Regarding Clinton's Private Sex Life

It wasn't private anymore after he looked the American People in the camera lens and blatantly lied to them knowing the corporate media had him under a microscope. He should have either kept his mouth shut or told the truth upfront, instead of giving the neo-con loving corporate media and Cheney/Bush the integrity issue on a silver platter.

That's why Bush ran on restoring honor and integrity to the White House, because that was his only opening. That's why the corporate media transferred the sins of the President on to the Vice-President with the continuous ludicrous slander and libel of "Al Gore claimed to he have invented the Internet" among many other lies, while ignoring Bush's mistakes, errors and lies. It makes no difference where you stand on the issues, if the corporate media can convince the public not to trust your integrity.

The corporate media simply didn't want the primary political champion for opening up the Internet for the people in the White House and Bill Clinton only helped them in that regard, with that act of political stupidity.

Today the same corporate media can't even bring them selves to call him the potential First Gentleman. I heard them refer to him this morning as the possible First Mate, and for an instant, I could only think of Gilligan. This from the same corporate controlled media that did nothing but wage an eight year witch hunt against the Clintons, thereby keeping scandal front and center, making integrity the primary issue of 2000.

I watched The View the morning and they discussed the Lewinsky Scandal, and it occurred to me, I've been making the same mistake they did subconsciously blaming it all on Monica Lewinsky, it should be called the Clinton/Lewinsky Scandal, unless you believe pleasured her self alone on the White House lawn. They had a minor debate because Lewinsky couldn't find a job supposedly because the Clintons had too many connections. One of them said she deserves it, the others did not think so, saying women should back up women. Not a one of them, that I recall ever mentioned the possibility that Bill Clinton was responsible as well, they didn't mention his name regarding this issue. I believe their real message was stand behind Hillary Clinton, but I don't believe it's because she's a woman, I believe it's because she is the most corporate loving candidate on the Democratic side.

The same corporate media hasn't done squat against Bush/Cheney's Constitutional transgressions. This tells me their true target was never the Clintons, it was Al Gore and that was their back door way of keeping him from coming to power, because he was a strong advocate of the Internet and as the Internet grew in power and influence, they came to resent him for it.

if willy had kept his willy in his pants al gore would be president right now.

*edit, if willy had not lied to the american people we may have had al gore as president too.

Here is my thread on Belinda and Lisa, the new Monicas. Get used to reading about them once Hil gets the nom:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3843356

No one complained about the "honor and dignity" of the Presidency when JFK and LBJ or FDR held office. They had even more infidelities than Bill Clinton. The difference was that the Republicans and neocons ownded and controlled the media during Clinton's administration and they knew they could not beat him on policy issues. So they bring out the personal stuff, build it up to make it look like the worse thing since Jane Fonda and they tried to beat him back with a bunch of shit.

No world leader during that time gave a damn about Bill Clinton's private sex life. The neocons never forgave Clinton for not carrying out their suggested PNAC agenda and they went after him with a vengence. Clinton's standing in history and the rest of the world will never be diminshed by his opponents.

that the corporate media used it to good avail to set a frame for Bush to run on. I honestly don't believe anything has changed with the corporate media since then, therefore it will be an issue again, with one caveat, unless the Clintons sold out Al Gore and putting them back in the White House is their reward. I don't believe the PNAC agenda is changed so much as the names of the players.

count up every time an Obamaniac or Kucinich fanboy (over)uses the term, and then toss one back. I'd be half in the bag after the 7-count screed above.

that Bush would make a good President because people would prefer to have a beer with him.

so that I could hit him over the head with the bottle!

:beer: :spank:

I want Dr. Phil to do an intervention. Live on Faux. Trailer Trash Barbie could play too. So could her ex-whatever-he-was K-mart. Jerry Springer could referee.:spank:

any more than the creep Ken Starr did. Get over it.

on a daily and nightly basis and if you didn't have a television, it was on the radio as well.

I don't a give rat's ass about his sex life but lying to the public about it on national television did him and especially Al Gore no good.

2000 election!

Bill Clinton didn't do shit to Al Gore. The SCOTUS appointed the psycho. The FL. SOS purged voter rolls, sent people to the wrong polling place, told people to vote on the wrong damn day, police stopped people and harassed them and on and on the list goes. Bill Clinton had NOTHING to do with that crap.

The Big Dog wouldn't have had to go on TeeVee and LIE had the repuke party not been sticking their perverted fucking noses where they didn't belong! No one would ever have known about Monica and Bill if it wasn't for the repuke party and Richard Melon Scaife.

Read David Brock's book, "Blinded by the Right" and Joe Conason's book, "The Hunting of the President" and then come back here and tell me it was Bill Clinton's fault.

