I'm 27 years old, the only president I've really experienced is Bush

The first presidential election I was able to vote in was stolen. Then we had 9/11. Then we went to war based on lies. Then we had a candidate with an impeccable war record, the result of which was the birth of the term "swift-boat". I'm looking forward to November, but if things don't go well I don't know what I'm going to do.

26 and im so disillusioned about all of the top3, hoping for the best, expecting the worst here.

if you were involved or invested in the 2004 race alot, or rallying against the war in 03, or at Union Square after 9/11, it's hard to believe again, much less fall in love with a candidate. I live in NYC was lucky enough to do all 3. And I was real down on the future after 04 until I got involved in a winning campaign for an amazing man Cory Booker in Newark. It did put some hope back in me.

been over there too.

one anti war protest for me -- during the RNC -- otherwise I keep my anti-war sentiments to myself and friends and places like this.

Had to go to iraq, good thing though, I was just commo so I didn't have to fire my weapon and mostly what my job was, was making sure soldiers could phone home and use email.

and was in 19th Group SF on 9/11 which led to six months in afghanistan in 2002. One of the best experiences of my life in many ways, worst in others.

For those of us who aren't familiar.

I passed out during the RNC protest from heat exhaustion. I knew it was a bad idea for me to go march in that heat with my health issues but I had to make a stand against those Godwanking fuckwits.

Politics is full of disappointments. People older than you have been just as disappointed, but we know that being cynical is just wasted time. If you want hope, volunteer for a candidate who's more to your liking. You won't get everything you want out of one politician, though. Nothing is perfect.

When you people make sobering assessments about their future -- i find it wise, not realistic. The question is -- what are you gonna do about it? How can we fix it?

Sorry, Kiddo--you have to fix things. We fixed things that our parent's generation had screwed up, or we tried to. What will you do---give up?

After serving the nation in uniform twice and in war, quitting a lucrative job to join Kerry's campaign full time/ unpaid for 18 months and working on various issue specific policy initiatives and non-profits, I think I am DOING just fine. On the other hand, I am having a hard time deciding whether I want to have children and thinking their future through.

You've been through alot, but who hasn't? I have 55 years of stories like yours. You can't just refuse to live a full life because you've decided to be so cynical that you're afraid.

one horrible atrocity after another, if everyone their had that attitude the place would be desolate cause no one wanted to have kids.

about the current field and their propects of altering our future and the state of politics. In our field and our future, I see potential out there, but i see reality too.

and I can see history. I read books. I understand that every state eventually becomes a failed state through one means or another. Countries have their ups and downs but eventually they go down and stay down and then their is a new political rebirth and a new entity emerges. This may not be the end of america but bush is just the start of a very dark period in america. I am a citizen of a nation that has committed horrible atrocities, maybe not the most in scope or scale, but deffinatly it does not act like a civilized country should. I'm cynical? I think that if you don't see the danger and what subversive elements are at work beyond politics then you have your head in the sand.

I enjoy the struggle, but I'm not gonna lie to myself either. I can't see the eventual president doing any good, the best they will do is hold the status quo. I will stay informed and struggle against the decline of america the best I can and then when the first american citizen is yanked off the street and disappeared I am going to leave. Simple as that.

*edit I do of course Hope to hell I'm wrong and that this country turns its ass around and becomes the progressive dynamo that it once was. but thats what I hope.

But I don't have to lie to myself about the glaring defects in all off the candidates or about the forces that exist in this time beyond national borders. I live therefore I am relevant. But I am a realist.

obviously there are a lot of negative trends that are going on. But I do think that things are swinging back in our favor. Watershed events like 9/11 that change the course of history don't happen every day. We're at the end of an era that has been the opposite of what we stand for but and it's not going to change overnight. The bonus is that GWB scorched the earth so to speak and so many people are seeing how bad it is that they are rejecting those philosophies now. We're not at the progressive utopia that you and I both want, but I'll take it one day at a time, one election at a time and one campaign at a time.

if its the end of empire its the end of empire. The day will come but no use worrying which date right.

