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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:13 PM
Original message
U.S. Govt. plans to use evidence from torture in death penalty case
Edited on Mon Feb-11-08 08:16 PM by Solly Mack
"Today Military commission charges were handed down that seek the death penalty against CCR's client Guantánamo detainee Mohammed al Qahtani.

No military commission against Mr. Al Qahtani will ever achieve justice. Instead, it will deteriorate into a controversy over secret trials and the United States' well-documented torture of Mr. al Qahtani during interrogations at Guantánamo.

Read more about Al Qahtani's Torture


At Guantánamo, Mohammed al Qahtani was subjected to a regime of aggressive interrogation techniques, known as the “First Special Interrogation Plan,” that were authorized by U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. Those techniques were implemented under the supervision and guidance of Secretary Rumsfeld and the commander of Guantánamo, Major General Geoffrey Miller. These methods included, but were not limited to, forty-eight days of severe sleep deprivation and 20-hour interrogations, forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, physical force, prolonged stress positions and prolonged sensory overstimulation, and threats with military dogs. The aggressive techniques, standing alone and in combination, resulted in severe physical and mental pain and suffering. To this day, Mr. al Qahtani has not received any therapeutic medical evaluation of or treatment for the physical or psychological injuries from his abuse. He continues to suffer from ongoing psychological pain and suffering arising from his torture and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment.

Despite evidence of U.S. officials’ responsibility for and complicity in his torture and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, no U.S. official has ever been held accountable.



For the past six years, the United States government has refused to conduct traditional criminal trials or courts martial against Guantanamo detainees suspected of wrongdoing.

Instead, the military commissions at Guantanamo allow secret evidence, hearsay evidence, and evidence obtained through torture. They are unlawful, unconstitutional, and a perversion of justice.


Read more about military comissions


On November 13, 2001, President Bush issued an executive order which purported to establish military commissions to try those captured in the “War on Terror.” Under the order, the President authorized trials by military commission upon a presidential determination that there was “reason to believe” a detainee is or was an Al Qaeda member or engaged in hostilities targeting the United States. The order narrowed the scope of procedural protections for military commissions relative to the traditional courts-martial process, sharply limited the avenues for review of commission decisions, and granted discretion to “close” any portion of the proceeding and thereby exclude the accused from access to relevant evidence or the hearing itself. Furthermore, the order allowed for the admission of coerced statements or statements made by absent or undisclosed sources.

The President’s authority to establish military commissions without congressional approval was successfully challenged in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld. In response to the habeas petition of a military commission defendant, the Supreme Court ruled in June 2006 that the President overstepped his authority when creating military commissions inconsistent with domestic and international law.

Subsequently, however, Congress passed legislation authorizing military commissions. The Military Commissions Act (MCA) was enacted in direct response to the Supreme Court’s decision. In addition to the jurisdiction-stripping provisions described above, the MCA authorized the creation of military commissions with procedures deviating from the traditional rules of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Among other shortcomings, the MCA rejects the right to a speedy trial, allows a trial to continue in the absence of the accused, delegates the procedure for appointing military judges to the discretion of the Secretary of Defense, allows for the introduction of coerced evidence at hearings, permits the introduction of hearsay and evidence obtained without a warrant, and denies the accused full access to exculpatory evidence.


Now the government is seeking to execute people based on this utterly unreliable and tainted evidence: it is difficult to imagine a more morally reprehensible system. Executions based on secret trials and torture evidence belong to another century. These barbaric sham proceedings will likely to inflame the controversy surrounding Guantanamo and draw the condemnation of even our allies.

Career military officers have already resigned because they could not stomach participating in a military commission system that goes against every principle of justice, due process and the rule of law. In particular, they were opposed to precisely the kinds of issues that will be the focus of Mr. al Qahtani's commission - the United States' use of torture and subsequent efforts to hide the criminal conduct of U.S. personnel.

Mr. al Qahtani may be the one charged today, but it is the illegality of his interrogation under torture that will be tried in the commission. Regardless of the results, no one will ever have confidence in the outcome of these military commissions.


The United States has nothing legitimate to gain from prosecuting prisoners in military commissions at Guantanamo and a great deal to lose.

What kind of a nation have we become that we would rely on torture evidence, secret trials and an untested and deeply flawed system to impose the death penalty?

Our nation must abandon the failed experiment at Guantanamo. If the administration believes Mr. Al Qahtani has committed a crime, he should be charged and tried in a lawful proceeding worthy of our country."


from email received today from CCR




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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. I just read an article on why the bush admin is pushing this through so fast
In a nutshell, they want the cases moving forward while they're in power because then it would be nearly impossible for the next president to to stop the trials once they've got the public on board.