I don't know one man living or dead who would EVER admit to having an affair on National TeeVee. Why should Clinton be any different? It was his PRIVATE life and had absolutely nothing to do with how he did his job as President...which was pretty damn good compared to what we're living through now, IMCPO.

Monica and Bill were having a CONSENSUAL affair. It wasn't HER fault and it wasn't HIS fault. 2 ADULTS engaged in what they wanted to be engaged in and it was no one's damn business even when the RW SOBs tried to make it our business....it wasn't and the MAJORITY of citizens agree with me AND the MAJORITY of citizens really don't give a rat's ass either.

Look at the crowds The Big Dog STILL pulls to this day. Most people have moved on from that repuke-made nightmare. May I suggest you do the same?

:thumbsup:

Look, I agree that the whole thing was grabbed and used by the Republicans. They're still using it. And that's disgusting.

But, Bill Clinton's zipper problem subverted his own tenure. And, blaming the series of women involved is dishonest.

situation that clearly removes his sex acts from the realm of "private". I don't know of any job in America, other than porn stars, that allow people to have sex in the business offices. That is universally frowned upon as being bad for business.

I've heard rumors that other Presidents have also had extramarital sex in the White House. If that is true, then they are just lucky that they didn't get discovered.

How surprising would it be. It's just like those portraits of Elizabeth 1 that figure her as an idealized world. We love our idealized presidents.

while married, he was having some sort of an affair with one of his slaves. And Ben Franklin turned out to be a very active ladies man, particularly on his visits to France.

But, I'm going to attempt to express what for me is a complex idea,

It might be that the most beautiful of any truths are those that show the viewed in exactly the most realistic of lights, void of stagecraft. I will leave it at that.

thoughts from you.

Ben Franklin never ran for President, that I'm aware of and neither faced the might of the corporate media through television and radio.

At one time 70+% of the people believed Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 in spite of the fact that 15 of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, they believed this because the corporate media drummed this in to their heads.

to teach in the public or private schools because of their open minded views on several subjects.

or not. I'm just talking about he political realties of the day as I see them.

think politicians or anyone else should use their public office for the site of sex.

The story I remember is that Sally Hemings was a stepsister of his adored wife, who he had an affaire with after the death of his wife. Marrying her was not feasible in VA in that time frame.

The bigger problem was lying under oath and straight faced to his staff, wife and country. It made no sense and it was dishonorable to do have sex in the oval office with a troubled girl near his daughter's age.

Shame on them for having no sympathy for her not being able to get a job. (Also kind of scary if she believes it is the Clinton's doing, I have a sneaking suspicion that she may get a "job" this summer if HRC gets the nomination.)

the marriage. But, in any event, he lost a lot of favor due to the relationship.

Who the hell cares who he slept with?

Do you want to sleep with him? Is that why you're so angry?

I love that man. It kills me to think where we are compared to where we would have been with him.

Love You Al!!

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and the subsequent corporate media lies. This only helped to make it close enough to steal.

they did nothing but slander and libel Al Gore beginning approximately two months after Clinton's impeachment. The primary assault was on his credibility Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet, discovered Love Canal, worked on the family farm, etc. and Bill Clinton only set the stage with that lie.

As I stated above, I don't care about Clinton's sex life, but this was the frame the corporate media used to enable Bush to power.

and Clinton's actions only helped them.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

You really do hate Hillary, don't ya.:eyes: Unbelievable.

without that incident and the subsequent media slanders and libel against Al Gore. If you're asking me if the Clintons betrayed Al Gore on purpose, all I can is, I believe it's a strong possibility.

I try not to hate anyone, but I see no reason to reward people; who I believe helped set the stage for Cheney/Bush.

Bill Clinton is just ridiculous.

:banghead:

the same holds true for the Democrats. The corporate media is the decider as who's message is amplified. The message Bill Clinton gave them was a lie, {unless you're one of those people that believe a B.J. isn't sex} telecast to the nation over and over.

The message Bush gave them was that he would restore honor and integrity to the White House.

You can bang your head against the wall all you want, but that won't change the fact that Bill Clinton's actions and Hillary's to some degree hurt Al Gore and helped George Bush.

you get your news from Rush. The election theft had nothing to do with Bill Clinton. As I stated before...that crap was in the works long before you knew Monica gave Bill a *GASP* BLOW JOB *GASP* *GASP* GASP*!

I do believe the election theft was in the works for longer than I knew about Monica and the useless lie to the nation.

The only question in my mind is did the Clintons join in on undermining Al Gore's chances in 2000? I believe that's a strong possibility. By my count Bill Clinton screwed Al Gore over at least twice, the lie to the nation and the wasted what seemed like 10 minute walk of self aggrandizement down the hall way during the 2000 convention, when he could spent that precious air time promoting Al Gore for President from the lectern. Bill Clinton, by his own words to Ken Burns, knew he was a drag and then proceeded to walk down that hall way regardless. That told me more than anything where his loyalty was.

right and left.

