U.S. Border Agents Seizing Laptops, Phones and Copying Info

The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/06/AR2008020604763_pf.html ) reports that federal agents at U.S. borders have been seizing and copying the contents of some travellers' laptops, cellphones, and other electronic devices.

The Association of Corporate Travel Executives (http://www.acte.org ) has tracked complaints from members whose laptops were seized without warrants and without any crime ever being charged. The laptops were usually returned days later, but one member's laptop has yet to be returned after more than a year.

At least two global corporations have directed their executives not to carry confidential business material on laptops overseas. One law firm has instructed its lawyers crossing U.S. borders to carry only "blank laptops," preferring the risks of having their docs hacked while accessing them over the internet to the risks of government search and seizure.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (http://www.eff.org/ ) and other organizations plan to sue to force the government to disclose its policies on border searches, including which rules govern the seizing and copying of the contents of electronic devices.

(Someone else posted this a couple of days ago but it apparently got lost in the noise; if you agree it's worth being aware of, pls K&R.)

If he or she does a lot of overseas travelling send him or her an E-Mail using the

word *carnivore* harmlessly dropped in to the body of the message here and there. :eyes:

1. vVolunteer for an overseas assignment
2. Claim your company laptop was seized
3. Give your child a slightly used laptop as a present

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So much for privacy and warrants...

A new shitty paradime..

He was detained for hours while they went through his laptop and questioned him about all the photos on it.

My friend's company has the "can't bring your laptop overseas" policy, but I thought they were just being paranoid. I guess not. :(

And I'll submit my usual litany of national security state measures we've acquiesced to ever since "the events of 9/11(tm)" turned us from a country of swaggering rugged individualists (albeit phony in most cases) into a country of chicken shit candy asses scared of their own shadows and looking to the Bush regime to protect them from being murdered in their beds by swarthy Islamofascists.

So we can add this latest outrage -- red ass goons in US security forces run amok and blatantly violating Fourth Amendment privacy guarantees -- to this pile of steaming totalitarian garbage we've been buried in:

As organizing principles, we now have an unprecedented litany of repressive legislation, executive orders and presidential directives; massive federal invasions of privacy regarding medical and http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/23/washington/23intel.html?ex=1308715200&en=168d69d26685c26c&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss">financial records; monitoring US citizens' electronic communications; re-targeting spy satellites for domestic surveillance; the TSA cavity search specialists (for attractive young women only; the rest are presumed to pose no threat to the state); no-fly and terrorist watch lists; Halliburton/KBR's detention camps; RFIDs in all new passports and in the new national ID cards scheduled to be issued this year; new TSA "behavior detection officers" to spot those who don't "look quite right;" all this wonderful new stuff from the DHS; private armies featuring mercenaries from companies like Blackwater and SAIC springing up like mushrooms after a light rain... All that and the Patriot Act, the http://www.aclu.org/safefree/detention/commissions.html">Military Commissions Act, http://www.aclu.org/safefree/extraordinaryrendition/22203res20051206.html">extraordinary rendition (whatever the hell that means) and torture, too. (Note: the torture link is graphic and disgusting.)

Also, see the blockquote in this post, which is a small part of H.R. 1585, the fiscal year 2008 National Defense Authorization Act. Note the orders to prepare to use regular troops -- as opposed to the Guard or Reserves -- to respond to "natural disasters and terrorist events." In other words, martial law.

I can just about hear the goose-stepping thugs now...


wp

Amurikkkan-styled neo-nazism. Have you noticed this administration has never tried to explain any of this to we the people but just go on implementing their neo-nazism, step by step, plank by plank?

...terror, terror, terrorists, terrorism, got to fight the terrorists, keep you safe from the dark fate that awaits you, it's for your own good, we know best, we're the only thing standing between you and the abyss...

And so on. Sick thing is, they've found a huge demographic that's always ready to lap that garbage up. I had no idea there were this many simpering weenies in the land of "don't tread on me" tough guys. Did you? I'm just amazed that we have that many abject cowards in our midst who've managed to hide it for so long.

