I keep seeing these posts griping about smoking bans...

...is this like an actual problem?

What is this, like 1965 or something? Who the hell smokes anymore anyway?

If you love to breathe burning tobacco smoke, do it in your house. I can't believe that in this day and age there are people

whining that they aren't able to blow their smoke all over restaurant diners, waitresses, barkeeps and the general public.

Being in public is so much NICER now that we don't have to be subjected to smoke everywhere. It was one of my favorite

things about living in California, almost nobody smoked. At my kid's elementary school NONE of the parents smoked -

I think I would have died of embarrassment if I was still a smoker.

Texas still allows smoking in restaurants, but El Paso has banned it in all public places including bars and restaurants.

I'm proud to say that El Paso is NOT like the rest of the state of Texas.



(EDITED to remove language that could be seen as unncessarily insulting to poor people)

But that would be against the rules, so I won't. But I want to.

:patriot:

But whether you agree or disagree, the fact that you're not allowed to spew your smoke all over me in public in more and more places is a very good thing.

Blowing noxious fumes all over the place isn't a god-given right.

And bars that do not serve food in Philly allow smoking. I can sit through a meal without having to smoke, it's really no big thing. I just objected to your proclamation that smokers were toothless hillbillys living in trailer parks. I find your attitude, even after your edit, to be that of a smug, self-righteous asshole. By all means, be happy about the bans but there is no reason to denigrate others and act like a dick over them.

I agree they were inappropriate.

But the fact is that smokers tend to be less educated, and poorer than non-smokers, and with every passing year that's more and more the case.

There are some people out there that still think of smoking as "cool", but my original intent was to illustrate how it's not.

But upon re-reading my post I realized that it did come out as a really nasty slam against "toothless hillbillys living in trailer parks", so I thought the better of it.

Glad to know you read the OP immediately after I posted it...

usless habit that's taxed like crazy...

:wtf:

I just don't like the self-righteous.

:hippie:

it's supposed to be about CHOICE.

Like being able to own YOUR own business and allow people to do something legal at it.

I am always mystified by people who want to FORCE ME to do things. If ya don't like smoking in bars (as but one example) open your own damn bar and make it non-smoking. Oh wait - there aren't choices anymore, you would have to open a non-smoking one cause all the cry babies whined until they removed the ability to choose.

...but I would imagine a lot of the people who work in bars are grateful to not be stuck in a cloud of smoke all night.

Not only does it harm your health - it makes your clothes stink!

In Circleville, where I used to live, I knew the owners of two bars. They only had a few employees and they all smoked (and chose to work there).

They had a choice, they liked their choice, and everyone was happy.

Until others butted in and told em how to live and operate their business.

And before you cry about health - secondhand urine kills nobody.

Indecent exposure is illegal, big difference.
"If you don't want to hear the clang, don't show the wang."

that have the pee-trough right at the bar (Ray's Happy Birthday Bar). Back in the day, people used to piss right from their seat. What a paradise that must have been.

and non-smoking bar in every city they visit. Do you know how many times I waited in line for hours to get close to the stage of a general admission show, only to have the person in front of me or next to me chain-smoke for the entire show? What choice did I have there? Either I could waste all the time and money I spent and leave the show, or go to the back of the room and not be able to see anything, or deal with not being able to breath for 3 hours and a hacking cough for the entire next day. That FORCES ME to choose between not seeing a band I really want to see or spending hours being miserable. With ticket prices being what they are, I don't think that makes me a crybaby.

The thing is, every human being needs oxygen, but only a certain percentage of human beings need nicotine. And that need for nicotine was brought on by their own choosing. I can't choose to live without oxygen. Any smoker can choose to live without smoking. Not saying it's easy, but at least it's possible. This is not a judgment on smokers' integrity or willpower, everyone has their vices, merely a statement of fact. Of course, if smokers can figure out some kind of self-contained personal environment that keeps their smoke away from everyone else, have at it.

You're obviously too fragile to survive in the outside world. I suspect you never fully matured in the womb. Stay home where someone can give you a ba-ba when you're hungry and change you when you need it. You'll be much happier.

I made a point of saying I wasn't judging the willpower or integrity of smokers, and you made a point of being snarky. Of course, when people don't actually have a rational argument, they resort to mocking and name-calling. Case in point.

It was hypocritical of me to just wail zingers at you, especially when I JUST critized someone else for doing the same thing to me. The truth is, I could debate this point with you endlessly, and nothing would change: I would still think anti-smokers are whiny, obnoxious brats, and you would still think smokers are selfish, ignorant assholes (although you would probably have the grace not to say it, or at least to phrase nicely.) I really should avoid these smoking threads: they truly bring out the worst in me, because for me, it's infuriatingly simple: if you don't want to breathe smoke, don't go to bars where people are smoking.

In any case, and for what it's worth, I apologize for my snark, and I hope you understand that it wasn't truly directed at you personally, but was more of a general venting of the annoyance this issue always brings out in me.

I should stay away from them, too, for the opposite reason.

Sometimes I think about how bizarre it is that people roll up leaves and paper and set fire to it in public places. If you set fire to nearly anything else in a crowded bar, people around you would think you were nuts and you'd probably be kicked out by the management. But set fire to a roll of leaves and paper and everyone else is just supposed to sit down and shut up or find their own bar.

you are trying, through force of law, to force the whole of society to conform to your wishes.