You're still attempting to revise history with your fiction that the Lewinsky scandal hurt Bill and/or Al.

heard any denials to the contrary.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/11/clinton200711

"During his all-night conversation with Ken Burns in June, Bill "spoke movingly of the Democratic National Convention that was coming," Burns recalled, "and how because he was on the backside of scandal and impeachment he had a more delicate role to play."

Now couple that with the wasted self aggrandizing walk down the hall way during the 2000 convention, unless you forgot about that.

Thanks.

Thanks to you.

heard any denials to the contrary?

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/11/cli...

"During his all-night conversation with Ken Burns in June, Bill "spoke movingly of the Democratic National Convention that was coming," Burns recalled, "and how because he was on the backside of scandal and impeachment he had a more delicate role to play."

Now couple that with the wasted self aggrandizing walk down the hall way during the 2000 convention, unless you forgot about that.

P.S. My bad, I did add a question mark to the end on this post.

But the deeper question would be: so?

Who knows, if true, what was behind it. What happens in a political campaign and what is said about it are often different things.

Bill may have said that, and it may have reflected Gore's opinion - or not. But nothing about it affirms the line of BS you've been talking today.

he was on the back side of scandal and impeachment.

If nothing else that tells me his recognition of the importance of humility. National prime time air time is precious and expensive, wasting that air time walking down a hall way, just so the cameras could gaze at his face was the opposite of humility if anything it was arrogant, it didn't help Al Gore one bit, and Clinton knew it.

I contend Al Gore didn't run away from Bill Clinton so much as Clinton ran away from and or betrayed Al Gore.

I'm too stick on actual facts and data to get sidetracked by a PR quote.

He certainly could have said that, and it certainly could have reflected Gore's feelings - but might have nothing to do with reality.

as Clinton took the walk down the hallway and that was reality.

And not even what would have contributed to such a thing.

Maybe as you say Clinton didn't say that, in which case he believes impeachment and lying to the nation is a virtuous thing and there's nothing delicate to it.

He would not have needed Florida. Nader would not have been a factor.
If you think that Clinton's behavior did not hurt in Tennessee, you are in major denial.

In 96, Bill won Tennessee. In 2000, Al Gore lost.
What do you think was the difference?

1996
Clinton, Bill received 909,146 votes and received 48.00 percent of the vote.
Dole, Bob received 863,530 votes and received 45.59 percent of the vote.

http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe1996/presge.htm

2000

Bush, George received 1,061,949 votes and received 51 percent of the vote.
Gore, Al received 981,720 and received 47 percent of the vote.

Despite the myths to the contrary, Tennessee cost Gore the race not Florida.
And Clinton hurt him big time in his home state.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html

because Jeb (THE PSYCHO'S BROTHER) helped move the process along.

Which he should have won. Who does not win their home state? Especially when he had been elected and re-elected
as their Senator.

Even McGovern won Massachusetts in 72. It was the only state, he won but he won his home state.

to win all ninety five counties in a Senate Race. The corporate media waged a relentless two year war by slander and libel against his credibility beginning just a few weeks after Clinton's impeachment, March of 99, "Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet" is just one of many. These lies and slanders would've been far less effective without Clinton's lie and impeachment.

I believe Al Gore would've won in a land slide with out all that, anyone can be demonized by the corporate media, should they decide to do so.

<snip>
It is more than the outrageous racial incidents: such as the way that black Nashville college students weren't permitted to vote even though they were registered, or the way that Tennessee State University, a historically black college, was the only university in Tennessee that didn't get a satellite voting place, or election office workers harassing black citizens who requested voter registration forms, or election commission officers refusing to give registration forms to NAACP representatives and sometimes, as in Chattanooga, actually taking them back. It's the inexplicable things, such as the way that polling places all over West Tennessee opened one to two hours late, or disappeared and reappeared somewhere else without telling anybody-but, seemingly, only in areas that were Black and/or poor. Or the missing pages from election rosters all over Nashville. Or the county where ballot boxes were opened and ballots handled. So many vote irregularities were reported that the mind starts to numb after awhile, to get buried under the sheer avalanche and grasp for some sort of meaning and order. So it's instructive to note that there were three areas of evidence that are more disturbing than any other.

The first was what NAACP officers generally refer to as "the Motor Voter disaster." This was the first election year in which Tennessee's Motor Voter bill took effect. Citizens could register to vote at Department of Motor Vehicle (DMV) offices statewide. The problem is, an unknown number of those applications never went through. There have been nearly 2,000 complaints to date. Allegedly, this occurred because the department failed to deliver completed forms to county election commissions. It's worth noting that there is no standard of delivery, nor supervision of any kind, when the applications are delivered from the Department of Safety to the counties-and that the DMV blames the voters.