In the UK, most of Western Europe, all of Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central and South America, South Asia, Russia and Korea -- which is to say, most of the rest of the world -- they've dealt for decades with bombings, suicide attacks, assassinations, coups and counter-coups and pretty much everything you can imagine that disrupts normal life and makes fear a part of the collective consciousness.

And yet, they go about their business and generally refuse to be intimidated by alleged terrorists or their governments. They look at the large percentage of the US population quivering in its boots and happily sacrificing the entire list of Constitutionally protected rights and freedoms just because George W. fucking Bush -- the ultimate fraud and leading home-grown terrorist -- tells them he'll keep the meanies away... They see this and they just roll their eyes and wonder at the bottomless American capacity for believing blatant bullshit. And they wonder at the enormous sense of entitlement that allows Americans to feel uniquely persecuted when the entire world is coming apart at the seams. What makes Americans so special that they can use 9/11 as an excuse for absolutely anything, even six years after the fact?

I think it's obvious that these craven twits don't want to know what the hell's going on. Better to be comfortably numb, as Pink Floyd says, than awake and aware. Because if they acknowledge the evidence right in front of their eyes and don't do anything about it, they'll be forced to admit to themselves that they're just gullible candy asses who don't have the stomach to resist and, worst of all, who got fooled by the stupidest bastard to ever occupy the Oval Office.

Or, even worse, if they accept the obvious, they might have to actually do something about it -- like get pissed and politically active and start agitating and becoming a pain in the ass to the Fourth Reich. And since that might get in the way of Walmart shopping day or reruns of "Cops" or a night of jerking off to Internet porn, getting educated on what's what would be just too inconvenient.

Other than all that, I'm really, really fond of my fellow Americans these days. May their worst nightmares come true and may they poop their britches every time a car backfires in the street.


wp

security will soon have neither and that this is no longer the land of the free and home of the brave. The numbers who support/are complicit with the neo-nazification of America are unbelievably astounding if not mind-boggling. And may all elected/appointed officials who support/are complicit in all this neo-nazification of America please shit their pants each and every time they fail in their sacred duty to defend, protect, and preserve the Constitution of the United States and may all their complicitors/supporters/followers shit their pants each and every time a little unexpected noise startles them. :D

I really truly hate these people.

Ahhh, just getting in touch with my inner fascist overlord. I'll need to practice so I can collaborate with the Fourth Reich and help them round up dissidents later this year.

Also, I just can't wait to sign up for that TIPS program. I was checking it out online and I really think I've got what it takes. I never realized it before, but I think becoming a rat bastard snitch might be a great career move.

And yes, I join you in really, truly hating these people -- although that's a little too light because the word "hate" doesn't begin to describe the depths of my loathing and the word "people" gives them far too much credit on the evolutionary scale.

I'll have to skim through some Hunter Thompson essays for a word that connotes the proper level of detestation. And instead of "people," I'll maybe go with cyborgs, automatons, androids -- that kind of thing might explain their behavior a little better.



wp

I thought I'd interject here, as a (former) IT security guy:

As of the last I checked into it, you can encrypt your data (using a program such as PGP - Pretty Good Protection), and it is illegal for you to be forced to reveal your password, as long as you do not admit to encrypting the data, as this would constitute self-incrimination. Essentially, the same old rule about not talking to cops without a lawyer present still holds; if you have something you want to keep private, encrypt it and refuse to answer questions about it, although a little research shows that Big Brother is pushing to limit 5th amendment protection for passwords, and given the current crop of Supreme Court Justices, we can expect it to come down on the side of their owners- er, government.

by entering the US, you consent to any search they feel like undertaking.

They can "search" all they want, but unless they get the password, all they'll find is gibberish.

it could be argued that encryption is the same as a lock on a bag that can't be opened...leading to confiscation until it can be determined to be safe.

Except that there are standing rulings that being forced to reveal a password violates the 5th amendment; my concern is more about the current challenges to that ruling than whether or not it is currently valid.

but there is also standing case law that says customs can refuse entry to any item the can't examine. so you don't have to give up your password, but they can refuse entry for your computer.

Of course, I imagine the law comes down on the side of the jack-booted thug, but it done cleverly, it could work; PGP doesn't lock out the entire computer, just the files you want accessed, and unless they plan on looking at every document on your computer, or just copy the contents, it won't do them any good.