That is a path to certain disaster, and the antithesis of the idea of America.

but I happen to prefer living in a society. If everybody did whatever they wanted to do whenever they wanted to do it, THAT would be a path to certain disaster. What if I liked shooting guns up in the air on the street? What if I liked taking a shit in the booths of crowded restaurants? What if I liked driving 90 mph down a narrow street in front of an elementary school on snowy days? Why should the danger or discomfort I might be exposing other people to limit my freedom to do what I want? Well, because I live in a society, and we're supposed to work together for the best interests of everyone. That sounds like America to me, at least in theory.

I'm certainly glad I don't live in your world.:eyes:

"... to conform to your wishes." While I could quibble with the ridiculous implication that smoking bans are based on the whimsy of one person's "wishes" and not the fact that smoking is incredibly hazardous to everyone around the smoker, that is beside the point. You are making this an issue of "individual freedom" without considering that others have individual freedom as well, or at least they are supposed to have it. However, most (if not all) just laws of a society are enacted to protect society as a whole from citizens who overstep the boundaries between their freedoms and the freedoms of others. There are plenty of laws that go too far, but there are plenty more that serve this purpose. So yes, if we were to throw out every law that kept even one citizen from having the freedom to do what they like, that would be anarchy.

Any individual recreational activity is fine with me, but there is a line that is crossed when your activity is affecting the health and well-being of everyone around you. Imagine if I really enjoyed the smell of skunk spray. In fact, what if I enjoyed it so much that I brought a can of it to bars and restaurants and concert halls with me and sprayed in the air wherever I went? What if everyone around me had to either put up with the smell or leave to take a shower and then had to take their clothes to the dry cleaners the next day to get the skunk spray out because it was so fucking smelly. Now imagine that people found out that skunk spray caused horrible cancers in people with even second-hand contact with it. You honestly think that people should have the FREEDOM to go wherever they like and spritz clouds of skunk spray in the air? And that everyone else should just put up with it because that's the American way?

:eyes: indeed.

Since there was this HUGE demand for smoke-free bars all along, I wonder why nobody ever jumped on that and made a fortune by opening up a smoke-free place before the government mandated them? And I wonder why so many of the local bars in my town fought hard against anti-smoking laws, if they'd be so good for business?

Any asshole who feels it's perfectly alright to ban smoking in bars is no better than those crazy evangelical fucks who want to ban abortions and kill homosexuals. There. I said it.

women who've had abortions and that might have a shred of validity. Not that any non-smoker *I* know advocates *killing* smokers, even if that comparison had any merit.

Sorry, I don't mean to be stalking you around this thread. And I know we essentially agreed to disagree. But I've heard that argument before and it would be incredibly insulting if it wasn't so fucking ridiculous. I should just let it go but it really gets my goat.

I don't smoke anyway, but I like to help out whenever possible.

I have mixed feelings on the bans. Yes, I have a breathing problem (asthma) and I think it is wonderful to not have to breath in the smoke nor smell it. But, I wonder at what point, I as a non smoker can just make a choice to go somewhere else and not be in that restaurant or situation?

Until someone figures out how smoke without exhaling and and spreading cancer and emphysema to those around them, stay way down wind. The breath you save may be mine.
Oh, and clean up your butts when you are done too. The messes on the ground outside entrances to buildings stinks.

Flame away druggies, ya all gots matches and lighters.

If so, why do I inhale so many exhaust fumes during my bike ride to work?

Or factory fumes or contaminated/polluted water or so many other daily contaminates we expose our bodies to daily. Second hand smoke is the 'only' source of killer 2nd hand anything... anywhere.

And business owners have no say so in how they want to run their own business. Brownshirts are everywhere! Telling us what to do, when and where we can do it.

Unless there are some secret concentration camps for smokers.

Actually, I don't have a problem with indoor smoking being banned as long as there are two exceptions:

Bars should be allowed to make up their own rules.

All airports should have smoking lounges. Air travel is miserable enough without the extra hassle of not being able to smoke during long delays.

Of course I live in a temperate area so maybe being made to go outside to smoke is more of a problem in places where it gets genuinely cold.

How sad. I don't want to see you on any threads griping about losing civil liberties, because this is how it starts.

For the record, I don't smoke and I'm allergic to it, but as a human I have the ability to adapt to my surroundings without the government making the decision for me.

The freedom to spew smoke in public is about as important as the freedom to masturbate in public. But at least masturbating in public wouldn't harm anyone.

I don't understand why it's so hard for smokers to confine their smoking to their homes?

If the nicotine dependency is THAT strong, that you can't even leave your house for a few hours without lighting up, why not quit.

(And yes, I'm a former smoker myself - I remember going outside the theater, halfway through a long movie because I couldn't wait for a smoke. Even then I thought I was pathetic.)

i quit, but i vowed NOT to be a.... you

I say 'I'm not smoking.'

Drives 'em batty.

you might have helped me. i was telling hubby just last night. i feel like a smoker not smoking. not a non smoker. i havent been comfortable saying i quit either. i think i like yours better.

Haven't had one since June. The biggest thing, IMO, is to *not* beat yourself up about that old crutch for *any* reason. It was a great crutch and I really miss it sometimes :)

Very best to you.

than ex-smokers are "born-again" Christians.

What are you getting out of this post, then? You (apparently) know what it's like to want a cigarette. So what's the deal? Who was complaining about smoking bans? Can you show us a link? If you can, that'd be great. Although why you brought this up in the first place, I'll never know; most places have banned smoking. There may be a few bars that haven't, but you're the one who seems to be doing the complaining.

Why are these posts being made all of a sudden? It seems like they're about 10 or 15 years too late - eventually smoking will be banned in all public places and the vast majority of people are fine with that.