The second was the disenfranchisement of former felons. Dr. Blondell Strong, Director for Prison Re-enfranchisement for the Tennessee Voter Empowerment Project 2000, narrowly prevented an attempt at disenfranchisement in Nashville. In Bolivar, former felons illegally lost their voting rights. Clifton Polk, head of the local Black Chamber of Commerce, was so infuriated that he filed an official complaint with the EEOC. Since felons don't automatically lose their voting rights in Tennessee the same way that they do in Florida, this issue remains a murky mess. However, this was the first year it had happened in the state.

The third-and maybe the strangest-is the way that certain voting precincts all over the state had a small fraction of the voting machines they should have had. That's what caused the mile-long lines in districts like Hadley Park and Upper Antioch. The really odd part is, all these districts seem to have been, once again, black, hispanic, and/or poor. According to election commissions, they simply didn't know there would be such a large turnout. Maybe so. However, according to Tennessee State Election Commissioner , Brook Thompson, each county sends a list of registered voters to the polling places. The precinct list actually kept by volunteers often didn't match the voting list. (Weird, huh?) Also, as state NAACP president Gloria Jean Sweetlove points out, the election commission knew about the NAACP Voter Empowerment Project, whose goal was to register new black voters. Also, the commission knew that there'd been a record turnout for early voting. So, once again, this remains a mystery. <snip>

http://www.counterpunch.org/tnfraud.html

Of course, like now, there were a bunch of fucktards claiming Gore was no different from Bush.

You have to factor in the SCOTUS decision.

Florida and the Supreme Court decision would have never happened.

And he made the mistake of trying to disassociate with his own best points: the administration he was part of.

Campaign in history, with the exception of Reagen's second term. That was primarily because of strength in the blueish areas of the nation, where there was a backlash against impeachment. He was hurt in the reddish areas by that same impeachment and Clinton lie and by a corporate media intent on slandering him, not to mention being attacked by Nader.

Personally I believe Clinton by his actions abandoned Al Gore first, not the other way around.

Make up your mind.

dominate this helped his popular vote count, but Clinton hurt him in the more moderate to conservative reddish areas, which cost Al Gore electoral votes, not to mention more popular votes on top of what he got.

I believe under the circumstance coming from only the second impeached Administration in history, being attacked from both sides and having a hostile corporate media set against him, Al Gore did exceptionally well. But the race was closer than it should have been, because of Clinton's actions and this helped the neocons steal the election.

Clinton came through impeachment with VERY HIGH APPROVAL RATINGS.

Gore never got close to the vote reflected Clinton's approval ratings.

Clinton was the best thing Al Gore had going for him in that campaign.

The coastal areas are generally more heavily populated than the more rural middle areas, where Al Gore was hurt the most.

Clinton could have been good for Al Gore, but Clinton blew it, the only question in my mind is did Clinton blow it on purpose and it damn sure looks suspicious to me.

His support was broad as was his approval, crossing party lines.

Gore made the mistake of not using one of his best assets: Bill Clinton. If he had Clinton's approval ratings, Bush couldn't have gotten close enough to steal the election.

Nader, Bush and the corporate media that were intent on slandering and libeling him because he empowered you and me and most everybody else, when he championed opening up the Internet for the people, thereby democratizing information, information being power, money and influence.

The best decision Bill Clinton ever made as President was his first one in choosing Al Gore as his Vice-President, then he proceeded to forget Fleetwood Mac's anthem at his own 92 convention "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow" and did exactly that, and we got Cheney/Bush as a result. Unless of course Bill Clinton started to thinking about the day after tomorrow as in 2008, whereas he could have the opportunity to come back to the White House via Hillary by sabotaging Al Gore's efforts in 2000.

campaign were as high as Clinton's after being impeached, he would have won the election with a healthy margin.

they helped to pump Nader up to pull votes from Gore. Al Gore didn't get impeached but he paid the price for Clinton's transgressions nonetheless in the moderate to conservative states. The corporate media is the wild card in this, I don't believe for one minute Bill Clinton would've won a third term against Bush, because the nation was sick of scandal and the corporate media enabled Bush to power by helping to keep the race close enough to steal.

as Bill Clinton's post impeachment, he would have won the presidency with a healthy margin.

True or false?

Bill Clinton would've won reelection, and ratings can change daily. Bill Clinton never had to run for President after the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal and his impeachment and I don't believe it was a coincidence that Hillary Clinton didn't run for the Senate in Arkansas.

The corporate media trashed and slandered Al Gore especially as he started to pull away from Bush and Vice-Presidents have less visibility than the President.

transfers to Al Gore to make him less popular.