They're sick, sick bastards. Period.

Air Force Col. Moe Davis, who resigned as the Guantanamo chief prosecutor earlier this year because of what he considered political interference, suggested the Bush administration was racing the clock to ensure the trials went forward after he leaves office.

"Several layers below the White House, there was kind of a common theme that these things had to get going before the election," Davis said. "If you get that train rolling, it's going to make it difficult for whoever wins the election to stop that. Who's going to tell the 9-11 families they want to stop this process?

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N2B645334.htm"


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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks for adding that, Lone_Star_Dem!
It's all just so sickening
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Sickening is a good word to describe it
Any information coerced via torture should never be admissible in a court of law. That the torturers were Americans and this farce of a trial is about to take place here in the USA, in my own damn country...It makes me ill.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Exactly. It's all a farce. And our government will present the trials as a win
for democracy...as a win for justice.

And once those men are dead, the government will claim it's over and nothing can be done about it...but only after they are dead. When it's too late to stand up and do the right thing.

And we'll be told to move on and work to see that it never happens again

When so much can be done right now to prevent further abuses and outrages... and to hold those in our government guilty of war crimes accountable





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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Also....
Edited on Mon Feb-11-08 08:59 PM by wildbilln864
dead men tell no tales! Especially about torture. :hi:
I read some speculation that they'll also be convicted and executed before the Bush/PNAC cabal's term is up.
on edit: And K&R!
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yep..dead men can't talk
Just another way of destroying the evidence to Bush Inc.

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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. They also want to tie McInsane's hands should he become Prez, in order
to provide themselves immunity from prosecution for charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

The truly sad irony is that we have already 'lost' Iraq and are well on our way to 'losing' Afghanistan, if we haven't already done so in the case of Afghanistan.

Today it is fair to say that the vast majority of the world's 1.2 billion Muslims hate America, hate its government and increasingly hate its people who it sees as Bush enablers. What's coming in the next 30 years will make the Thirty Years War look positively tame by comparison.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. '...no U.S. official has ever been held accountable.'
How has it come to this? Our future generations will vilify us for allowing this to continue.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I believe they will too.
They'll ask "Why didn't they stop it?" and "How could they let it happen?"

People talk about what history will say about Bush, but history won't be kind to any of us for what is happening now.



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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. "What kind of a nation have we become
that we would rely on torture evidence, secret trials and an untested and deeply flawed system to impose the death penalty?"

Amerika has become the same kind of Nation that was condemned after WW2.

What can be done to stop these secret trials based upon Torture?
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yep...exactly that kind of nation.
The SCOTUS could step in...if they would.

Congress could do something about that horrible MCA.

Holding Torture Inc. (Bush admin.) accountable would help.

Things can be done...but I doubt those things will happen.

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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. The exact same kind of nation we used to oppose
Joe Stalin himself couldn't be running Guantanamo any better than Bush is. For many readers, Solzhenitsyn's novels about Stalin's prison camps were great literature about an horrific system. For the Bush administration, they were a blueprint.
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. The exact same questions we asked about the Germans after WW II.
Now we know. :banghead:
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Precisely
and those questions are still being asked...even with all the books on the subject

Because no answer will ever satisfy...no answer will ever make it understandable

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R. Wasn't this part of the MCA??? Evidence gained through
torture could be used in court.

:shrug:

"What kind of a nation have we become..."

:(
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yes...the MCA allows it
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Great! It must be OK then, both my Democratic Senators voted for
the bill.

:(
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. I so remember that vote....and always will
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Yes and look how far we've come since that day :( n/t
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. I can't wait to try this out!!!
All I have to do is start finding random people to torture, get confessions for all the unsolved crimes of the last 200 years, and I'll be a hero!!!

God bless the New America!
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Breaking the law is our patriotic duty
The telecoms, and some in Congress, say it is anyway
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. It's true, in a world where these guys can get away
with raping the Constitution, then killing it, stuffing it, and mounting it on a wall, then proudly pointing to how they have "preserved" it.

Thanks for the thread. K&R.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Our government wants to shut 'us' up. At all levels.
They all understand that mass conumerism can substane them forever, while we grunts shit it out on a day to day basis. We can lose our right to speak up, for fear of blackmail to 'rendering'. Something I like to call TORTURE.