Eventually, smoking will be as much a quaint oddity of the past as a snuff box, and that can only be a good thing.

Yes, I'm a former smoker, and yes, I know what it's like to have a nicotine fit, and yet I never once whined about not being able to smoke somewhere, because I never assumed it was my right to blow smoke all over everyone.

Maybe it's because I'm only 38 - I can only guess that the people who think they're entitled to bug everyone with their smoke are all over 50 and nostalgic for the days when they could do it anywhere they pleased.

Smoking bans have been common since I reached adulthood, so it just seems like a moot issue to me.

That's why I have trouble understanding these futile cries of resistance about the smoking bans.

You people do realize that a society where public smoking is acceptable is pretty much over, right?

I have never seen ANY "whining" posts, as you put it, in my history of being here, and I've posted here for four years or so.

What's your purpose in starting this thread, other than to make yourself out to be a triumphant quitter? Hey, good on ya, but there are a lot more critical things going on than this. "You people" kind of makes me laugh, because you say you once smoked yourself. Your generalizations about people over 50 and the ones you apparently deleted about poor people aren't going to wash over here.

So. Where are the links?

But I did make a generalization about trailer parks, bad teeth and cigarettes going together.

I deleted the remark almost as soon as I posted it because I'm pretty poor myself, and I really have nothing against people with bad teeth or people living in trailer parks.

The only reason I even mentioned the deletion is because if I didn't, some nic addict would probably call me out on it.

All that aside, smoking is definitely not a classy or attractive habit.

for. Why on earth would I after smoking killed two people that I love? Why would I contribute a damn thing to an industry which always backs REPUBLICANS????

then dictated all be healthy... good company

the down side, you miss the essense of personal choice, personal responsibility, free will....

That nazi bastard.

They have to be listed because they are about preventing obnoxious and unhealthy behavior that others would step on.

Then we should start outlawing french fries, and other fried foods. Allow restaurants to deny overweight patrons the freedom to order what they wish?

For an obese person, that next order of fries 'could' congeal their arteries and they could keel over.

Many overweight people become diabetic. They know that but continue to gorge themselves. It's unhealthy, so let's deny any and all medical claims for diabetics.

Let's go back to Prohibition. I have a couple of people in my family who are alcoholics and will not quit drinking. Outlaw it!!!

If you say you will never fight for 'unhealthy habits, be careful what you wish for. You may need assistance, in some form, down the road.

You, apparently. And the rest of the Nanny Staters.

Let's see: speech? Not real anyway. Bear arms? Horrid! Vote? Yours doesn't matter anyway.

Bake

nt

:nuke:

:loveya:

:thumbsup:

D'you have any links? That would be really helpful. Thanx.

I suppose "whining" is in the eye of the beholder. All I see is discussion. It was interesting reading, and if you'd like to preach about it that's your choice. How would you go about being helpful in this case, instead of abrasive & antagonistic?

Smoking is on the way out. It's not coming back. The bans will only get more extensive until they are in effect in all public places in all states.

The posts complaining about this ban or that ban belong back in 1990. The public sentiment supporting more extensive smoking bans gets stronger every year.

It always plays out the same way. At first there's some debate, and some people are on the fence, but once a state makes all restaurants non-smoking and people

start to find out how nice it is to have a meal without the smoke, the support becomes overwhelming.

Of all the things to be complaining about, it seems like the topic of smoking bans has to be atop the list of the most pointless and futile.

and myself? I haven't driven a car in a year. I walked to work and back, took public transportation when necessary. Wow, yay me. So the smoking issue has been settled, great! There are a few people who disagree with it, and by that I mean FEW.

When an ex-smoker begins to yammer about how they quit and how everyone else should quit, it only makes that poster look ridiculous. You should post a thread about how you quit, do something helpful.

Anyway, I suppose I could do that, but it might be seen as advertising a particular product.

I used "Cigarrest".

It's a combination of tapes (back then - CDs nowadays) that condition your mind to get ready to quit, and some herbal pills that are supposed to help with withdrawal symptoms.

Worked like a charm for me.


http://www.cigarrest.com/

Thanks for the heads-up about the cigarest. I've tried the gum myself. If you'll excuse me, though, I have to go whine & cry about Edwards dropping out of the race. This sucks BIG time.

I'll have to whine and cry a bit myself.

Please do give cigarrest a try - it's cheap, and since it has no nicotine like the gums, it doesn't prolong the nicotine addiction.

smack. i used chantex. it is expensive and my insurance doesnt cover it. 123 a month and it is a three month deal. BUT.... i took it about 2 months to get thru holiday season and had reduced smoking to more than half. couldnt get thru a cig. three, four puffs, put it out. then when i did decide to quit, i was able to. i still have the almost constant pull to cig. after eating i get a flash of cig. go to car, i want a cig. but there is no physical feel for a cig. just a mental reminder. i still feel like a smoker just not smoking, i want to feel like a non smoker, lol. but....

just wanted to let you know, out of all the things i have tried, this one has worked the best.

drug does give me stomach ache periodically, but i felt it was worth it for a short time to quit smoking.

I mean, I know I've told you that before, but I'm going to have to again.

If you can get thru a holiday season without a cig and you're a smoker, you've done really well for yourself. I'm taking notes on this stuff too, my friend. Money's kind of tight right now, but that seems like a really good option for when I have more.

You're so kind.:hug:

my friend. thanks.

However in the minds of tens of millions of people, it isn't settled at all.

