US generals ‘will quit’ if Bush orders Iran attack

Personally, I find this hard to believe. But, maybe there really are some level-headed types among the brass who actually value the good of the country above the good of their careers.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1434540.ece

SOME of America’s most senior military commanders are prepared to resign if the White House orders a military strike against Iran, according to highly placed defence and intelligence sources.

Tension in the Gulf region has raised fears that an attack on Iran is becoming increasingly likely before President George Bush leaves office. The Sunday Times has learnt that up to five generals and admirals are willing to resign rather than approve what they consider would be a reckless attack.

“There are four or five generals and admirals we know of who would resign if Bush ordered an attack on Iran,” a source with close ties to British intelligence said. “There is simply no stomach for it in the Pentagon, and a lot of people question whether such an attack would be effective or even possible.”

The US air force is regarded as being more willing to attack Iran. General Michael Moseley, the head of the air force, cited Iran as the main likely target for American aircraft at a military conference earlier this month.

A senior defence source said the air force “could do a lot of damage to the country if there were no other considerations”. But army chiefs fear an attack on Iran would backfire on American troops in Iraq and lead to more terrorist attacks, a rise in oil prices and the threat of a regional war.

many more will follow. This is the kind of thing that many officers feel but won't act on UNTIL others do, then they join them.

Constitution of the United States of America. If ANYONE, including their 'commander in chief' has tried to subvert that oath, if they have been 'pressured' to subvert that oath....than they should provide the EVIDENCE necessary to help convict those "enemies from within". THAT is their SWORN duty.

Resigning is the cowards way (especially in light of the 'early adapters' who have already 'way-long-ago' resigned to "send a message". Now, it's up to "YOU GUYS" to 'prove what you're made of'.

Frankly, I'm not expecting much (but I would love to be wrong).

Peace,
M_Y_H

I like the protest but I hate to think that they'd abandon their troops like that. What would their options be though? A miltary coup?

It would be a 'stand-down'.....until clearer direction (funding?/approval?) comes from Congress.

Unique, yes....Illegal, no....Sane, definitely, YES!

hide a dozen generals and admirals and assorted colonels, majors, commodores and others resigning over the rotten idea. Who do you think the American people will back? The military or that fuckers in the white house?

would most likely be court martialed bor disobeying a direct order. Yes, I think they would probably win, but I sure can't blame them for not wanting to go through that nightmare!

more than being automatons with a human body to be destroyed (or not).

It kind of makes me throw up a little bit in my mouth to think of people who think of (their?) soldiers as automatons like that.....

by automaton? My son was is the Navy for 16 years, and I sure wouldn't want to offend any military people, but I also know what a nightmare it is to go through a court martial. If there's a way for those officers to refuse to obey their CIF without going through that, I sure would recommend it.

was to resign, if they couldn't stop it, then they resign. But until then continue to fight for and as they swore they would, enemies from within. I hope it does not come to this.

and the "resignations" don't stick

Say a traitor to national security....and if that traitor was at the upper end of government. Are, 'we, the people, ready to accept that? Embrace that? Ready to remedy the destruction that it has caused?

It WOULD be enough to defy 'orders'. It WOULD be enough to 'stand down'.

It would do a LOT to re-establish the USA as a 'beacon of light' while still obeying the 'honor of the law'....which is based on 'common sense'.

Peace,
M_Y_H

What about the next time a President makes the decision to avoid using military force, but the military leadership disagrees?

Once you open the door to military coups, they're awfully difficult to contain.

There's something about "Good Faith".

I would expect that most of the soldiers have enough trust in their commanders that they (their commanders) are acting in "good faith" ~ those commanders understand/VALUE the resource that those troops of varying levels have to offer.

If those generals in the Pentagon (OR WHEREVER) don't have the BALLS (GREAT BIG ORANGE ONES) to say you're not gonna use those troops in this manner (LIKE A MOTHER would protect her own children!).......

Oh, the generals in the Pentagon failed a long, long time ago. No one trusts anyone anymore....no one has (nor has earned any credibility). Big men/small dicks....absolutely no 'strength of character'....which is only EARNED through time and 'hardship'.