Pathetic.

just logic. Bill Clinton's conduct didn't win approval, no matter how you badly you want to twist that. Al Gore was hurt in states where there was the least amount of margin of error because of the corporate media slander against him and the integrity issue, which Clinton gave the corporate media on a silver platter.

George W Bush had high popularity ratings after 9/11 because people wanted to rally around a leader, to some degree the same thing happened to Bill Clinton, but only on the strongly Democratic side.

Al Gore won the vote.

He would have done better if he'd run a better campaign.

Your theories are just speculation.

the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal and impeachment, that's not speculation.

Bill Clinton never championed opening up the Internet for the people while in Congress only to be trashed, slandered and libeled by the corporate media for his good faith efforts in empowering the people such as you, me and most everyone else that's not speculation either.

If you believe the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal and subsequent impeachment helped Al Gore in any way, that must be some mighty fine smoke.

In the end, Al's campaign was his, no matter how much you try to pin it on Bill.

Night.

just saying Bill Clinton didn't do him any favors.

Night to you.

Despite talk of how badly impeachment would be for Dems, they PICKED UP SEATS in the 98 elections.

One of Al Gore's mistakes was in not letting (yes, LETTING) Clinton campaign for him. Gore listened to crap like we see in this thread and told Clinton to stay away, so Clinton did.

.. so stats like that are meaningful only to people who don't think much.

of the votes than Clinton ever did or did you think about that?

Clinton had very high approval ratings even after impeachment.

Your Rush Limbaugh talking points are BS.

virtually everyone else on television and radio.

They didn't approve of his conduct and as I stated in the O.P. integrity was the issue, particularly in the moderate to conservative reddish states.

I don't believe it was just a coincidence that Hillary Clinton didn't run for Senator in Arkansas.

the investigation and impeachment were. You going back in time to side with ann coulter and limbaugh is a sign of desperation.

entire corporate media that reported on this scandal?

expect DUers to say.

the only reason the entire corporate media did it prior to 2000 and don't do now is because the whole damn thing was a back door attempt to keep Al Gore from coming to power, because he championed opening up the Internet for the people. The corporate media love corporatists, that's what it all boils down to, and the free flow of information threatens their monopolies on information and the exchange of ideas, so they gave Al Gore the Prometheus treatment.

Al Gore made the mistake with them by empowering the people by championing opening up the Internet.

but it didn't. The general public approved of Clinton and disapproved of the witch hunt.

Al Gore then ran a pretty lame campaign, and his biggest problem wasn't the corporations but the liberals who insisted he was a corporatist.

And with all of that Al Gore still actually won the votes, but lost the election due to a partisan SCOTUS decision.

Your memory is highly faulty.

Nader accused him of being just like Bush, something like Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb, and Nader said both parties were beholden to corporate interest, at the expense of the people. That was from the left.

Bush ran on "restoring honor and integrity to the white house" for two reasons, 1. because of Clinton's lie and impeachment and 2. because he knew the corporate media was in his pocket and would slander and libel Al Gore without regard to the truth, unless you believe the ludicrous lie that "Al Gore ever actually claimed to have invented the Internet", among many others. The common denominator was an attack against credibility, anyone can be demonized by the corporate media, should they put their mind to it. They would go to put Dean's attempt at cheering his troops up on endless loop and play it over and over. They would go on to convince 70+%of the American People that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11.

The corporate media pumped up Nader as well because they knew he would draw from the Democrats, they pretty much ignored Buchanan because they knew he would draw more from the Republicans.

You might approve of being lied to, you might even approve of adultery, but believe it or not, there are many people around the nation that don't.

So you can stop making it into some sort of popular idea that people bought into.

It didn't work.

"You might approve of being lied to, you might even approve of adultery, but believe it or not, there are many people around the nation that don't."

Most people knew he was the victim of a witchhunt, It was reflected in the polling. Your revision of history is a failure.

in the more moderate to conservative reddish states, where there is a smaller margin of error.

I was outnumbered here and I can't tell how many times I heard people say, I did not have sex with that woman and Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet all in the same sentence.

Gore's biggest error was to try to disassociate himself with Clinton.

attention.

Lying to the American People on national television was politically stupid at the very least especially in the reddish moderate to conservative states.

but it was close enough to steal and with out that lie and the corporate media transferring the sins of the President on to the Vice-President, Al Gore would be residing in the White House. That lie set the frame for their attack.

They don't have repuke "Think Tanks" for nothing. Election thievery had absolutely nothing to do with Bill Clinton. Had Al Gore not run, they would have done the same thing....John Kerry ring a bell? Max Cleland, maybe? How about Paul Wellstone's seat? Maybe, Mr. Matulka's seat stolen by ES&S Chuck Hagel in 2002?