You really should develop this thing called perspective rather than thinking that your point of view and opinions are the only correct ones.

Sheesh. That says a lot about you actually. Be yourself.

Why are the ex-smokers the absolute worst?


And guess what? I quit smoking 3 weeks ago.

mine is 11 days ago, lol lol. but i agree. lol. i am NOT going to be one of THOSE. i would DIE of embarrassment

I remember you stating how much you wanted to quit. Hope you are successful this time. :hug:

seems to be working. i have never gone a day without, so 11.... a miracle. thanks.

Among them were documentary directors, doctors, college professors, etc. All thin, attractive geniuses.

At the time, I was 100 lbs overweight (I've since lost almost all of that - I could only deal with one addiction at a time).


As it was I already had enough of an inferiority complex around them - if I was still

a smoker, I would have felt like even more of a dumb slob.



I've never felt a desire to be like or compete with "cool" people, in fact I prided myself on being an outcast in high school.

But the parents at that school were all very accomplished in ways that I genuinely admired. That's all.

Classy:eyes:

It's like griping that there are no more spitoons in bars. It's 2008 already for pete's sake.

If I still smoked, I'd feel the same way. When I smoked, I lived in California, and everything was already non-smoking there.

I don't feel superior that I was able to quit smoking. I feel lucky.

If smoking bans motivate more people to quit then that's just one more good reason for them.

How many lives have been saved as a result of the existing smoking bans? How many people were spared decades of breathing from oxygen tanks or talking through a computer voice box?

settle in and abortion will be out and no more spitoons in the bar. it is 2008 for petes sake. how many fetus's will it save, how many souls. if a law against abortion motivate people to not have sex (bah hahahahah) and more people quit (lol lol) then that is just one more good reason.

So, let me get this straight - a woman's right to choose to terminate an unwanted pregnancy is equivalent to a person's right to blow obnoxious and cancer-causing fumes all around in a public, enclosed space, and defending such rights are equally important?

You are kidding, right?

and passing law and societal approval of eliminating smoking smacks strongly of those that argue it is for the good.... to eliminate abortion and many other things that a person choses to or not to do. i can see people opposed to abortion using two of your posts here on this thread talking about smoking. you sound exactly the same

You can go home and smoke like a chimney (or scarf down nachos or whatever) for all I care. Just don't come into a restaurant where I'm trying to eat and blow that mess all over me.

You're the first person I've EVER seen equate smoking rights with abortion rights. WOW.

have been saying in your posts. smoking is over folks, quit, it is so non 2008. and all the other bullshit in your posts of a superiority that i cannot stomach.

i am not even talking about the damn bans, i dont care. i dont drink. i dont smoke. and i dont socialize. i dont give a fuck.

but yes...... you are harping on the choices of others.

preaching

that is it

you are preaching.

i get enough of that shit living in the bible belt of texas

At least where it concerns my characterization of smoking as a very outdated habit. That's just my personal feelings on the matter.

But smoking bans are increasingly the law of the land, and that's been happening for decades now.

My point was just that the smokers need to come to terms with the fact that it's NEVER going to go back to the way it was, and in fact it's

going to continue to be restricted further.

You do understand that the smoking laws will never revert back to the way they were, right?

The posts I'm referring to were by people that seem to wish we could just go back in time to the days when you could smoke anywhere, and

I can guarantee you, the vast majority don't want to go back to that.

He sounds just like you, and equally as retarded.

it is NOT how i really sound. geeeez..... make me have to clarify

for sounding so self-righteous. I wasn't pickign a fight with you, just the OP.

Edited to add: You replacing the original posters words of "smoking" with "abortion" was a spot on analysis, and the OP asked if you were kidding. I was saying that, "no, you're not kidding."

cannot stomach them. all the self righteousness..... praise the lord

seabeyond's argument may not hold water, but at least it's an argument.

He just replaced "smoking" with "abortion." He could have said, "alcohol", or "trans fat" or any other vice or topic you may or may not agree with.

The question still remains, why are YOU left to choose what is appropriate or not in our country?

Elected representatives did, because the voters wanted them.

Smoking is banned in public places because the majority don't want a minority walking around blowing stinky poisonous smoke everywhere.

Abortion is legal because the constitution guarantees us a right to privacy, and the Supreme Court decided that abortion falls under that right.

Abortion concerns a woman and her fetus. Smoking affects everyone where the smoke goes to.

It's different from the other things you mentioned because people don't walk into restaurants throwing alcohol or trans fats all over all of the other patrons.

But if you're incapable of even understanding why blowing smoke all over people is an imposition, what's the point in even talking to you?

Silly me to question their authority. My bad.

Have you ever thought that people actually enjoy smoking? It is, after all, legal in all fifty states. I know, I know, the anti-smoking folks would love to ban it, but really, would that really work, given our history of prohibitions.

Why can't you let establishments choose(you know choice, that supposedly wonderful liberal trait) whether or not they want smoking in their place of business? Then people can choose whether or not they want to patronize said establishment or not? People could choose whether they wanted to work there or not.

But no, when it comes to smoking, the authoritarian seems to come to the fore, even among the best liberals. Sad, really sad when you abandon sound liberal principles to pursue your own causes like a zealot.

I like the smoking bans. I fully support them.

My uncle does, one of my friends does, and that's about it. High school kids do it a lot less now too. In my province, we have an absolute ban on smoking inside any building except your own home.

I'm old enough to remember when people smoked EVERYWHERE. And although I understand and even appreciate the arguments the smokers have.....its way too damn nice to give up theses laws and bylaws. It's awesome not to have to smell that disgusting shit when your eating your meal or trying to pick up in the bar ;).