Some want us silent to the rest of the world. And that silence can be as easy as internet restriction to outright torture of mind and body. If you religious folks haven't thought there need to pray for our liberties, you've waited too long.

Better start praying.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. I'm almost to the point where I'm going to claim to be a Canadian....
.... when I travel overseas. Frankly, I'm embarassed by this country.






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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Oh, I admit to being American
but then with my southern drawl... :D



still... yes, I'm embarrassed too

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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Teehee....
And actually, most people I've met overseas separate the American government from Americans, although after 2004, and Bush's re-election, people seemed a little more down on Americans when I visited Europe. Not on me, because I was vocally anti-Bush, but generally down on Americans.

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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Yes!
After 2004, I had people asking me if Bush was what we wanted since he's back in office.



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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. Look, if they were innocent, they would float.
Let's return to the good old days of American jurisprudence...
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. It wouldn't surprise me any if we did
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. everyday i think i'm at the peak of my outrage.......
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. I know!! The hits just keep coming
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. grrrrrrrr
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
32. FWIW.... Human Rights First Opposes Military Commissions
Legislation

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/etn/index.asp

Good collection of information, just posting the link since I had it open.


"Congress Puts Bush Administration on Notice: Stop Using Abusive Interrogation Methods (12/22/05)"

A notice without consequences...
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Thanks for the link!!
Appeals to Bush's honor...integrity....decency...won't work...for obvious reasons.

Telling Bush "No" without actual consequences is just another day in the life of Bush. It's been that way for him since birth...



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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. YW, another no consequences day for the Bush admin. n/t
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Yep :(
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
33. I suppose this is why they admitted to the three waterboarding cases
That prepared people for the fact that they would use torture-derived evidence in a court of law.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Get people "used" to the idea? How sick is that?
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. It's very sick
It seems like there has been a process of slowly re-norming the population to accept the formerly unacceptable. It doesn't always work, thankfully.
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. It doesn't have to work in the sense that people become OK with this madness...
It can also work when people become too scared to do anything about it, talk about it, write about it, even think about it.

And I think we're there now, done in as a culture by the combined toxicity of this horrible toady media, the gradual and steady elimination of our rights and freedoms, the crushing weight of consumer debt, the psychological chaos inflicted by job insecurity, deteriorating salaries and working conditions for those who still have jobs, watching kids becoming soulless android as teachers teach to the test while killing creativity and independent thought... Just a random sampling of life in BushCo land.

Others refuse to be silent: those who use the Internet to make their positions known, to advocate for the end of BushCo, and who will be singled out for a little special attention unless this goddamn useless congress impeaches these motherfuckers before they can do any more damage.

Conyers is waffling again, of course, playing the hard-to-get homecoming queen, begging to be convinced for the 97th time, holding out for more pleading and groveling, reveling in his own importance.

And then, just when you think it's maybe, finally going to happen, he'll cave again and the fondest desires of maybe 50 million Americans, not to mention most of the rest of the world, will be dashed one more time.

Jesus Christ! How much more of this crap are people willing to take? How is it possible to absorb seven years of BushCo's daily outrages without pushing back?

But who to push back at? How about the corporate slimeballs whose money has propelled these snakes into power and kept them there?

Maybe now would be a nice time to get into the streets, shut down what's left of the wheezing economy with a general strike, stop paying credit card bills, drag mortgage payments out till the last day before penalties set in, refuse to pay medical insurance premiums and use the ER instead, and generally screw up these vampires' revenue streams for a couple of months...

Appeals to decency, benevolence, fair play and cutting a little damn slack fall into the void. However, they're pretty serious about anything that might cut their quarterly earnings per share by a penny.

Using this pressure point as a guideline, why give them another nickel until dozens of CEOs -- who've gotten insanely rich (or richer) off of BushCo wars, surveillance obsession and propaganda spewing -- call their top political stooges and tell them to support impeachment or they'll cut off their allowances.

Nobody listens to the peasants, and nobody ever will. But when the heads of companies like GE, Time Warner, AT&T, Verizon, Viacom, Northrup Grumman, Blue Cross, Aetna, Lockheed-Martin, Dynacorp, Disney and the rest of these autocratic fiefdoms threatens to cut their political employees off at the pocket book, I have a sneaking suspicion that H Res. 333 might find its way back onto Ms. Nancy's table.


wp
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
34. K&R n/t
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
38. On the news just now: Even if those men are found not guilty
they could still be held indefinitely as a national security risk

They also talked with some "911" family members and they wanted "fair" trials and not execution with "tainted" (torture) evidence


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