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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:25 PM
Original message
Recall, Expulsion, Impeachment of Congress Members
Given that this keeps coming up, (indicative of our deep, abiding love for Joe Lieberman), I wanted to post a link to probably the ultimate resource for these FAQs. Please consider bookmarking for others when this question comes up.

**************************************************************************************
From Report for Congress: Order Code RL 30016: Recall of Legislators and the Removal of Members of Congress from Office
http://lugar.senate.gov/CRS%20reports/Recall_of_Legislators_and_the_Removal_of_Members_of_Congress_from_Office.pdf

(requested by Senator Lugar, 3/20/03 and prepared by Legislative Attorney, Jack Maskell
Note, the document is in adobe acrobat pdf format)

****************************************************************************************

Note: there are 1. no means for state voter recall; states do have the ability to decide the means by which a vacancy is filled, either by governor designation or special election. 2. Members of Congress are not susceptible to State action to expel them (other than criminal matters, of course), 3. or to executive branch efforts to expel; 4. they are only susceptible to possible expulsion by fellow members of Congress.


Summary
Under the United States Constitution and congressional practice, Members of
Congress may have their services ended prior to the normal expiration of their
constitutionally established terms of office by their resignation or death, or by action
of the House of Congress in which they are a Member by way of an “expulsion,” or
by a finding that in accepting a subsequent public office deemed to be “incompatible”
with congressional office, the Member has vacated his congressional seat.
Under Article I, Section 5, clause 2, of the Constitution, a Member of Congress
may be removed from office before the normal expiration of his or her constitutional
term by an “expulsion” from the Senate (if a Senator) or from the House of
Representatives (if a Representative) upon a formal vote on a resolution agreed to by
two-thirds of the Members of the respective body present and voting. While there
are no specific grounds for an expulsion expressed in the Constitution, expulsion
actions in both the House and the Senate have generally concerned cases of perceived
disloyalty to the United States, or the conviction of a criminal statutory offense which
involved abuse of one’s official position.
Each House has broad authority as to the
grounds, nature, timing, and procedure for an expulsion of a Member. However,
policy considerations, as opposed to questions of authority, have appeared to restrain
the Senate and House in the exercise of expulsion when it might be considered as
infringing on the electoral process, such as when the electorate knew of the past
misconduct under consideration and still elected or re-elected the Member.
As to removal by recall, the United States Constitution does not provide for nor
authorize the recall of United States officers such as Senators, Representatives, or the
President or Vice President, and thus no Member of Congress has ever been recalled
in the history of the United States.
The recall of Members was considered during the
time of the drafting of the federal Constitution in 1787, but no such provisions were
included in the final version sent to the States for ratification, and the specific
drafting and ratifying debates indicate an express understanding of the Framers and
ratifiers that no right or power to recall a Senator or Representative from the United
States Congress exists under the Constitution. Although the Supreme Court has not
needed to directly address the subject of recall of Members of Congress, other
Supreme Court decisions, as well as the weight of other judicial and administrative
decisions, rulings and opinions, indicate that: (1) the right to remove a Member of
Congress before the expiration of his or her constitutionally established term of office
is one which resides exclusively in each House of Congress as established in the
expulsion clause of the United States Constitution, and (2) the length and number of
the terms of office for federal officials, established and agreed upon by the States in
the Constitution creating that Federal Government, may not be unilaterally changed
by an individual State, such as through the enactment of a recall provision or a term
limitation for a United States Senator or Representative. Under Supreme Court
constitutional interpretation, since individual States never had the original sovereign
authority to unilaterally change the terms and conditions of service of federal
officials agreed to and established in the Constitution, such a power could not be
“reserved” under the 10th Amendment.



The full report is available at the link above. I hope we can finally put to rest the constant barrage of repeated "let's just recall" Lieberman posts with this. :shrug:
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. If DUers might consider a K&R,
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 06:40 PM by hlthe2b
so that those who have been asking the question might have a chance to see before the thread disappears, I'd appreciate it. :toast:
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Champion Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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PoiBoy Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Great info... thanks for posting...
K&R..!!

:hi:
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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. Every time liberworm squawks the "recall" threads start...
So this needs to be posted periodically. Unfortunately the voters of Ct made their bed and we all have to lie in it. K and R
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. Recommended!
Members of DU ought to be better informed when it comes to things like this!
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. K'ed & R'ed and Bookmarked!
:dem:
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. Interesting thought, though....
...could the Connecticut LEGISLATURE recall him?

Of course, going that route would give Rell the chance to appoint an actual Republican instead of a stealth Republican, so it wouldn't help us.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. No, state legislature could not recall, only congress can expel
I share the frustration on this score...absolutely
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. Perhaps Connecticuters (Connecticutians?) would consider following the model. . .
. . .suggested in this proposal to "Recall" Pat Roberts (w/ charges specific to Lieberman of course)


. . .Although Kansas does not have state-level ballot initiative/referendum or recall (which would only apply to state elected officials anyway), Kansans can "recall" Senator Pat Roberts by circulating petitions, passing resolutions in the local organizations (for example, local Republican or Democratic clubs), or seeking to pass a city council or county commission resolution.

If you are angry with Senator Roberts for his failure to "to provide vigilant legislative oversight over the intelligence activities of the United States to assure that such activities are in conformity with the Constitution and laws of the United States," chance are your neighbors are too. Editorials such as the one published by the Wichita Eagle on February 18th (link) are indicative of the increasing number of Americans who are appalled and enraged by the illicit actions being committed by Bush and Cheney and the members of Congress who are rubber-stamping (or colluding in) those actions.
Sample Resolution

Resolution Regarding Senator Pat Roberts

Whereas;
As Chairman of the United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Senator Pat Roberts has made it impossible for the committee "to provide vigilant legislative oversight over the intelligence activities of the United States to assure that such activities are in conformity with the Constitution and laws of the United States."

