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Some thoughts on Barack Obama’s Presidential Candidacy

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 01:18 AM
Original message
Some thoughts on Barack Obama’s Presidential Candidacy
My purpose in describing my thoughts about Barack Obama is neither to push his candidacy nor to impair it. Rather, I simply feel that, having read his book, “The Audacity of Hope”, I have something to add to the discussion. I do have some mixed feelings about him, as you will see if you read this, and I am interested to hear what others think about some of my concerns.

First, I should describe where I’m coming from on this issue: I am a liberal, as I describe in this post. What is a “liberal”? As we all know, it has been defined differently at different times, as well as by different people at any given time. Here is a brief summary of how I defined it in the above noted post:

Liberals believe in the sacredness of human beings, regardless of their race, gender, nationality, religious beliefs, sexual preference, etc. They therefore believe that all people should have the opportunity for a good life, and they are willing to question and challenge the status quo if they believe that is necessary in order to afford people that opportunity

These sentiments are very similar to those expressed in our Declaration of Independence. And our Constitution, especially including its first ten amendments (Bill of Rights), as well as amendments XIII, XIV, XV, XVI, XIX, and XXIV, represents the attempt to provide the safeguards of individual liberty that are necessary to make a reality out of the opportunities espoused in our Declaration of Independence.

Probably most conservatives would say, if asked, that they believe in these documents that proclaim the American dream. And perhaps there was a time when many conservatives could truthfully claim that to be the case. Not any longer – at least not those conservatives who belong to the Republican Party. After supporting the Bush administration for several years as it has attempted to subvert our Constitution and otherwise negate the opportunities that Americans have fought for and accumulated over more than two centuries, few if any of today’s Republicans have the right to claim that.

So that’s where I’m coming from. I’m a staunch liberal, and the liberalness of the Democratic Presidential candidates will be an extremely important consideration as I decide whom to vote for next November.

As I stated above, I have some mixed feelings about Barack Obama – and most of my ambivalence about him has to do with the question of how liberal he really is. In many respects he seems to be quite liberal. For the good majority of Senate votes where Democrats and Republicans have voted differently, Obama voted with the Democrats. Yet, many actions and statements of his make me feel that he leans too much towards the center.

Of course, leaning towards the center could be considered good political strategy for someone running for President of the United States. Maybe it’s even essential for a Black man running for President of our country today. Hey, even Abraham Lincoln occasionally made what would be considered racist remarks in today’s world, in order to maintain viability for his Presidential aspirations. Therefore, I am willing to give a candidate a pass on a certain amount of posturing. The most important question is, what will the candidate do if elected to the Presidency? Will his/her agenda be ruled primarily by political considerations? Or will s/he be willing to take some political risks in order to do what is best for the people of our country?

What I will do here is discuss first some things that cause me to have some doubts that an Obama Presidency will be conducted largely in accordance with my liberal values. And next I will discuss things that cause me to believe that an Obama Presidency will be conducted largely in accordance with my values. There is a considerable amount of evidence for both possibilities. And while it is still possible that I may vote for him in the Democratic primaries (depending on what transpires between now and then and who is still running when the Maryland primaries are held), at this time I am not very likely to vote for him, given that the doubts I have about him exceed those I have about some of the other candidates.


Some reasons for doubts I have about Obama

Alexander Cockburn concludes in his article in The Nation: “Obama: As He Rises, He Falls”, that “Obama is concerned with the task of reassuring the masters of the Democratic Party, and beyond that the politico-corporate establishment, that he is safe.” That may well be true, but so what? Don’t all national politicians do that to some extent? The more important question is to what extent his efforts to “reassure the politico-corporate establishment that he is safe” will prevent him from acting on behalf of the American people if he gets elected. That’s what I’m most worried about.

I found the first chapter of Obama’s book, which he titled “Republicans and Democrats”, and in which he establishes his moderate political credentials, to be very irritating. Much of it reads almost as if he’s some sort of TV journalist who has to make every effort to be fair to both sides – and in the process I felt that he was at many points unfair to his own Democratic Party in his attempt to cast them as too liberal. I was especially unhappy with this part of his book because it was released just as our country was in the midst of a crucially important election campaign for the control of Congress. Here are some examples of what I consider Obama’s unfair yet subtle criticisms of Democrats or liberals, with my editorial comments in parentheses in red:

I also think my party can be smug, detached, and dogmatic at times. I believe in the free market, competition, and entrepreneurship, and think no small number of government programs (He’s obviously referring to liberal programs here) don’t work as advertised...