I mean looking at the simple(by modern standards) German enigma cypher, it was only able to be cracked owing to various spy efforts and direct capture of the encoding machines. The math processing power necessary to crack the partially known code still took the most powerful computers on Earth to brute force.


Clinton was dick for trying restrict 128-bit encryption. I want his/her supporters to explain the rationale behind that policy.

1: the first rule of encryption is assume the other guy can read your mail at will. unless you wrote the software yourself, assume it can easily be broken by the NSA. Wonder why they stopped fighting encryption (in the US at least) after the late nineties? This gubmint? Really? They just gave up? How odd.

And second, even if thycan't read it for a couple millenia, assume that is when younaee getting your laptop back

Your #1 is exactly the wrong way around - unless your cryptography cypher is 100 percent public domain (TwoFish, BlowFish, TripleDES, etc), do not use it. Reason: public domain cyphers and associated encryption programs are "peer-reviewed" in the shark-infested waters of the worldwide crypto community - pros and amateurs alike. These people make a hobby of cracking crypto programs and exposing weaknesses, backdoors, etc. They become famous in the community by doing this. If a public domain cypher has withstood that level of scrutiny, then you can expect it to be pretty tight. "Back doors" and such would be spotted very quickly, and are far less likely than plain old weaknesses, which HAVE been spotted by worldwide peer review.

As for your second point, the relaxation of encryption controls was simply acknowledging a fait accompli - the Internet had made the idea of control of electronic export laughable, and the enforcement of it impossible.

From Wikipedia:
"The development, and public release, of DES and asymmetric key techniques in the 1970s, the rise of the Internet, and the willingness of some to risk and resist prosecution, eventually made this policy impossible to enforce, and by the late 1990s it was being relaxed in the US ... Legal challenges by Peter Junger and other civil libertarians and privacy advocates, the widespread availability of encryption software outside the U.S., and the perception by many companies that adverse publicity about weak encryption was limiting their sales and the growth of e-commerce, led to a series of relaxations in US export controls, culminating in 1996 in the effective elimination of export controls on mass-market "shrinkwrap" and open source software containing cryptography."

As for your point about them seizing it until they can crack it, I would not dispute that at all. And given that a cypher like TwoFish using a 256-bit key can take MILLIONS of years to crack, that's gonna be some wait.

because he wouldn't provide Customs or somesuch his computer password? That's pretty harsh.

I'm glad I don't travel anymore--the world's not a safe place, and it's definitely not because of terrorists.

Blank ones when you check in, and a built-in "wipe-out" feature when you check out..

or places like staples & office depot offering delivery of cheap "disposable" laptops to local hotels & conference centers, for business travelers..

So much for the "everything in one place" gadgets like blackberries..

the convenience of having it all in one place may have been for the "officials" who want to download & scrutinize it "evilgrin:

is online backups becoming much more popular. you put your laptop on 'travel' mode and it automatically dumps all the data onto an online backup copy, keeping your office software, but no documents. when you get to Tulsa, you resync it.

I have a friend who carries two SIM cards for his blackberry, one for customs and one for actual use. he doesn't want all his data accessible. this is what is so stupid about this, there are so many ways around it.

in case you are wondering, on my private laptop, I have an awful lot of perfectly legal, but disgustingly skanky, porn. and yes, it is legal both in the US and the places I visit, I check on that. I even have the appropriate documentation to prove it is in compliance with US law. last time I flew back into the country last month, I had that as the first thing someone would find and open. (the iphone had the SIM removed for the flight) I turned the volume way up. if the person had actually wanted to sit there and watch, I would have called a supervisor, as is any traveller's right. they want to watch anal fisting? ok.

i know someone who had his computer seized, he never got it back and it has been a few years now!

you can't prove the age of the participants in every piece of porno you ever downloaded on the internet -- you probably can't prove the age of the participants of ANY piece of porno you have on your computer unless you produced it yourself -- so you are just setting yourself up to lose your property, even if you aren't actually charged as a child pornographer

i like a good porno as much as the next person but you probably DON'T know the laws in all the countries you travel to (unless you're in the business) and it is better just to leave the stuff at home rather than drag it around the world unnecessarily

pick your battles, your mom is not going to be happy to read about you on cnn as being famous for the guy who had his anal fisting porn seized, if you're going to protest, take a stand for something you can be proud of

speaking of mom, my mom had her copy of cosmo seized as pornography at an eastern european border, but big whoop, at least she was only out the price of a magazine rather than an entire laptop computer!