Through action and omission, Senator Pat Roberts has obstructed the investigation of activities that fall within the jurisdiction of the Select Committee on Intelligence and no other. Specifically, Senator Roberts has consistently obstructed efforts to investigate executive branch activities that involve serious charges against George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, and other executive branch officials, including, but not limited to:

50 USC Sec. 1809--Unauthorized Surveillance
18 USC Sec. 844(e)--Bomb Threat (Mushroom Clouds in 45 Minutes)
18 USC Sec. 2441--War Crimes

And whereas;
There is no doubt that, at a minimum, George W. Bush's program of surveillance of Americans without a warrant violates 50 USC Sec. 1809--Unauthorized Surveillance.

And whereas;
In the absense of independent investigation, the people of the United States of America must to assume that W. Bush's "early warning system"/criminal surveillance program involves criminal activities and violations of privacy that were formerly part of the Total Information Awareness program -- a program that the people of the United States unequivocally rejected and that Congress, in response to the will of the people, put an end to.

And whereas;
Senator Pat Roberts is abusing his position as chairman to keep the Select Committee on Intelligence from investigating the scope of George W. Bush's criminal surveillance program as required to "assure that such activities are in conformity with the Constitution and laws of the United States."

Rather than leading the investigation to expose and end the criminal program as required by his position, Senator Roberts colluded with the perpetrators to develop a scheme to (1) ensure that the program is never investigated and (2) provide a mechanism by which the criminal activity, whatever its full scope may be, can continue.

And whereas;
In obstructing the investigation of a known crime, Senator Pat Roberts became an accessory to that crime after the fact. In participating in the scheme to enable the criminal program to continue, Senator Pat Roberts became an accomplice.

And whereas;
Senator Pat Roberts has repeatedly abused the power entrusted him by the people of Kansas to aid and abet George W. Bush's efforts to conceal the extent of his criminal surveillance program and conspire to ensure George W. Bush could continue a criminal surveillance program of unknown scope.

Therefore, be it resolved;
That the people of _________________ County Kansas call for the immediate resignation of Senator Pat Roberts.

Be it further resolved;
That true copies of this resolution will be delivered to Senator Pat Roberts, the Wichita Eagle, and the leadership of the United States Senate.

_______________County/City/Org Kansas
Agreed to this XX day of Month, 2006. . .
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. That is a petition to try to press him to resign... They can't expel.
Edited on Sat Feb-24-07 03:51 PM by hlthe2b
There would be "no teeth" in the petition's demands.. Kansas can not expel a sitting Senator any more than Connecticut can. So that this petition drive is largely symbolic (unless by chance Pat Roberts actually had some ethics and personal honor--which of course we know not to be the case).

As per the legal definitions detailed in the document, neither the State of Kansas (or CT, or CO, or any other state) nor the Voters have that ability (unfortunately)
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Opps. That's pointed out in the doc it was pulled from -- which I neglected to link to.
Edited on Sat Feb-24-07 06:56 PM by pat_k
Here's the link I meant to include.

http://january6th.org/recall_sen_roberts.html

As noted in the intro (not included in the post above):

"Currently, there is no statutory mechanism at the state level to recall members of the United States Congress. According to http://lugar.senate.gov/CRS%20reports/Recall_of_Legislators_and_the_Removal_of_Members_of_Congress_from_Office.pdf">Recall of Legislators and the Removal of Members of Congress from Office (Congressional Research Service, March 20, 2003). . .


Although "toothless," like the city and county-level resolutions to impeach Bush and Cheney, when an elected body goes "on the record" it carries weight -- more weight than a call for action from an individual citizen or a even from a good government organization. Politicians are well aware of the effort required to "herd cats" and get the required consensus, even when it's "just" a town council.

I view all efforts to lobby members of Congress to act or bring attention to the abhorrent acts of a given Member to be worthwhile. Unlike an individual act or the act of a group that already exists, I think efforts that require us to engage the people in our community -- people who may otherwise be seething in silence, with no outlet for their frustration -- can be particularly worthwhile. There are always potential rewards along the way -- not the least of which are local connections and lessons that can be applied to other efforts. (e.g., discovering people skills and resources you had no idea existed "own backyard.")

In any case, just tossed it out as a model for possible action to be taken or left.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. It's a start though... Keep us posted on what becomes of it...
Pat ROberts is despicable..
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Mainly posted as an example -- perhaps come up with a
. . . similar resolution for Lieberman.

Back in March when I suggested it, a couple people connected to DFA groups in Kansas expressed interest, but to my knowledge no concerted effort got rolling. (I'm not a Kansan myself, but seeing some outraged posts about his behavior, I drafted the proposal as a possible outlet).

Thought re-posting mught plant a seed -- give the basic idea another chance at life with a different target.
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badgerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. So it boils down to this...There's no "Lemon Law" for Senators.
Unless...or until he gets caught doing something patently illegal or criminal, we're stuck with Lieberman.

Thanks bunches, Connecticut. :grr:
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. good luck
trying to educate people here. I've probably see 20 different "can we recall XXX" threads.

No matter often the question is asked and answered, somebody else pops up to suggest it, as if it's never been thought of before.

We need a constitution quiz before letting people post :P
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