We Democrats are just, well, confused. There are those who still champion the old-time religion, defending every New Deal and Great Society program from Republican encroachment, achieving ratings of 100 percent from the liberal interest groups (Liberal interest groups?!)

Mainly, though, the Democratic Party has become the party of reaction. In reaction to a war that is ill conceived, we appear suspicious of all military action. In reaction to those who proclaim the market can cure all ills, we resist efforts to use market principles to tackle pressing problems… We lose elections and hope for the courts to foil Republican plans. We lose the courts and wait for a White House scandal. And increasingly we feel the need to match the Republican right in stridency and hardball tactics. (Who the hell is he talking about?)

Yet our debate on education seems stuck between those who want to dismantle the public school system and those who would defend an indefensible status quo, between those who say money makes no difference in education and those who want more money without any demonstration that it will be put to good use (i.e., Democrats just want to throw money towards education, without worrying about whether it will be put to good use)

We know that the battle against international terrorism is at once an armed struggle and a contest of ideas… But follow most of our foreign policy debates, and you might believe that we have only two choices – belligerence or isolationism (i.e., most Democrats who think we should get out of Iraq are isolationists) ….

Yet publicly it’s difficult to find much soul-searching or introspection on either side of the divide, or even the slightest admission of responsibility for the gridlock (i.e., Democrats are equally to blame for the incompetence of the Republican Congress prior to 2007) ….

I began silently registering … the point at which the denunciations of capitalism or American imperialism came too easily, and the freedom from the constraints of monogamy or religion was proclaimed without fully understanding the value of such constraints, and the role of victim was too readily embraced as a means of shedding responsibility, or asserting entitlement… All of which may explain why, as disturbed as I might have been by Ronald Reagan’s election in 1980…and his gratuitous assaults on the poor, I understood his appeal. That Reagan’s message found such a receptive audience spoke not only to his skills as a communicator; it also spoke to the failures of liberal government… For the fact was that government at every level had become too cavalier about spending taxpayer money… A lot of liberal rhetoric did seem to value rights and entitlements over duties and responsibilities… Nevertheless, by promising to side with those who worked hard, obeyed the law, cared for their families, and loved their country, Reagan offered Americans a sense of a common purpose that liberals seemed no longer able to muster (sigh) ….

To be fair to him, he does criticize Republicans just as much or maybe even a little bit more than Democrats in the first chapter of his book. And he does provide some disclaimers, like:

This telling of the story is too neat, I know…

I know of very few elected Democrats who neatly fit the liberal caricature…

I won’t deny my preference for the story the Democrats tell, nor my belief that the arguments of liberals are more often grounded in reason and fact.

Still, I don’t feel that the disclaimers excuse the way he cuts down his own party right before a crucial election, in his attempt to establish himself as a centrist.

And I felt that this statement showed a kind of insensitivity to the seriousness of our election problems:

I found myself casting my first vote, along with seventy-three of the seventy-four others voting that day, to install George W. Bush for a second term as president of the United States. I would get my first big batch of phone calls and negative mail after this vote. I called back some of my disgruntled Democratic supporters, assuring them that yes, I was familiar with the problems in Ohio, and yes, I thought an investigation was in order, but yes, I still believed George Bush had won the election…

And an insensitivity to our country’s drift (or march) towards fascism as well:

When Democrats rush up to me at events and insist that we live in the worst of political times, that a creeping fascism is closing its grip around our throats, I may mention the internment of Japanese Americans under FDR, the Alien and Sedition Acts under John Adams …

Some of his actions have demonstrated the same tendency. For example, when his fellow Senator from Illinois courageously exposed our torture of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay and accurately added:

If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in the gulags, or some mad regime – Pol Pot or others – that had no concern for human beings….

Obama managed to respond to that with a centrist approach as well. Although he “defended” his colleague and even drew some criticism from the rabid right for doing so, I don’t think that it was much of a defense. Obama said:

We have a tendency to demonize and jump on and make mockery of each other across the aisle, and that is particularly pronounced when we make mistakes. Each and every one of us is going to make a mistake once in a while...and what we hope is that our track record of service, the scope of how we've operated and interacted with people, will override whatever particular mistake we make.