Unless they have an open marriage, in which case they most certainly presented themselves in a fraudulent manner. It might not matter to you, or to me, or to most of the people on this board, but I will say this:

Even most rank and file democrats aren't ready for a president who has an open marriage, which is why Bill's escapades still matter. Everyone knows that the happy little family scenario they present is fake. It's going to matter to some voters.

I'll vote for Hillary, but she's by far not my first choice.

But inquiring minds want to know.

Even Mr. Sarkozy is finding this out!

in a public place and in the highest office of the land and later in court and in the press was put in our faces.

If you're an elected official and decide to have sex in public, you can expect at very least for people to question your judgment and you can also say goodby to the privacy defense because YOU took it public.

in my opinion.

character beyond the obvious (I voted for him twice and would again, but I know he's a serial philanderer and can't be trusted for marital promises. the boy can't help himself) He was hunted for TWENTY YEARS by psychotic idiots and he KNEW IT. Yet he still does this shit knowing what a shit storm it means for him, his family and all of us who want to support what he does as a president and philanthropist. HE DOES IT KNOWING THAT!

He's either pathologically unable to understand how stupid that is or he thrives on thinking he can have his cake and eat it too. It cut his effectiveness as a president and hurt Al Gore. Al and Hillary and all the others believed him when he lied to them and they went out and defended him, believed in him and caught the torch end of hell when it became clear he lied to them.

Maybe lying is the natural response to being found out. I would have lied too. But also, it illustrates something about him, about his willingness to go after private thrills at the expense of those he is supposed to love best and the country. He knew what they would do with this if they could prove it -we all suffered with him over it for years- but he did it anyway. Even partisans have to see this as a serious problem in a man with many gifts. All the damned gifts in the world won't erase this and keep it from being a distraction and a burden on our progress.

What good man would hurt his closest and most dear members of their family for his own personal gratifications? If you would never allow this between you and your spouse, between your family members and their spouses, you can't minimize it for him. He needs to shut the hell up. Be the 'wife' this time, Bill, and let Hillary be the candidate. This may be between a wife and husband and I agree, but the moment you made it public with lying ball faced to the camera- understandable or no- you made it all our problems.

And I agree with a poster farther up. Having sexual relations on the job, especially with subordinates is lowclass and wrong.

Craig.

Last photo I saw of her was her in Paris displaying her biography "Monica's Story" at a Paris department store as part of her European book tour.

Instead, he tried to triangulate the situation to his advantage.

that if Clinton was found guilty by the Senate and removed from office VP Al Gore would have been sworn in as President? I did, and it possibly could have freed him from the burdens of Bill's indiscretions, he would have been running as the incumbent. Anyway, I believe that the right wingnuts who spent all the time and money were devious enough to have this as their plan all along, keeping him in office and thus making the entire administration appear to be co-conspiritors. Thereby enabling the Supreme Court to select numbnuts as President. You may need your tinfoil hat to figure this out, but I believe it was possible.

I believe all of this will resurface in the G.E. The only question I have is did the Clintons at some point make a deal with the devil, Cheney announced up that he would never run for President?

Hillary Clinton competed with Al Gore for money in California at his own fundraiser while she was running for the Senate seat in New York, this after Bush literally set records raising money.

Al Gore would have run as a semi-incumbent. We could have had 9 years of him. :cry: :cry: :cry:

I replied to myself, I must be losing it, meant for you.

I am glad to see that I'm not the only one who has felt this way. And I do hope that this WILL resurface in the GE.

that I'm not the only one who has felt this way. And I do hope that this WILL resurface in the GE.

I have no doubt that in strong Democratic blue states, there was a back lash against what was perceived as I described as a witch hunt. The same didn't hold true in the reddish states where the margin of error is smaller.

I don't have them handy, but they're out there.

If nothing else common sense should tell you, people in the more moderate to conservative areas of the nation don't approve of adultery and they don't approve of being lied to.

Why on earth do you believe Bush ran on "restoring honor and integrity to the White House"?

Bush ran on hating Clinton, and on being a Christian. He got a plurality of religious right votes, and with the right votes from the SCOTUS got into office.

You have a profoundly flawed grasp of history.

He ran on "restoring honor and integrity to the White House", that was his slogan. I'm not saying Bush ever intended to do so, that was just one of many lies to follow from him, but that was his marketing.

no matter how much you pretend it did.

CNN/Time polling after all was exposed shows that the majority thought the investigation SHOULD NOT continue, and that the investigation had gone too far.

Your attempt at a history revision is a failure.

"The Lewinsky Business".

Yeah, right.

as much as some people here think about Clinton's. I didn't think about my own cock that much when I was 15. Get over it.

Clearly you're obsessed with what Clinton did with his.

Actually, to be fair, I think you're probably NOT obsessed with it - you're just using it as a tool to bash Hillary, and that's even worse. You're PRETENDING to adopt right-wing arguments in order to drag down a Democrat. That's despicable.