Military coups are no small matter, and once that genie is out of the bottle, it does not go back in easily.

it's more 'collective cooler heads prevailed'....Remember to whom the are military serve, not the CIC, but the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.....and they are SWORN to DEFEND against enemies of the CONSTITUTION, both foreign an DOMESTIC. If a 'DOMESTIC' enemy is proven (and they dis-obey that person's orders)....then they're a 'hero', aren't they?

There's no 'genie out of the bottle'.....America is battling with some high level traitors......good people don't have to follow these treasonous bastards.....and 'rue to those that do'....it's gonna 'come back to bitecha-in-the-ass'

Why is it acceptable to perform a military coup in this situation, but not the next time the Joint Chiefs don't agree with the budget allotment? What if a segment of the the military leadership had sent tanks into Washington DC because they disagreed with Clinton's use of force in Bosnia?

good people don't have to follow these treasonous bastards

You're very correct. That's probably why there are rumors that a significant number may resign if Bush attacks Iran.

(and I don't want to be too snarky here, but all those 'quotation marks' are unnecessary and make your text difficult to read)

"Remember to whom the are military serve, not the CIC"

That's wrong, the CiC is in every chain of command. A Naval chain of command might look like this
From top to bottom:
President, Vice President, SecDef, SecNav, CNO (with CNOCM directly under him), then after that it starts to change wildly depending on where you are and what command you're under. If you were a recruit at RTC you would be under NETC and their FORCM, and then under that is another training org (and their FORCM), and then finally the CO of the RTC and his CMDCM and all the people down to the recruit. I used to be able to recite the entire chain from memory, but since I'm not in boot camp anymore and that knowledge is useless I have subsequently forgotten it.

Point being, the pResident is 'in charge' of the military and is basically the most superior officer around.

Perhaps you should look up the definition of a coup. It certainly doesn't include the act of resignation.

We weren't talking about the officers potentially resigning--we were talking about military leadership identifying the President as a "domestic enemy" and refusing to obey orders.

Thanks for you input, though. You've added a lot to the discussion.

to throw away their career isn't a small thing. Obviously it's not something they would want to do, so if they were to resign, I'm quite sure they would have looked at all of their options.

With this administration, I'm not sure they'd get anywhere "convicting those enemies from within". I wish it could be done, but they seem to be able to do whatever they want with impunity.

We've got a ton of evidence of the administration acting above-the-law, or outright illegally, yet no one has been able to touch them yet - not even enough to stop them, apparently, from seriously considering pre-emptively invading another country when our military is already broken.

than a year. No one has better ties to the Pentagon than him. Believe it.

during his trip. War with Iran is going to happen. The question is when.

K&R.

Many fear that the fundies have pretty well infiltrated the Air Force. The USAF Academy is located right alongside Ted Haggart's church, which is painted in the official USAF colors. Many complaints of religious intolerance at the Academy. You have to admit, the Neocons leave nothing to chance. Love her or hate her, Hillary was right on the money when she complained of a vast, right-wing conspiracy. That should go down as the quote of the century.

I'd be surprised if Bush has support from the Army or Navy. Interesting that Bush appointed an airforce official to head up the entire theater over there, especially since it has been mostly a ground war as of late.

I would ratter see a boot in charge

For the most part Navy doesn't really have boots on the ground (aside from corpsmen and seabees and EOD), and so as it doesn't affect the majority, and the majority were raised drinking the kool-aid, the majority of Navy personnel I've met are still in favor and I've even met several that want to go and get shot at. The last corpsmen I talked to seems to have a much more balanced perspective on the conflict and would rather not go back to Iraq and he doesn't understand and he tries to convince people who are trying to volunteer and augment to go, to not go.

Some speculate that it takes a true believer to order the kind of anonymous, long distance death and destruction that only an AF dropped nuke weapon would wreak. Maybe nuke boat Navy guys are similar.

Well we have them in storage somewhere, but for the most part Boomer guys don't want to launch. The one boomer fag I know who was on a boat that actually test fired some Tridents said he was scared shitless and the boat almost broke in half. But Navy like the AF is pretty isolated from the death and destruction, and I've heard at least one person wanting to glass Iran. Fortuantly this person isn't taken seriously and is treated like crap by the rest of the crew because he's a moron.

given the number who have resigned already and subsequently spoken out against Bushcheneyco and their wars.

the idiot boy king would proceed with his destruction and wanton abandon for all life on the planet; along with his blood thirsty buddies the Israelis, game on..

these folks need to seriously consider a 7 Days in May scenerio instead of waiting for all hell to break loose; once that happens every screwball in congress will be saluting and rallying around the flag

I fully expect to wake up any morning to see the bombs dropping

They don't have a reason to, as this would be unspeakably bad for US interests for decades.