Richard Durbin did not make a mistake (Note that Obama uses that word three times in his “defense” of Durbin) by courageously exposing the sordid manner in which the Bush administration treats its prisoners. If he made a mistake at all, his mistake was in apologizing for his statements.

Nor do I feel all the comfortable with Obama’s voting record. Though his votes in general establish him as a liberal, there have been some notable exceptions.

For example, in 2006 the Drum Major Institute for Public Policy produced a report card on how often Congresspersons voted on major issues with the middle class vs. with the wealthy. Obama was given a “C” by them for voting with the middle class six out of eight times. That compares with two Bs (Biden and Dodd) and an A (Clinton) for his Senate colleagues who are candidates for the Democratic nomination in 2008. Obama voted for the Energy Policy Act of 2005, which provided massive subsidies to the energy industry, deregulated the oil and gas industry with respect to some important environmental safeguards, and facilitated consolidation of public utilities by deregulating them. The Class Action Fairness Act that Obama voted for primarily provided a big boon to corporate malfeasance by making class action suits against them nearly impossible. I am not aware that Obama has explained either of those votes.

I am aware that Obama maintains that he has been against the Iraq War from the start, and he has even introduced a plan to remove combat troops from Iraq by March 2008. But then why did he vote against a plan (which 13 Democrats voted for) in June 2006 to withdraw our troops within twelve months? Perhaps it has something to do with his statements to the effect that it would be irresponsible to leave Iraq too precipitously. But why? I would love to hear him explain why that would be irresponsible, given that we have never accomplished anything remotely beneficial there since our invasion in 2003.


Some reasons I have for confidence in Obama

If the rest of his book was like the first chapter, I would simply write Barack Obama off as a DINO. But after the first chapter it gets much better, and he sounds like a real Democrat and a real liberal. And not only that, but his discussions of numerous issues are very well thought out and explained in substantial detail, with an eloquence and an apparent sincerity that match his oratorical eloquence. I was very impressed – which I hadn’t thought possible after reading the first chapter.

In his excellent chapter about our Constitution, Obama has this to say about the abuse of power by today’s Republicans:

What troubled me was the process – or lack of process – by which the White House and its congressional allies disposed of opposing views; the sense that the rules of governing no longer applied, and that there were no fixed meanings or standards to which we could appeal. I was as if those in power had decided that habeas corpus and separation of powers were niceties that only got in the way… and could therefore be disregarded…

On special interests:

I’ve never been entirely comfortable with the term “special interests,” which lumps together ExxonMobil and bricklayers, the pharmaceutical lobby and the parents of special-ed kids… to my mind, there’s a difference between a corporate lobby whose clout is based on money alone, and a group of like-minded individuals… coming together to promote their interests; between those who use their economic power to magnify their political influence far beyond what their numbers might justify, and those who are simply seeking to pool their votes to sway their representatives. The former subvert the very idea of democracy. The latter are its essence.

On the corporate media:

… corrosive aspect of modern media – how a particular narrative, repeated over and over again and hurled through cyberspace at the speed of light, eventually becomes a hard particle of reality how political caricatures and nuggets of conventional wisdom lodge themselves in our brain without us ever taking the time to examine them… Bush is “decisive” no matter how often he changes his mind. A vote or speech by Hillary Clinton that runs against type is immediately labeled calculating; the same move by John McCain burnishes his maverick credentials.

On his acknowledgement of the effects of globalization:

The result has been the emergence of what some call a “winner-take-all economy, in which a rising tide doesn’t necessarily lift all boats. Over the past decade, we’ve seen strong economic growth but anemic job growth; big leaps in productivity but flat lining wages; hefty corporate profits, but a shrinking share of those profits going to workers… the effects ca be dire – a future in the ever-growing pool of low-wage service work, with few benefits, the risk of financial ruin in the event of an illness…

On energy and the environment:

Just about every scientist outside the White House believes climate change is real, is serious, and is accelerated by the continued release of carbon dioxide… If the prospect of melting ice caps, rising sea levels, changing weather patterns, more frequent hurricanes… if all that doesn’t constitute a serious threat,, I don’t know what does.