:eyes:

There is a difference between a cock and integrity.

:-)

crashing down around them. If people are tuning into that and getting upset over a 10 year old marital infidelity then it's not Bill Clinton's fault we're in this mess. I'll put it this way, "It's the stupidity stupid!" If this country is so hung up over a simple affair that it can't pull it's head out of it's ass then we deserve to go down the tubes.

Honestly time to get over it and move on folks. We've got a truck load of fish guts to fry.

behavior in enabling corrupt, incompetence to power are as tied together as conjoined twins. It's all corporate to them and I also believe Bill Clinton's actions only aided that endeavor.

The media had no rights to his penis, anymore so than they have to Micheal Jacksons penis. Then again this is the same media that loves to get crotch shots of Spears without panties. They even make a game out of it now.

Bill said he didn't inhale when we all know he did, of course he is going to lie in front of GOD and the LAW about getting a blowjob! He is the FUCKING POTUS.

Did we EVER in 8 fucking years do ANYTHING like that to George? HIS media? Code piece on the carrier deck. Tim and Tweety nearly went into cardiac arrest over the event.

Dignity left that WH long, long ago.

But yeah, I agree.

Monica Lewinsky", he was speaking the quite literal truth, and far more of it than any OTHER President ever did, before or since.
Some might argue, and have so argued, that he was being exquisitely precise, but that is very different, and in fact supports him.

My dictionary (American Heritage): "sexual relations", Definition 1 (which I presume BC was using, as it is the common vernacular usage)= "Sexual intercourse".

This they never had.

have a teenage daughter going out on a date, and you tell her not to have sex, B.J.s are okay?

I doubt too many people use the same standard for their own daughters as they do for elected officials. But if you do-- good for you...

B.J.s aren't sex. I just used teenage daughter as an analogy. A B.J. is a long ways from a handshake, a hug, or even a kiss on the cheek. To my knowledge you can't get a sexually transmitted disease from the latter examples.

While that might be true in that area of his life, to argue that on his behalf is sort of weird.

Hey! What a coincidence! Rush Limbaugh was saying that very thing about ten years ago... but like I said, I'm sure it's a coincidence that so many people are using his lines ten years after.

not high school.

doesn't effect that either.

and the Republicans were simply engaging in a witch hunt.

knowing the Republicans were engaging in a witch hunt foolishly turned a family betrayal or personal matter if you prefer, in to national one and gave them integrity ammunition on a silver platter. Thereby turning that witch hunt for some people in the nation in to a legitimate enterprise.

YES, THEN. He had that particular foresight, at any rate.

BTW~~~Everybody forgets:
At THAT point, Monica had not revealed any details. THUS, for the MAN to say he DID, INDEED, have (use whatever definition you want) "sexual relations" with her, a woman, would have been crude, boorish, caddish, and ungentlemanly in the extreme.

As was and is anyone's interest in it. It was Ken Starr who made the salacious details public, not Bill Clinton.

Oh, and that split hair? It's called a "dictionary definition".

If I get a B.J. in the Oval Office, I'm damn sure not going to forget it, particularly if it's not with my wife.

Bill Clinton said to the nation on television, not in court I did not have sexual relations with that woman and then he named her Monica Lewinsky.

I suppose if someone gets a sexually transmitted disease through oral sex, that wouldn't count either as it's not possible according to the dictionary definition of sexual relations. Maybe we'll just call that friendly relations transmitted disease.

Yes Ken Starr made it public and it was a witch hunt and Bill Clinton gave him the ammunition to do it with.

:shrug:

So, is Senator Clinton's campaign a triumph for women or is it not? That's the question women for Hillary have to ask themselves. How many women have the Clintons thrown under the bus so far?

I imagine there will be many, many people Democratic voters will vote for or against a candidate depending on what the GOP machine has in store for that particular candidate.

I imagine many people will not vote for Sen. Clinton simply because they're more afraid of the MSM/GOP reaction than they are confident of their own convictions(which is, oddly enough triangulation by the voter in the trendy vernacular and voting without the strength of your own conviction in the reality of the here and now).

I imagine many, many people will begin a quasi-Victorian puritanism in reaction to Sen. Clinton's campaign. Mentioning serial adultery (just like Limbaugh did)

As for me, I'll vote on who I believe to be the best qualified candidate, rather than who or how I think the GOP or the MS will attack that candidate-- now *that* would be triangulating...

were with the Clintons, until they threw Al Gore under the bus.

I believe the corporate media trashed the best qualified person for the job since Franklin Roosevelt and the Clintons only helped in that endeavor. This is not just about sex, it's about political stupidity at it's best or betrayal at it's worst.

