, and the war is on.

If you'll read, you'll see I was responding to the outrage over Tavis Smiley's comments. This was not about me. As I pointed out in my OP, many African-Americans called into the Tom Joyner show, and went livid on Tavis Smiley, when he suggested that after falling in love with Obama, we remember to hold him accountable.

He was talking about the importance of holding people accountable (Obama included) and people went livid on him. That's what I was responding to...because that showed me that many in my community are engaging in group think.

Now go back to bed...little child.

was reagan's.
some reagan democrats still claim their votes were based on "optimism." if they had bothered to look at his record or examined his positions, perhaps they wouldn't have found his plans optimistic at all. a lot of people just got caught in the hype.

i think obama is a good candidate, but the "in love" thing really bothers me.

of Obama, after the 2004 convention speech. I even typed up "audacity of hope" and taped it to my desk at work.

But then I had to ask myself: What am I supposed to be hoping for? What comes after the hope?

Am I just supposed to "hope" that he knows what he's doing? Am I supposed to hope that he'll address the issues that matter to me?

Oh, look -- an attempt at condescension!

:eyes:


I did read your post. It consisted mostly of your characterization of some conversations you say you heard on the radio.


Thing is, given your previous contributions to the discussion of this topic, I'm hardly about to assume that your summary is fair or accurate. Quite the opposite, really.

I think your post is interesting, but a little odd, because most Americans in general are apolitical and don't look at the candidates closely, especially at this stage.

Also, why was there no discussion of black "group-think" when polls showed most blacks supporting Senator Clinton?

It seems to be me that blacks are often held under a microscope, like when Oprah came out in support of Obama. So what if she did? I'm tired of our motives always being unduly questioned.

If anyone cares, by candidate of choice is Edwards. I like Obama, and until recently, I was neutral about Clinton.

blacs favored HC. Even worse things were said.

I've been having a hard time getting overly excited about any of the 3 major candidates...Part of me hoped against hope that Gore would run, and then I supported Kucinich, whose politics most closely match my own...As Dennis has fallen by the wayside, I've become a lukewarm Edwards fan...

You had asked if I thought the black community was "doing enough to educate ourselves on the issues at hand." For me, I question whether most voters from any community has done enough to educate themselves, not counting the staunch single-issue voters...Part of this I think stems from an obsolete primary system, and general apathy over the notion that its "business as usual" with all the familiar faces in the race, and also the belief that very little will change for the better the life of average Americans...

you are one of the major Obama basher, and now you're asking blacks

to contribute.


This is you:-



So if Tavis hadn't changed his tone you would have bashed him too, Thank God he
switched his message.



See how quickly you turned this discussion into blacks bashing another black.(race)You see...
after being suppressed for so long, you tend to get confused when something good comes along.

Having said that....it seems to me you're trying to paint a certain picture on blacks being
ignorant to politics, for blacks to live on that myth that came from Chris Rock, that Bill is
the first black President, well you're wrong, most blacks on this forum have known about Obama
way before he became mainstream, unfortunately I'm unable to do a search to show couple of
article about Obama on this forum.

That said, I personally like Obama not because he is black but based on everything I've read and heard about him makes me like the guy more, I feel he is someone that can produce and someone
whom I can trust with safe pair of hands, based on his track record I can safely say he is another Feingold.

There are articles out there trying to distort the truth, but I know what the truth is, they can
smear, swiftboat, but eventually people will see what he is about.