So far, the Bush Administration’s energy policy has been focused on subsidies to big oil companies and expanded drilling… What we can do is create renewable, cleaner energy sources for the twenty-first century. Instead of subsidizing the oil industry, we should end every single tax break the industry currently receives and demand that 1 percent of the revenues from oil companies with over $1 billion in quarterly profits go toward financing alternative energy research and the necessary infrastructure…

There’s lots more, but I think you get the picture. Beyond the first chapter, the book is for the most part excellent, discussing intelligently and in much detail most of the important issues of our day. Anyone who says that Barack Obama hasn’t expressed his views to the American people hasn’t read his book.


Conclusion

I see no reason to believe that Barack Obama wouldn’t make as good a President as most of our post World War II Democratic Presidents, and a much better President than all of our Republican Presidents of the past several decades, with the possible exception of Eisenhower.

But given the current state of affairs in our country, my opinion is that we now need a great President, not just a good one. We now need a President who is able to recognize the many serious problems facing us and who will not be afraid to go against the grain – against the powerful corporate interests who exert disproportionate power in our country today – to solve those problems.

In particular, we need a President who recognizes the sorry state of our election system; who considers the corrupting influence of money in politics as a major threat to our democracy; who recognizes the monopolization of our news media by a handful of corporate giants as a major threat to our democracy; who recognizes international cooperation and international law as essential to the well being of our country and our world; who recognizes government secrecy as a major threat to democracy; who recognizes a 431 to one ratio of CEO to worker wages as a threat to democracy and the well being of our citizens; and who will courageously take action to address all of these major threats.

A great President, when faced with problems of the magnitude that we currently face, is not an overly cautious President. A great Presidential candidate would not look at today’s Bush/Cheney regime and be content to say, “Oh, don’t worry, there has been worse” – rather s/he would recognize the need to challenge that regime and move to do so.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. Little comment re: the "safe" thing and Alexander Cockburn
I didn't have the time to do more than skim your thoughts at this hour, which I regret, but... I get the feeling that for someone on the fringe like Cockburn, a true hero would never debase himself to be what people generally call "electable" or to be acceptable to major movers and shakers in the Democratic Party. A true hero would renounce such pleasantries and cry out from the wilderness, and no true hero could, or ever would, be elected to the office of President. A true hero would be marginalized on the fringe, just like... no, exactly like... Alexander Cockburn.

I'd love to settle for someone electable who's orders of magnitude better than the President the US presently has, personally.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yes, I agree -- I too feel that Cockburn's criticisms are often unwarranted
And even in this case I said of his concluding criticism of Obama, "So what?"

I do not base the concerns that I have about Obama on Cockburn's criticisms of him -- I just used his quote as a starting point for my discussion. And I do believe Cockburn's quote was accurate -- though not very significant.
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. Have you seen this video of Obama in 2002 or his antiwar speech of 2002?
Firstly, good diary. I'm more sympathetic to Obama than you are at this point but I think you've really thought this through and have laid out your critique very fairly.

Here are some items that may be of some interest to you: these were both during his Senate race. This is a very impressive interview that should give you some confidence of his views on foreign policy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzmXy226po

Here is his 2002 speech:


http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/26/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php>

I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil.

I don't oppose all wars. My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil.

I don't oppose all wars. After September 11, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again.

I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne. What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income, to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Now let me be clear: I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power.... The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him. But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors...and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars. So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure that...we vigorously enforce a nonproliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil through an energy policy that doesn't simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair.


I'll add that Obama has ALWAYS been known as judicious and level-headed. To me, his politeness to conservatives is a sign of strength, not a sign of weakness. Read this profile of his time at the Harvard Law Review: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-na-obama27jan27,0,2441347,full.story

I'd also encourage you to read Obama's first book, Dreams From My Father; it's a memoir of his experience growing up, but it's a really good book. Genuinely good, not just by political standards. It'll get you a fuller idea of who Obama is as a person, not just the politician.



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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thank you -- That IS a very good speech
Edited on Tue Feb-27-07 08:10 AM by Time for change
(Unfortunately, the audio on my computer isn't working now, so I couldn't use your U-tube link.)