"were with the Clintons, until they threw Al Gore under the bus. "

Or, more accurately, 'until you *believe* they threw Al Gore..."

It's political stupidity all right-- the only question remaining as I see it is *who* is engaging in the stupid behavior...


"This is not just about sex,..." Damn-- Rush Limbaugh's own words, ten years later... you could have at least added, "you can't make this stuff up, folks-- now a word from our sponsors"

Its not like they had actual sex.

My husband comes home and tells me a woman gave him a blowjob, and "It wasn't really sex, honey!"

Heads would roll.

Well, maybe just one, and it wouldn't take a guillotine - just a sharp knife. :wtf:

LOL

I don't know one woman who thinks that a blow job isn't sex.

I know a few women who don't think BJ's are sex.

I don't know one woman who doesn't think that a blow job isn't sex.

So just what is sex? Inserting a penis into a vagina?

Anal sex? Tell me, do lesbians ever have sex? Or are they just pretending since one of them doesn't have a penis? :sarcasm:

:rofl:

:rofl:

:rofl:

:rofl:

Some of these arguments that a blow job isn't sex would make good arguments for why only heterosexuals should be able to marry.

Everyone else is just pretending to have sex?

geesh

can we get real.

I wasn't paying attention to politics back then. But now that I do, I'm sure you are dead on here about Gore.

The powers that be will do anything to keep someone like Gore or Edwards of JKF or JFK Jr. OUT of office.

There are plenty of ways for the powers that be to kill off their enemies. :puke:



BTW-I NEVER blamed what happened on Monica. NO WAY NO HOW. Monica was just a romantic fool who thought she was in love.

p.s. The View is an utter trash heap since Rosie left-they should be boycotted. :puke:

Republican leaning voter and former co-worker of mine who said when Clinton selected Al Gore as his running mate, that she believed Al Gore was making a big mistake by becoming his V.P. I sluffed it off at the time, not believing this could ultimately hurt Al Gore.

I started becoming concerned as the investigations just continued to drag out, year after year, and it was on the news every day and night even after the first investigator, regarding Whitewater, Paula Jones etc. said there was nothing there only to be followed by Starr and more investigations, but the last thing I expected after all that was for Clinton to then give them ammunition on a silver platter.

saying something to the effect of, he believed the Democratic Party had been renewed, After much pressure from his supporters, he reentered the race but damage had been done to him, regarding his fickleness, so in that regard, simply choosing Al Gore as his running mate helped Bill Clinton.

Would you all get off this crap! It was none of our business. Some of you fools are as bad as repubicans. Why are we even rehashing this crap. He never should have been asked if he had sex with that woman.

"Yeah. I boinked her. So what?"

for Al Gore.

And then watch the fucking fundies heads explode.

Everyone involved was a consenting adult. There were precisely two people on the planet whose business it expressly was, and their names are Chelsea and Hillary.

Beyond that, yes, he lied to the camera, but he never should have been put in that position in the first place. It was ridiculous to even be talking about it; it's even more ridiculous to still be talking about it.

will only set us up for a fall later. I don't believe the corporate media have changed one bit as is obvious by their treatment of more progressive candidates. There still dictating to the American People as to their choices and I don't appreciate it.

It's already "later" in terms of still talking about it.

And look, I agree about the Corporate Media, and I agree Al Gore got the shaft from the media in 2000... but blowjob or not, they would have run the same playbook.

And nobody wanted Al Gore to run more than yours truly, but in the end, he chose not to this time around. Too damn bad.

He said exactly what happened, that is not a lie.....:hi:

:hi:

I've come to the conclusion woman are treated like shit in this country.

why, when the investigation got off track from Whitewater considerations, did he deign to answer any questions whatever? We all know that the correct answer to those questions was (and is) "It's none of your ****ing business!!"

Why would he address those (thus, leading to his perjuring himself)?

next time i see him.

(and Gilligan drove me crazy!)

anyone who thinks that getting a blow job from a fan is on the same level as full-blown intercourse needs to get a refresher course about the birds and the bees

clinton told no lie, he spoke in the language of NORMAL people, who say "fuck" and "sex" for "sexual intercourse" and if they mean to talk about ORAL sex, they'll SAY "oral sex," "blowjobs," and so on

sheesh


anybody who is still worried that clinton got a BJ has no right to speak about "integrity" because they don't have the integrity to know what's really important in life

you don't throw away a marriage of decades over a blowjob unless you're just plain stupid and never loved the person to begin with, anybody who criticizes hillary for being a loving, decent, forgiving wife wouldn't have voted for her anyway because that's totally looking for bullshit excuses not to support her

I don't a damn about his sex life, political stupidity and or betrayal is a different matter.

I do have one question though, does this mean you can't get a "sexually transmitted disease" through a blow job, because it's not sex?