I am fairly confident I know the law. And by documentation, I mean the evidence that the producers have filed the correct forms to assert that everyone is over 18, which form absolved anyone viewing the film from charges, unless it is obviously fraudulent (like a pre-teen)

And I do appreciate the warning, but I know what I am doing, where the lines are. After all, at the age of 15 I bribed a soviet border guard with a playboy and a hustler for him and vogue for his wife.

having no idea of the extent of your travels, i felt it better to err on the side of caution

people traveling to/from the uk are not the ones experiencing this problem

most of the travelers targeted that i know of are returning from asia (maybe you saw my other post in this thread, but it's quite apparent that there is a campaign going on to address the problems of child porn/trafficking, which would be great, except that the customs officials don't seem to be able to figure out how old a person is just by looking at a photo, in one case a guy was stopped because of photos of his asian wife being suspected as child porn, yes, she's petite, but she's also 40!)

on their computer anyway, especially a laptop. A program like CyberScrub or something similar that goes into every little nook and cranny, temp files, slack space, etc., and obliterates everything you don't want or think you deleted or didn't realize you downloaded is as essential as anti-virus ware today. Get one and use it. Run it overnight if it's slow (and the good ones can take a long time to wipe unused or 'deleted' data off your system). This article is the perfect example of why everyone should be doing this and also encrypting anything of any importance on their system.

In addition to the basic civil rights issues, this is an open door to corporate spying through bribing border guards.

if it does, i stand corrected

what we're seeing is customs officials who perhaps don't get out much themselves and who sincerely believe that, say, a snapshot of a child bathing in a stream in a fourth world country where children routinely bathe in public is somehow child porn

we're seeing customs officials who can't tell the difference between a petite 30 year old thai woman and a 14 year old thai girl and so they seize the computer because they truly believe they're fighting child porn or sex trafficking

i don't think we're seeing customs officials grabbing computers from employee at ABC bank and then selling the data to FGH bank

i think they honestly believe they're doing something important, it's just stupid-ass in its implementation

you will notice the focus is almost invariably on PHOTOGRAPHS, we seem to be in the middle of a porn hysteria outbreak at customs and to my mind the best protection is to leave laptops and porn (legal or not) at home

Hey, or I could make me onea them out of my thumb drive and a cat toy.

encryption tool. Any time I travel I carry all documents of value are encrypted. There is no agency that will publicly decrypt these files.

Probably only a handful who could privately.

Other suites make sure no trace is left anywhere on the machine. The file is encrypted, its original destroyed. The blocks on disk overwritten, and pagefile purged. That covers most and you can not be compelled to turn over a key, as it is in your head.

the result of terror.

Not real good reason to take away freedoms. In fact, it's called giving in to terror, which is wimpin' out.

Virtual PCs add new layer of security

This independence allows people to use public computers without a trace of their session being left behind. PCs typically store a record of activity long after the computer has been turned off.

"It's a slick way to move from machine to machine," says Rob Enderle, founder of the Enderle Group, a research firm that follows the PC industry. "It's about as safe as you can get."

The device cannot be bought. You have to make it by downloading free software onto a computer drive such as the thumb-sized USB flash memory drives that were so popular as gifts this Christmas. It also works with iPods, many other digital music players and regular external hard drives. Once the MojoPac shell is created, users need to install their own software -- just as they would do on a regular PC running Windows XP.

MojoPac's developer, RingCube Technologies, asserts that most programs are compatible, including Microsoft Office, Adobe Photoshop and a slew of free programs.

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN2041616420080103


Overview

MojoPac is a technology that transforms your iPod or USB Hard Drive or Flash drive into a portable and private PC. Just install MojoPac on any USB 2.0 compliant storage device, upload your applications and files, modify your user settings and environment preferences, and take it with you everywhere.