And welcome to DU, daviscn! :hi:

are closer than anytime in recent history. In our community full of retired military folks, the antagonism toward Bush, his policies, and his misuse of the military is overt.

That can be seen in the fact that for the first time in DECADES, a minority (39%) of military personnel consider themselves Republicans.

I don't find it hard to believe that they would want to quit. The 2 Iraqi commanders did it over the surge.

Oh dang, there I go again, bashing the troops. :sarcasm:

If the entire military told * to kiss their collective asses. It is time for the military to disregard the chimps orders, and come home safe.

of "when do we choose between allegiance to the Constitution and obeying the CinC?"

I am sure the thoughts have been on all the top brass' minds for months, possibly a few years. But if someone is able to id "four or five generals and admirals" and say confidently they would resign, then either the writer is a boldfaced liar or there is a whole lot more unrest than 4 or 5.

Make no mistake about it, the flap at WR, despite being an army-run facility, would be viewed by the "real" army - the ones fighting and commanding the war - as a travesty to be blamed on the civilian authority - for budget constraints, lack of oversight, choosing the deskjockeys in charge of WR, you name it. The insult to the troops is an insult to those responsible for them. It could not have come at a worse (or better, depending on your point of view) time for the leaders of the American insurgency, if they want loyalty from their militia. The VA benefit cuts won't have gone unnoticed either.

Of course, 4-5 resignations won't stop it. We need Peter Pace to say, Sir, I respectfully decline to carry out that order, as I consider it to be illegal" Then a good old Saturday Night Massacre. Bush can relieve him, appoint a temporary replacement, have him refuse...
Solidarity! We may be just days - or even hours - away from our Constitutional crisis.

Doug Feith types are over Generals?

Or is there a contingent of Douge Feith Rumsfeld Cheney Generals?

Now, if they could instead declare Bush an enemy of the state and handcuff him to prevent him from doing so....alrighty then.

Better that they stay and fight the fascism.

Do you honestly want a military dictatorship to replace the republic?

No disrespect intended, but that statement demonstrates a staggering lack of imagination.

My son-n-law is a captain in the air force and voted for Gore then Kerry and even met Bill Clinton on his book tour a few years ago. He says its its pretty open and about 50/50 these days what people think but definitely not all republican.

There seems to be a constant "push-pull" in the US's policy w/Iran - the neocons pushing for war, and the sane officials pulling back.

US generals 'will quit' if Bush orders Iran attack
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21284150-601,00.html

Let's hope the majority of the military brass step up to the plate to defy this crazy administration. BushCo has no power without the military behind it. I hope they pull it off. I'm not suggesting a coup, but refusing unreasonable and immoral orders would save the world. IMHO.

They don't do the fighting. Their best hope for another chest full of ribbons is action.

It's gotta be quite boring to sit around playing war games one weekend a month; this applies to enlisted people, too.
Except for a nutjob here and there, soldiers don't quit.
And, thank goodness ours don't.
jmo

...O...

These generals know it will be World War III and probably want no part of the inevitable Nuremberg-like war crime trials that would happen after it.

Dear Madame Speaker... it's time to put impeachment back on the table.

In fact I'm glad to see the article. It fits. The Army is sick of Bush, he's ruining our readiness and ability to recruit.

The fact that this is released is also good news. They're letting him know what's up if he screws up.

It's about time.

Bush will still do what he wants to do.

two in GD, one in LBN

All hot as hell and with plenty of rec's

Like the British pullout, the Bush Admin and Complicit media will SPIN this baby like a top..

Cheney Sez, "Obviously We are WINNING the War against the Insurgents, and Terror, as so many Generals have resigned, rather than wasting American Tax dollars.. NOW, BRING ME THE HEART OF A YOUNG SOUTH AMERICAN BOY, MINCE IT AND SPRINKLE IT ON MY CEREAL.."

I know a lowly Private can't do anything like that. Is there something that says a General can just say "I Quit" and then enter private life? Are there any repercussions or is it just like quitting a VP job at GE?

I have no idea, it just seems strange to me that a military person could do this. Maybe it's one of the privileges of rank?