The law was enacted some time back. And there was a lot of arguments about it, particularly from bar owners, back then. But smokers have basically accepted it now, and a lot of people have started to quit. Moreover (and I'll see if I can find the hard stats), the clubs and bar business pick back up after an initial drop off. Apparently, staying at home puffing away isn't as fun as going out and socializing.

I have never smoked a ban and don't know anyone that does...

:rofl:

But some on DU seem to think that smoking bans aren't enough. They claim that I have a right to smoke as long as they don't have to breathe it. Fine. But guess what kiddies, smoking bans in cars and bans outdoors are going into effect in many cities. I'm always happy to keep my smoke away from people, but when I am told I can't smoke in my car or while walking down the street then it's my rights being trampled not yours. Get off your high horse.

Edit: Let me add that a private business owner should have a right to choose whether he will allow smoking in his/her establishment. Then the health freaks can choose to go elsewhere. See everyone gets to choose and no one is forced to do anything.

I disagree about bars and restaurants, but how can you argue that anyone is harmed by someone smoking in their car?

(But I would add, I think smoking in a car or anywhere confined with a child is just plain wrong)

Sure, it's legal. Lots of stupid stuff is legal. But smoking inflicts a massive financial toll on Americans, too. And rarely on the smoker, 'cuz they're dead. It's everyone else who pays. But once again, smokers are only concerned with what THEY want to do.

.

sure, being fat is legal. lots of stuff is legal. but being fat inflicts a massive financial toll on americans too.

and the rarely on smokers cause they are dead is just such flat out bullshit. like everyone or even major percentage of people that smoke have smoke related deaths ???? what???? eventually? news for you. all the non smokers are going to die TOO.

This is a smoking thread. You want to see a REAL flame war, start a FAT thread. Both take enormous tolls on our economy. Your point was what? Since being fat is bad too, smoking is okay?

.

The most reputable study was performed, as I recall, by the Rand Institute for the State of California over 15 tears ago and it found that the "cost to society" of smokers was, in fact, a profit not a loss. The taxes paid, the jobs generated, and the fact that smokers most often die AFTER most of their working years and BEFORE their Social Security years ... combined with the fact that the most frequent smoking-related illnesses (e.g. lung cancer) have short treatment period (before onset of death) ... all combined, under the most conservative assumptions, to result in a net OVERPAYMENT to "society." And that study was BEFORE a couple of rounds of large tax increases on tobacco.

Be happy. Smokers pay us MORE than their fair share of costs.

But here's a NEWSFLASH! The costs of alcohol consumption are NOT covered by drinkers!!

Here ...
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE4D6153FF934A25750C0A96F948260

So, try that bullshit economic argument on your local bartender.

It was just CHOICE, right? I mean, fast food is legal, paper bags and wrappers are legal, so who does it hurt if I hurl my empty Mickey D's bag on the side of the road?

Great post.

.

classic line from ... Steve Martin......his response to the question..."do you mind if I smoke".

I mean, what if people said "What about my right to set fire to cow feces in a bar? I mean, damnit, if you don't like the smell of burning cow shit, find another bar. Why should I have to care about how the burning shit will affect everyone else around me, just because they paid the same cover charge to get into the bar?"

Because someone, somewhere along the line, decided that smoking was cool, it suddenly is supposed to be any more acceptable or any less bizarre than setting anything else on fire in a crowded public place.

Many of us love smoking. Tobacco smells great to me drying in a barn and it tastes great to me, also. It is relaxing and nicotine is certainly an addictive drug. But, smoking is my addiction and my favorite hobby. Though I don't smoke pipes or cigars, I appreciate that many people do.

Don't tell those of us who love smoking that we cannot enjoy it in public. If you air purists continue in this vein, then we smokers are going to insist than automobiles be banned on public streets and highways, alcohol be banned from public places, and chronic judgmentalists be banned from public places. So there.

It isn't about YOU. FUCK THAT. We all have bad habits. But if I bite my nails or jerk off too much, IT HAS NO IMPACT ON YOUR EXISTENCE. When you smoke around me, my hair and my clothes reek of your tobacco smoke. Like a guy with body odor he can't smell, you are immersed in your filthy smoke all the time, and therefore have no clue about how bad it is. My in-laws smoke, and last time we spent a few days with them we even had to send our soft-sided luggage to the cleaners. Never mind the fact that even the lingering smoke -- even when cigarette smoke isn't being blown in her face -- cause asthma attacks in my wife.

The foul smell permeates EVERYTHING. I don't even look at it as a matter of rights or laws...it's just common courtesy! Do you like people carrying on loud cell-phone conversations next to you while you're eating? Do you approve of throwing trash from cars? What the hell, right? Doesn't hurt anybody. It just lowers their quality of life, but WTF, as long as you get to do what you want.

:banghead:

.

People annoy me all the time with discourtesies of one kind or another. But, because I smoke I am able to cope with all their deficiencies and general foulness. The benefits of smoking are endless. Before I began smoking, I grew up with terrible migraines. After starting smoking, these migraines abated and never returned. Additionally, I had no patience with listening to other people, UNTIL I began smoking. I would have my say, and then, when they began to speak, I would simply walk away. If they called me on the phone, they might say "How's it going, Ja---(click)". I would hang up the phone because I had no patience to pretend that I cared about what they had to say. I knew it was unimportant anyway. Now, as a smoker, I am perfectly willing to allow others to speak their mind. So, it has made me a much kinder and gentler person. I must admit that non-smokers are distrustful, but I still treat them respectfully. Smoking takes the hard edge off people and makes them graceful, warm people. The smoke they exhale into your hair makes it much healthier and manageable. It's like rainwater. This is why Orientals have such soft, luxuriant hair. The scent in your luggage and clothes should be welcomed relief in that it kills the other odors, much the same way a Bounty tissue works in a dryer. All these courtesies that we smokers share with non-smokers go unappreciated.