Every time you plug your MojoPac-enabled device into any Windows XP PC , MojoPac automatically launches your environment on the host PC. Your communications, music, games, applications, and files are all local and accessible. And when you unplug the MojoPac device, no trace is left behind – your information is not cached on the host PC.

http://www.mojopac.com/portal/content/hellomojo.jsp

From one DUer who was just wondering how snot was doing since their last meeting. :hi:

Why would any spy or terrorist just come over the border with evidence of their misdeeds on their laptop?

i don't know if they really expect to find a spy/terrorist, but it's apparent that they do expect to find child pornographers and/or sex tourists

some (not all, i'm sure) drug dealers/money launderers are probably slobs too

you can't assume that every criminal is on their "a" game, people are lazy and the attraction of the criminal life is that it provides a shortcut, someone too lazy to work for honest day's pay has a higher than average chance of being a slob when it comes to protecting their data

i don't like the spying, nor do i think it's right that they're peeping in laptops, BUT i think we're kidding ourselves if we claim they won't ever find evidence of wrong-doing that way

my concern is not the wrong doer, but the innocent person who also gets swept up in this crap

the user didn't have the windows administrator password for the computer and because he couldn't provide it they seized it.

He (a lawyer) demanded to either be returned the laptop or arrested, the agents refused to do either and he was thrown out of the airport. In retrospect he is probably fortunate he wasn't just summarily executed by gunshot or taser.

We got the machine back but we made it some lawyers full time jobs to be total assholes about it.

i mean if they are gonna rifle through your data make them at least ask.

most laptop HD come out with just a couple of screws.

they will have everything fully monitored 24/7 if we get another GOPer in...

i think it's too complicated a chain of events for a customs agent to somehow manage to interdict the correct person and get a laptop that he can auction to the highest bidder for some industrial spying cash, not saying it never happens, but saying it sounds pretty damn complicated to me

i think what really happens is that computers get seized and then eventually "disappeared" from evidence rooms never to be seen again -- well, i'm going on the anecdotal evidence of the one case known to me where the computer has been "disappeared" for years now, so it isn't ever going to be returned to the guy

i think if a customs agent is corrupt, it's more because he wants to help himself to a computer than to the data

the crime you suggest would involve too many people, a buyer for the data, the customs agent to steal the data and pick up the money -- schemes that involve multiple people get busted sooner or later and i haven't heard of this one (not to say it never happens of course)

the thing is, when you go thru customs, there are usually a number of agents, so how could the agent guarantee that the person he wants to rob of their data is going to be in HIS line? i just don't see it working often enough to worth the trouble, or you'd have to bribe all the agents on shift that day -- and trust me, you can't bribe everyone, someone will be honest or scared, someone will talk

Just supposing I have a mac laptop--
1- can they open the files on OSX? Appleworks? Apple Mail?
2- what is to stop a person from putting a particularly vicious, self installing PC virus on their Mac, inside a folder with other files? Of course it won't affect the Mac, but would attack a PC if it was transferred. Who, then is to blame for the damages to the PC, like the one that the data is being copied to?

TrueCrypt

Just released the latest version a few days ago. It'll encrypt your whole OS, on the fly. Anyone copying your hard drive will get what appears to be meaningless "noise" data.

This is pretty revolutionary- at least in that the product is FREE.

PB

snot

Wounder what Will be the voice if EUropean nation was to implement something like this, for every american who are wisting our continent... If every single american who are coming to european country are singled out, and taken all electronic gadget away for download for the government to se... I really wonder how long it Will take before CNN, FOX and all the other network Will cry hard and long about how criminal this is, and how bad this is.... :nopity:

Not long, and I know that either CNN or Fox or other networks news would think it was in response for the fact that US sizes private computers as a tool to keep a tap of everyone entering US... If that is the fact, that your private computer with Holiday pictures and letters to them home can be seized because some custom believe it to be a danger to the security of US. Then I am off to other places to make my Holiday.. Don't need to be treated like this if I visit US...