I guess my point is that there are some cultural things that we just cannot change. It seems like America as a whole is moderate to conservative. You can't change that overnight though. This country is too big. I want leadership to help move the focus to the left. It might take 20 years and I don't have any options but to ride it out.

:evilgrin:

Cue the birds & bees :rofl:

Seems like a good thing to do on the day after the worst day in American history.

Unless they steal it. Be alert everyone, keep your camera phones handy

My daughter is ten and only knows *.

At the time of the 2004 Presidential election, there were an estimated 221,256,931 citizens eligible to cast a vote. Of that, only 174,800,000 (about 79%) were registered to vote. A total of 122,294,978 votes were cast for President, meaning that only 70% of registered voters voted and only 55% of eligible voters voted. (Numbers from http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html)

When 98,961,953 Americans vote for "None of the above," it should send a pretty clear message. For whatever reason, though, no one seems to be listening.

Please tell me that's not what I just read.

That is the logical fallacy which states, "Do as I tell you or something evil will crawl out from under your bed and eat you."

All I did was point out that nearly half of all potential voters chose not to fill out a ballot in 2006. Anything more than that is your own delusion.

Not because I'd expect it of you particularly, but it seems to be the only way people on DU communicate anymore.

I asked a question in hopes that I was misunderstanding. I'm very glad to know that's not what you meant, so thanks at least for responding. I'm still not quite sure what your point was, but at least now I can put my "delusion" aside. :eyes:

When I was in school {mumble} years ago, it was a sign that one was taking the debate and rhetoric classes too seriously.

And my apologies too. The particular fallacy of argumentum in Boogeyman gets used so often around here, I reacted a bit quickly.

:pals:

I could have worded my question better. And it was actually just the term "delusion" I was talking about. But it certainly isn't the first time it's been suggested that I'm delusional. ;)

:pals:

VERy bastardized latin for "don't let the bastards grind you down"

in other words, no matter what happens, don't give up hope, don't give up PERIOD. some of us lived through nixon and ray-gun, and we are still here. I refuse to let those bastards win, no matter what they do. they are counting on us giving up, and I just am not going to let that happen.

The election was decided by the laws of the State of Florida which prevented it from being
"stolen". And if there was an impeachable offense impeachment proceedings would have already taken place. You can replace the term swift-boat with truth and you have the reason Kerry lost.

your rock, please.

This is like a visit from the Easter Bunny!

You are right about Florida.

It was a coup d'etat brought to us by the Judicial System.
And also by the fact that the Clintons stood aside to better ensure the Wife's vhance to run for President on down the road.

The shenanigans included making sure that the vote counting stopped. This fact made it not possible to sue under Florida law - incertain cases you can only contest the election by demanding a recount, but the votes have to all be counted at elast once for that to happen legally.

BTW it was announced in the New York Times that Al Gore did win the vote in Florida - but the announcement came on September 12, 2001.

Anyway you are gonna learn an awful lot. Enjoy your stay!

Vote, bitch and fight again!

The time under Bush has dragged by that slowly and it seems like he's been in office forever.

Haven't they proven to you how worthy they are? Don't you feel safer with them in power?

Are you better off now than in 2000?

:sarcasm:

What about Clinton, he was President when you were a teenager.

I remember back to my first President when I was 7 years old.

I didn't achieve political awareness until I got the chance to vote for Gore. Like most people, college was when I woke up.

The people we elect effect the future, even when the elected person is long gone.

Just look at Bush, we will be dealing with his mess 30 years from now.

I voted for the first time a day after my 18th birthday, and have only missed a few elections when I was in the Army.

but I don't know if I would have wanted it to be the all consuming fire that it is for me now. I'm glad that I was able to stay wide eyed about the country for a while.

I've never missed an election since I was able to vote.