I believe we smokers should unite in a national effort to ban alcohol from public places in every state. It's not that we have anything personal against alcohol, but we have a great need to exhibit the hypocrisy of the anti-smoking crowd, which is filled with jealous ex-smokers and non-smokers. They do so want to be a part of us and our habit. I have often pointed out that if special smokers-only bars and restaurants were established, the non-smokers would trample themselves to get inside....and then complain about our smoke. What many of us have decided to do is take the offensive. We are tired of being on the defensive about such a healthy habit for ourselves and our neighbors alike. Now, if I didn't smoke, I wouldn't even bother talking to you. But, because I smoke, I am more than happy to hear you and out and converse pleasantly with you, in spite of your objectionable persona.

I just caught your other post. Nice job.

.

they didn't even want to do without my company for 10 minutes so i could have a smoke not only away from them per second hand smoke, but so they would not have to LOOK upon me while i held a cig. seems to be as offensive and actually smelling the smoke. these people would lecture me on smoke and how horrible, and they couldn't be around..... but once they got to know me, became friends and would come to my house, they would not let me walk outside by myself. i would say, .... hey smoking here. and lo and behold is they didn't say.....................

doesn't matter

doesn't matter my fuckin ass. why did i have to hear the two hour lecture at beginning of relationship about the horrors of the effects of smoking in their presence.

see..... now if i were still smokin i wouldn't be in this rant and instead would just say


cute post.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

United States — Population: 301,139,947 (July 2007 est.)
According to https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html

How about a tug of war to determine which side is right? Your 44 million smokers vs. 257 million non-smokers. Fair enough?

Why can't the non-smoking majority allow the rest of us to have our place to smoke?

Why must you prevent a bar owner and his smoking clientele from being able to smoke in peace? You don't have to go there.

And yes, I realize 44 million adult smokers is not a majority. But it can be a pissed off, voting minority. Remember that when you're trying to solicit our votes.

Why can't the smoking minority allow the rest of us to have our place to breathe?

Why must you prevent relatively healthy people from being able to breathe in peace? Not have their clothes and hair reek of carcinogenic stench? Not have asthmatics, those suffering from severe allergic reactions, or chemically sensitive individuals fight to breathe without suffering physical consequences?

I'm sorry that your addiction makes you feel that it's OK to impose this on the majority of the population.

Think this is unfair? Create a way for smokers to inhale their coffin nails without subjecting the rest of the world to the consequences of your addiction. Then you'll be a multi-millionaire and be able to laugh at the rest of us monetarily poor non-smokers.

Until you smoke yourself into an early grave that is. At least you won't take anyone else with you. Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

give me the smoker over any poster that really walks thru life the way your post reflects who you are any time. the smoker i can step away from his smoke but enjoy them. you on the other hand. if this is a reflection of who you are, a bit hard to step away from who you are.

Perhaps you should stick that in your pipe and contemplate it for a bit.

:hi:

and re read the subthread here. that maybe that is exactly what happened.

no pipe for me,..... at last, i no longer inhale ;(

:hi:

:hi:

Your typical anti-smoking argument is bullshit. Smokers didn't complain when they outlawed smoking in government buildings. They didn't complain when corporations banned it on their properties. They didn't complain when it was banned in most public places damn near everywhere. They just went outside and smoked. They only started complaining when smoking was banned in bars, and they were right to do so, because the SHEER HYPOCRISY of assholes who go to bars and drink what is essentially a poison, and then whine incessantly and petulantly about how smokers are forcing them to breathe polluted air, is beyond obnoxious. Don't want to breathe smoke, fucktards? There's the door. Get the fuck out. Go find someplace else to drink. No one's holding a smoking gun to your whiny little heads.

Christ. It's been over a year since I quit, and these assholes STILL drive me nuts.

Smoke twice, even three times as much as you used to, for just as long as you are able. Trust me, you'll ultimately make a lot of people happy.....

You really tackled those issues and presented an air-tight counter-argument! I'm impressed that you were able to completely refute every point I made! I can only hope you're some sort of anti-smoking super-prodigy and not a typical example of your basic whiny anti-smoker, or you guys will soon be ruling the Earth with your superior brain-power!

I gave up on smoking threads. Cheers to you for giving them hell.

(Lights a smoke, blows some in your direction.) Cheers.

- as

1) My post that you are replying to is a pastiche of the one that I was replying to. If you don't like the tone, then look in the mirror.

2) I was working in California when smoking was banned in the workplace. If you think that people didn't whine and complain and scream and pout when that happened, then you are either ignorant or deluded.

3) The rest of your rant is nothing new, and doesn't address work environment issues for staff or musicians.

Have a nice life.

...is that the assholes are the ones who click the "alert" button when someone calls them a name.

I'm not one of them, and I can take a little name-calling from some smoker who's mad because he's having nic-fits.

PS, RE your numbers - that's 2004. In 2007, last I read, the number had dropped from 20% to 19%.