This is more and more fascism in the making.. If this are not stooped NOW, it Will end in camps and imprisonment of very many brave american who are fighting this...

The land of the free.. Not anymore I guess:cry:

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language

Many Americans would cry ABUSE! if it were other governments doing it, but it's "for our safety" when they do it here. /sigh I can't wait to move out of this country.

Can I ask where you're from? :hi:

LynzM

Many american would demand that a member of the Embassy was there before american want to talk at all. And would possible make a hell about it in the custom line that just YOU was been singlet out because he/she was american... Have seen enough of americans in custom lines, to say that if they are not been treated as royalties you hear them a quarter of a mile ahead.. No kidding...
But you have the opposite to, many polite american who are treating the custom guards with all respect, and they are very often given more service than the other kind..

I am from Norway, a little country in the north of Europe.. We are most known for our Vikings:P And our nature.. Even that the Vikings are little outdated as it is more than 1000 year since they was roaming the european continent:smoke:

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language

As an American who lived in Europe (Germany) for 9 months, I *hate* what you are describing, Americans who think they are so much better and so much more deserving. Sadly, as you say, there are many.

I haven't been to Norway yet... but hopefully in the next few years! (Hee, vikings!) Please don't worry about your language, you are certainly completely understandable, and the nuances will get better with more exposure. Heck, if you're like most other Scandinavians I met, you speak Norwegian, Finnish, English, and one or two other languages, too! :D

LynzM

It is a habit I don't like, that some believe to be better, just because they are grown up with the tone of "we are the best of the people of the world. The rest have just to get on their knees and worship us as goods":.. Can it be because many american genuine believe that they are better than the rest?. When you are costumed to be teach that US are the best of the best, and that so long you worship that idea everything is ok?. I dont belive that american are better than the rest, but I do belive they are not that bad either.. And I have seen a lot of both and I have to say, I like the later better than I like first.. Many american are polite, nice and genuine care of the country when they are wisiting it.. But you can hear the opposite long away when they are note treated as royalties.. One time I was traveling in Norway I was in a restaurant, and a cople of americans was coming in.. And started complaining about everything... Specially the food was "bad" and not to their tasting.. Even that it was a Hamburger.. I was eating my food and was not saying nothing but I was verry close to stand up, and go to the couple and tell them the pice of my mind.. Even that it may not be as polite as the servants in the restaurant trying to please the couple was doing... They was really nasty, and treated them as lowlife under theis shoose.. And i rembember that after they was going, after bitchiring about how expencive the food was for a half hour the whole restaurant have a relife "shigh"... They was maybe not that customed to the fact that Norway IS a expencive country to wisit..

You have lived in Germany for 9 months, Cool, Germany is a good country when everything coming to it. And it have had its share of history, both good and bad.,.. Can I ask what you was doing there?

Scandinavia are a part of the European continent who are a good place to live. The big City's are like all other city''s in the world, even that every city have it good places and bad places.. But if you travel outside the big City's to the countryside you may get a better idea of hwy we are what we are as nation's :evilgrin: Even that travel by road in Sweden can be little bore some.. Long right roads, with nothing to se.. But you may get a general idea then to..

Well, I am not that god in language I am afraid.. But I understand Danish, Swedish, and English pretty well. Swedish Norwegian and danish are very similar så you don't need to learn the language to understand it well. The fact that we don't "dub" everything who are coming from sweden or Denmark are to doing it better to understand the languages.. Usually it is texted in the bottom on the TV screen.. For the most part it is the same on everyone TV channel, maybe on children TV they dub some of the programs, but not everyone there to.. It is important to learn English you know Even that danish have some problem to difference between swedish and Norwegian.. The tongue is pretty like... The written language of Danish and Norwegian are very similar, and it is more in some typos you se the difference than everything else..

Hope you come to Norway, or scandinavia sometimes. It is many thing to experience here, but it can be little expensive.. So you better save up some money for the trip...

My English are been better now when I have used it, and I hope to be better as he days goes by.