I do believe I understand where you're coming from on this. I don't feel that Obama's being polite to conservatives per se should be seen as a weakness (although I admit it does irritate me to hear him say things like "I had found the President to be a likable man"), since I so detest Bush.

But for example, when he makes the point that there are many "pro-life" people who sincerely believe that protecting fetuses against abortion is an important moral issue, I agree with that, and I've even said the same thing on DU before, for which some people were very upset with me.

But I see a difference between being polite to Republicans (which I can't criticize) and insulting Democrats from the right with statements that I don't see as accurate. In the examples I give above, for example, Obama criticizes Democrats (very subtely) for being isolationist and he even calls them reactionary when he says "In reaction to a war that is ill conceived, we appear suspicious of all military action." Where on earth does he get that from? I don't see that he has any basis in fact for saying that. Is he complaining about Democrats for being suspicious of the information they receive from Bush and Cheney with respect to Iran? Can he possibly believe that it is possible to be too suspicious of what they say?

I don't have much tolerance for Democrats who negatively campaign against other Democrats, when that is likely to hurt our chances against Republicans, as I describe here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1580379

It's not as bad to say negative things about abstract, unnamed Democrats, as I believe Obama does in his book. We'll see as time goes on whether or not Obama resorts to negative campaigning against him fellow Democrats. If he doesn't, that will raise my opinion of him and I'll have to rethink some of the things I said here.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
5. He strikes me as a liberal/progressive pragmatist.
Everyone in the Democratic party has gripes about various parts of our narrative and collective beliefs.

Makes him a thinker and not a follower.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Could be
What do you think specifically of his criticisms of the Democratic Party that I discuss in the first part of my OP? Do you think those criticisms are justified?
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. His comments about us being too reactive are dead-on.
Especially in foreign policy/national defense. We tend to define ourselves and our policies in reaction to how the Republicans define themselves and their initiatives.

I certainly don't think Democrats on Capitol Hill are dogmatic in opposition to private enterprise in general, but market-based ideas probably are met with more skepticism than is warranted on occasion.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. So for example does that mean that you agree with Obama's comment about
Democrats being suspicious of all wars? -- and that is implied in a negative sense, meaning that they are too suspicious of ALL wars, i.e., soft on national defense.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Without having read the full context, I would surmise that
he could be referring to a reflex to avoid any armed conflict because of what happened in Iraq--people now thinking that we never should have gone into Afghanistan, for instance.

The Michael Moore pacifist wing of the Democratic party has no influence--even Dennis Kucinich didn't vote against the AUMF for Afghanistan.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Ok, but how can he seriously talk about a reflex to avoid any armed conflict because
Edited on Tue Feb-27-07 10:33 PM by Time for change
of what happened in Iraq. There's only one potential armed conflict that has come up since Iraq, and that's Iran. So either he's talking about Iran, or he's making the whole thing up from scratch, or out of his imagination.

And if he's talking about Iran, who could seriously blame anyone for being suspicious (the word he uses) of anything that Bush or Cheney says?

I just think that that kind of talk about his own party has no basis in reality.

And with regard to the so-called "pacifist" wing of the Democratic Party, I doubt that we have any elected representatives in Congress who are actually pcifists. Of course Democrats, and anyone else now, is suspicious of any war plans that eminate from our current administration. One would have to be totally divorced from reality not to be suspicious of anything they say.
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Czolgosz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks. This was a thoughtful and helpful essay. I have also struggled with the question whether
Obama is progressive enough to best reflect my views.

It is my conclusion, after much vote analysis, that Kucinich, Edwards, Clark, and Dodd are all noticeably more progressive than Obama, and Hillary and Richardson are noticeably less progressive, and Biden is more progressive on a few issues and less progressive on a few issues, but perhaps slightly less progressive overall.

At some point, you have to draw a line in the sand. For me, that line has Kucinich, Edwards, Clark, Dodd, and Obama (Gore, too, if he enters the race which I am beginning to doubt) on one side and Biden, Hillary, and Richardson on the other side of the line.

Would I rather see Gore, Edwards, or Clark win the nomination instead of Obama because of Obama's less-than-progressive views on some issues which are important to me? Yes.

Would I rather see Obama win the nomination instead of Hillary or Richardson? Yes.