Your numbers are falling, and will continue to do so as millions of you quit or die off prematurely, and as the cigarette

habit becomes less and less fashionable, and more and more associated with poverty, ignorance, unhappiness,

illness and death, fewer and fewer young people will even pick up the habit to begin with.

Thus far, the smokers' voting bloc has been remarkably ineffective in turning the nationwide tide toward banning smoking in public places.

But good luck to you in organizing your ever-dwindling smoker friends to restore your smoking freedoms.

Just makes me want to blow smoke in your face.

You know, I can understand people wanting to be able to go to smoke-free establishments. What I don't understand and cannot accept is that certain non-smokers want to prevent smokers from being able to go to establishments that allow smoking.

That kind of nanny-state bullshit will never win my vote. And to the extent it represents the will of the Democratic Party, it weakens my ties to the party.

You suppose I have a reason for being a jerk because I'm suffering "nic fits." What's your excuse?

...so maybe I really am self-righteous.

But I still don't think people should be allowed to blow smoke all over the place in a restaurant.

How about if I went into a restaurant you were eating at, wantonly spraying a can of pine-scented Raid everywhere?

I bet you'd object.


And I'm pretty sure most Dems, Repubs, Independents and Greens also support smoking bans in public places.

The libertarians and anarchists are probably still cool with public smoking, though...

Why are you obsessed with controlling others' property?

smoking tread.

Or maybe make it an new forum where you can say something to incite a flame war, a flame war forum.

"If you love to breathe burning tobacco smoke, do it in your house. I can't believe that in this day and age there are people

whining that they aren't able to blow their smoke all over restaurant diners, waitresses, barkeeps and the general public."

---

Its about allowing people who start and run businesses to allow a personally legal activity in their establishment..

I think it depends on the state, but I think some states have that as an out for the business.

"Its about allowing people who start and run businesses to allow a personally legal activity in their establishment."

Masturbation is legal - but people are restricted in where they can do it.

Why should smoking - which is much more harmful to everyone involved - be any different?

You sound so self-righteous in this post, I would delete it if I were you. But i'm sure you won't, because you're proud to be an ass. Apparently.

Here's a tip for ya. The reason smokers don't "die of embarrassment" is because of this little medical fact known as ADDICTION. Who the fuck do you think you are?


(There, I said it for all those on this thread that wanted to.)

bars serving another drug, alcohol! Maybe it's not considered as dangerous. :sarcasm:

One of these days the people will get sensible and have smoking restaurant/bar establishments and non-smoking ones. Then will everyone be happy?

You need to travel around the state some more. There are many places where smoking is banned in Texas, and you're right, El Paso is different as is Houston, and Dallas, and San Antonio, et. al.
On second thought, maybe you should stay in El Paso if it is your paradise.

:shrug:

drunk drivers BOTH do plenty of damage and/or demise of innocents. I'll run my risk anyday with the little second hand smoke I experience against the encounter of a drunken driver.

hey .... LIFE,

lets party

I'm all for the bans. I'd to see ciggerettes in general be banned, but that probably wont ever happen.

Smokers are addicts. Some are considerate where they practice their addiction, but you will be (are) flamed by smokers who just don't get it.

They will argue about car pollution and fast foods and alcohol and everything else that people volunteer to ingest.

Smoking in public is dispensing poison into non-smokers systems. That is truth.

Smoking will be banned in public during our lifetimes. That is a certainty. We are well on our way.

When I can walk down the street and not be accosted by cigarette delivered poison I will celebrate.

That day is coming soon.

We have asthma and allergies, and when I'm around cigarette smoke, I can't breathe. We pretty much stick to smoke-free restaurants, though not all around here are.

Leaving a football game last fall, we had to walk to the commuter bus to the parking lot. As soon as we left the stadium, a gentleman in front of me lit up. The wind was blowing his smoke right back into my face. I tried walking faster to pass him, but then his friends sped up, seeing the bus. By the time we got there, between the cold air and his smoke, I was having a full-blown asthma attack, the first I'd had in months. Not being able to get enough air sure was scary. I managed to calm it down on the bus with the clean air in there, but Hubby was seriously considering getting me to the ER. Apparently, my lips went blue for a bit, something he'd never seen me do.

I can understand why he lit up (smoking being banned in the stadium itself and it being a long game), but I shouldn't have to go to the ER just so he can exercise his right to fill the air with his smoke.

It's not his fault you have asthma. If there'd been a smoking section in the stadium, maybe he would have had one there instead of right after he got outside. Since his rights were violated for a good three or four hours, and yours for only a few minutes, I find it hard to work up much sympathy for you.

It doesn't take much to get me coughing, but lots of smoke right in my face stops me breathing cold.

How were his rights violated? He chose to sit in a non-smoking venue for hours, though outside of the stadium, he could smoke and presumably could take smoking breaks. He could've sat at home or in a bar and watched the game for cheaper and smoked all he wanted.

It's like yelling fire in a crowded theater. It may be your right to freedom of speech, but it hurts everyone else. You still have the right to yell, you still have the right to speak up, but your right to yell stops at everyone else's right to watch the movie in peace and not get trampled in a melee to get out from a false alarm. You have the right to smoke. You have the right to smoke in areas designated for smoking and on your own property (as well you should). When it comes to smoking in public, though, other people have the right to breathe, so your right to smoke ends at the beginning of their right to breathe.