I had older brothers facing the draft, so I was as politically "active" as a 12-year-old could be (passing out flyers, etc.) and politics was a huge topic in junior high and high school because of the draft.

That said, referring back to your original post, the disappointment doesn't get easier with age. The night Reagan beat Carter (and I STILL remember parts of Carter's concession speech) I got riproaring drunk and went to bed with someone I absolutely should not have. But 12 long years later, I was soooo elated with the Clinton/Gore victory that I cried for hours. Biggest disappointment was 2000, when I went to bed believing that Gore had won, then experienced a literal rude awakening.

The deal is: keep caring.

"I've been loving you too long to stop now."

At this point I've spent so much of my life reading, studying, thinking and talking about politics and the state of our country that I can't give it up. It might actually make my life easier to ignore what's happening but I can't do it.

My two brothers were in VietNam, both came back in one piece.

We watched the war on the news every night, there was no way to escape it.

The 1960's shaped me big time.

I couldn't wait to vote.

I had the 90's to go through. What a cushy existence. Nothing weighty on my shoulders.

My second grade teacher paused as the principal walked into our classroom. He whispered something into her ear. She looked stunned. She took another pause and told us that the school buses would be coming to take us home, and our parents would explain why later.

I swear on my life, I knew JFK was dead. I don't know how. I knew. And when I got home, that's exactly what my parents told me.

My personal belief is that anyone who experienced JFK in their lifetime...with all of his faults and human flaws...tends to look at Presidents in a different way from those who didn't.

Sorry about your experience with Bush, but brighter days are ahead.

:patriot:

even if we're stuck with a Republican come november, the country will be better off.

Because all the same advisers and politicos will be in all the high places. Bush appointed people who had been around since the 1950s (lying all those years). You think a McCain would find new blood?? Nooooo way. The lying and criminality would continue.

I thought Nixon was the bottom of the barrel. He looks like Gandhi compared to W. It is imperative that a repub not be elected.

but I think it will be slightly better. SLIGHTLY.

these people are out to screw over america this much is true. But they are completly incompatant, totally ignorant and supremly stupid. Mike freaking huckabee wants to tear up the constitution and bill of rights and turn it into a theocracy, McCain is going to start more wars and increase the already huge tax cuts for the supremly wealthy, Romney is more of a corpratist whore the GW. if a repub wins it will be worse because they will make it so, at the election the state of america doesnt pop back to "default" it stays where it is and under republican rule it will get worse.

He is slimmy stuff on the bottom of the barrel.

The country changed after this happened.

Seriously, how well did anyone here know Abraham Lincoln?

But JFK...even though the Internet didn't exist, even though we had three networks and the local newspaper and that was IT for our news...

JFK was really the first President, because of his policies and his identity and his presence, who weaved himself into the fabric of our lives.

Those shots didn't just kill John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

They killed a big part of America.

The presidency of George W. Bush was like shot after shot after shot after shot ringing out from that Texas book repository onto the grassy knoll.

Over and over and over again he fired rounds into what makes out country great.

2008 is here. Be ready, and VOTE.

:patriot:

all of age 5. To my little mind, it seemed that something had all gone very, very wrong. Guess I was right.

I was born a month before JFK was inaugurated, and two weeks after JFK Jr. was born. My mom hoped I would grow up to marry John-John. Luckily I didn't, however, oddly we did get married on the same day, especially given that his wedding was secret until after it happened. I digress, I've seen a lot of ups and downs, and I always wonder how they'll affect the children at that time. For instance, my co-worker had her baby at 7'ish a.m. on 09-11-2001. Her family requested a TV blackout for when she returned to her private room with her new baby. They told her the TV wasn't working. Every generation has tragedies and tales...

and edit to welcome you! :hi:

The Republicans seized power from the bottom up, not the top down. We didn't pay attention to small local offices, school boards, until we suddenly noticed those places were all occupied by people who believed differently from us.

This is the first time I've been excited about a national candidate enough to work for their campaign.

:(