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language

why would the eu give a care? it isn't affecting them, is it? in fact, it's to their competitive advantage of the usa makes it a difficult climate for internat'l business, because that business will then most likely go to the eu or the uk

yes, my holiday photos and letter to home can be seized when i re-enter the usa, no, i don't like it, but what you suggest -- that the eu also do the same thing to us when we enter europe -- how is that supposed to help? as an american i've already experienced "special" searches when departing the eu, which were obviously to show case how strict security is and to somehow impress me as an american that europeans can be just as fascist as americans, but i don't quite see how this treatment is helping me, so don't do me no favors, how about it?

one is left with the sneaking suspicion that you don't quite know what you're talking about

you don't fight fascism with more fascism

pitohui

Sir

Well, off course europe should give a care.. It is affecting us, as it is affecting you when you enter United States of America.. Do you really believe that seizure of computers and other electronic gadget are something that just happened to North-american?.. Do you really believe that it is just american from Canada USA and Mexico who are been treated as they are thief's before the US custom control?:. This is happened every day for many european, and if you had read some of the story who are coming to light the last year or so, this is something that US have been doing to EVERYONE who enter US. Not just americans..

EU Can do the same thing, if they want it. Why not, for us american can be a danger to our continent, they may be agents from CIA who are guilty of sending prisoner to country where the human rights are less profane then it is in our world.. Or they can be drug-currier, or maybe even be sending explosives by air.. Even that is been says more easy then don because of the strict security of many airports this days..

Europe can be MORE fascist if they want to do then US manage... After all Fascism, Nazism and its like are homegrown here in Europe:eyes: And if the suspicion against US are really grown in most european minds, I would not be like to come from US, Canada or Mexico the next 50-100 year or so

I am not more informed as the next in line.. But i do not like this type of behavior that US are acting today. And I really hope, and I pray the day that US can wake up, and se what really are going up.. When regular american are waking up from their dream and se what the world really are fearing about US they will revolt as one, and fight this fascism what mr Bush have been made home-made style... What the "grand old fascism" of the 1930s was not capable of doing, the current administration are inpelent, in the name of "national secuirty":..

I have travel in East Europe both before the wall was tearing down and after the wall was been tearing down. Even there, who the custom and security apparatus was wat I would call "paranoid light" when it come to items we as west-european can have with us, was not treating us with that type of contempt, arrogance and stupidity as the US custom are doing at a regular basis.. The US costume gard are even worse than the Russian KGB border gard was... And that is BAD...

So,no I don't know what I am talking about. But compared to many other nations who have some of the same experience with border guards who are pretty strict, Even then US Custom guard are in fact doing MORE HARM TO the image you want to get your visitors.. Think about if a first-visitor to US have its computers seizes himself locket in a Small cubicle and been interrogates as he was trying to blow up a airplane on the apron... That is NOT the image US want to get out are it?:sarcasm:

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language

Will they actually make an effort to reverse all the rights destroying of the current administration? Looking at how the dems behave in congress, I have my doubts. They will probably still need one hell of a push from the base.

The US is sinking into fascism faster than the Titanic in the ocean and it will take more than a cork to stop the leak.

i want you to think about this for a minute

the greatest gift the GOP could ever get is for the democrat to roll back certain anti-terrorist provisions and then for a terrorist event to occur

most people are not frequent flyers or international travelers, most people don't give a damn about my rights, believe me, i've tried, and this is a no-win situation

my hope is that the democrat will FIRST address issues that affect everyone (specifically health care and some kind of protection for social security, such that it can't be gambled away in "private" investments or stolen from us by "means testing")

we need a groundswell of people behind the democrat to get ANYTHING done and unfortunately for us travelers, the right not to have our laptops (or our persons!) searched at customs is way low on most people's list

believe me, having just received a message from another friend who was stopped and searched at customs, and i don't mean just his laptop, i mean his body, i am very concerned about this issue, but i don't see any good that can come of making this a priority issue, instead, we need to make a priority of protecting ourselves by not carrying laptops or anything else that can be misinterpreted

What would happen if the border agents attempted to log-in to a computer that was primed as a viral delivery platform?

Your defense? "I had been trying to get that damned thing fixed for months!"

According to an NPR? report I heard, some people just had their laptops evaporate into secure space! GET A RECEIPT!