Of course he has a right to smoke. It's a legal activity which is becoming more and more restricted. In times past, you could smoke right in the stadium (and unless it's a dome, you should still be able to, AFAIC). Eventually, they came up with smoking sections, but that wasn't enough for the anti-smoke whiners. Now, it's outlawed in most public places altogether. The man was prevented from enjoying a cigarette for hours because he wanted to indulge something else he wanted to do. You were inconvenienced (by your own choice) for a few minutes because he was finally able to exercise his right to smoke. I'm assuming it's still LEGAL for him to smoke in the parking lot, right? So, he was incovenienced for hours, while you were inconvenienced (by your own choice) for a few minutes. Sorry, no sympathy.

And please. Unless he was smoking a ten foot long cigarette, you had plenty of opportunity to get out of the path of his smoke. As a former smoker, I'm very well aware of how far smoke can spread out of doors. You make it sound like everyone behind him for 100 yards in either direction and for 300 yards back was forced to crawl gasping through this opaque cloud of death. All you had to do was wait 10 to 20 seconds for him to walk on ahead of you, and you would have been fine. "Why should you have to do that?" For the same reason I have to listen to my jack-ass co-worker talk on the phone all day, or routinely have people cut me off on the road, or have to listen to my upstairs neighbors clomp around over my head all night. It's called living in a society, and tolerating other people.

Really? Um, okay. :eyes: Please forgive me if I can't see how they're equal.

The path was a tight one, and there was nowhere else to go. I tried stopping, but the wind kept whipping it back in my face, so we tried to walk faster when his companions sped up when they saw the bus. By then, I couldn't go any faster due to that no oxygen thing.

And hey, I didn't say anything to him, I didn't attack him, I didn't even ask him to stop smoking. He sure didn't put it out when he saw me on the ground, either. Kept on puffing as my lips turned blue. Nice.

For the good of the general public, he wasn't allowed to indulge his addiction in public for a while. He absolutely had a choice: if he couldn't have done without, then he could have stayed in his own home and smoked to his heart's desire. No one forced him to be there.

else's "rights" stop quite literally at your nose.

Someone's addiction is their problem. I do support making plenty of help available to them to stop.

But I don't think there is any inherent right to smoke, and there most certainly isn't any right to expose other people to your fumes because you want to smoke. You can't demand your individual liberty at the cost of someone else's.

It's not the smell, it's the smoke. I breathe it in, and I can't breathe. Whether it's an allergic reaction (very possible, given my history) or asthma or my brain telling me it's dangerous, who cares? I can't breathe around it.

Do you think sane people actually believe you? Please stay in your house. People like you offend me and I have a right not be be offended.

:eyes:

Yeah, I'll just go live in my bubble now so that smokers get to ruin their own lungs and the lungs of everyone around them with impunity. I'll just remember how my best friend looked in the hospital gasping for breath after the lung cancer gave her a stroke, too. Just so you and cigarette addicts don't get offended. Wouldn't want to offend anyone. :eyes:

Redstone

Redstone

:thumbsup:

:applause:

Thats the simple explanation. I worked in a restaurant for years, they tried non-smoking rooms, they tried air purifiers, nothing worked. I used to have to spray down the fireplace every week to scrub the yellow tar off...it was disgusting. They finally banned smoking, and it was a godsend. I could actually breathe well again.

And guess what? Business didn't suffer at all. We had a door out the side of the bar where people would smoke, and no one ever complained.

Smokers just get worked up on this issue because, its the sad cry of their habit being phased out of the mainstream. Remember those good old days when we could smoke on airplanes and in the movie theater? I sure don't....that was complete torture for the rest of us. In a couple of years smoking bans in bars and restaurants will be common place, and hopefully their whining will die out.

Smokers like to frame the debate on 'rights' and the government telling you what to do. Oh, look at my tiny violin playing a sad sad song for them. The government isn't stopping anyone from smoking, they don't want to, they make too much taxes off of it. Whats happening is, the right to clean air has finally recognizer smoking as a problem. No one has a right to pollute the public air with impunity..the government regulates that whether its the smokestack creating our electricity or the cars on our roads. And thats the fact they won't admit through the cloud of their addictions. Second hand smoke kills people. We have OSHA for a reason, to protect workers in the workplace. No matter what anyone says, no one has the right to pollute the air in a small enclosed place where people work and the public gather. People shouldn't have to go work somewhere else, if the air quality of their workplace is dangerous. The rest of the population shouldn't have to worry about the impact on their health when they go to restaurants, bars and concerts. Because smoking is a choice. Not smoking should be too.

I was always amazed at the high number of progressives here who are against smoking bans in public indoor spaces. Its such a great asset to improving public health. Does someone's right to smoke trump someone else's right not to smoke? Everyone should have the right to make choices about their own physical health and well-being and these choices up until now, were limited for non-smokers.

with lung cancer, right?

Those horrible patrons...how dare they force you to work there & breathe thier smoke!!!

and they have that right. They make a good point about bans inside restaurants/bars. Private establishments usually are allowed to determine what goes on in those establishments within community norms.

However, there is little doubt that second hand smoke is pretty nasty stuff for the health of workers and patrons. SO, there are good points about the public safety reasons for bans.

I understand that smokers feel like they belong to one of the last groups where the members are openly harassed and discriminated against. That's a reality and frankly it sucks.

But I don't mind the bans. I don't hate smokers, but I don't mind the bans. I think in the long run it helps everyone.

Of course, that's my opinion and you know what they say about opinions....

Nice flamebait, but is being a troll really that much fun?

...

Anyway, I was actually pretty shocked at the response this thread got.

I completely underestimated how many smokers still remain, and how vocally they defend their habit and their right to impose it on others.

I will not be putting up any smoking threads in the future, if it's any consolation to you.