As compared to Hillary and Richardson, there can be no question that Obama better reflects my views on

(1) ending the war,
(2) misnamed bankruptcy "reform,"
(3) judicial discretion for criminal sentencing rather than automatic mandatory jail time,
(4) NAFTA vs. Fair Trade,
(5) public school financing vs. de-funding by vouchers,
(6) broader access to health care vs. medical savings accounts,
(7) tax cuts for corporations and the ultra-wealthy,
(8) the death penalty and protecting the right to habeas corpus in death penalty cases,
(9) automatic citizenship for children born in the USA,
(10) and overall closeness to the DLC.

While Obama is not perfect, he is measurably more progressive than Hillary and Richardson and marginally more progressive on several issues as compared to Biden.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Thank you -- My views on this are about the same as yours
In 04 I intended to vote for Clark, but he was gone by the time the primaries came to my state, and Kucinich didn't seem electable, so I voted for Edwards. I feel about the same this time around, although I don't know if Clark will be running. Gore is another possibility. He will run, I believe, if he gets drafted.

And I would have loved to vote for Feingold or Boxer -- too bad they're not running.

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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. In 2004 I supported Clark nationally,
Edited on Tue Feb-27-07 02:53 PM by rebel with a cause
Obama in State Senate race. Even though Clark had dropped out by the time of our primary, I voted for him anyway. I volunteered for Obama and talked to him several times. I support him today, If Clark came back in, I would have to probably support them both or make a choice. I will have to wait to see about Gore. Honestly, I am just not sure how I will feel, it all depends on how things play out. :shrug:

On the lighter side: My son ordered a bunch of items from the Obama web site. It arrived today and I'm dying to open it up to see what all he got. Can't do it, he's at work and I have to respect his mail privacy. It is hard sometimes to have scruples.

edited due to poor word choices?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Well, there's a long time before we have to decide
I hope that Clark decides to get in eventually. That would really make the race interesting.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
7. Very good analysis. Thank you. (nt)
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bcoylepa Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
8. great post
I too have read his book - and agree with most of what you are saying
it's interesting - I live in a very red part of PA - rural bradford cty- and we just placed our first Dem in Congress - Chris Carney -
I like Chris and agree with him on a lot of issues - but in no sense of the word is he a liberal - and I know that a liberal would not win in this area - I feel the same about presidential candidates
I do think Obama gets most of it and I do think that his ability to see both sides and articulate them on some issues will only help him in a general election
Obama's take on Bush was he is the kind of guy you could have a good conversation with at a barbecue if you kept the conversation to sports - I know lots of people like that - I have people like that in my own family - we learn to live next to each other and find what common ground we can- its the only thing we can do.
Obama has a long way to go - but his book was written well before he declared his candidacy - and he wrote it himself - impressive and reassuring on so many levels.
He deserves a serious look and listen.
thanks for the posst
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Thank you -- yes, I thought he wrote the book himself without being told that
It sounds a lot like him, and as you say, it is very well written -- except for the first chapter IMO.

I'll have no problem voting for him in the general election if he gets the nomination. But for the primaries, the way I feel now, I'd rather vote for someone like Feingold -- who fully recognizes the threat that the Bush administration poses to us and is willing to take the lead in being outspoken about it, without thought to the effect that will have on his political career IMO.
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. I appreciate your post
you make some great points. I share your concerns too, but for me the pros outweigh the cons. Fortunately, we have a very long year before the primaries start. I personally support Barack, because he is inspirational, progressive and electable. I know that last quality is somewhat controversial, but look at what the Right is doing. They are already throwing the mud, but guess what? Nothing is sticking.

I do not march in lockstep with the Democratic party nor do I march in lockstep with "typical" liberal values. I support Obama precisely because he does not either. He thinks, he reaons and he aims his criticisms at his own party and supporters when he feels it is warranted. Good. We can't improve as a party until we correct imperfections, right wrongs, and clarify our message. If the Democratic Party was so perfect why did we get trounced for the last 6 years? Surely liberal/progressive groups and people are deserving of criticism from time to time?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Thank you
I didn't mean to give the impression that I "march in lockstep" with the Democratic Party or "typical liberal values". That sounds like I don't think for myself. Rather, I call myself a liberal for the reasons that I discuss in this post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=779649
At the same time I believe I have an open mind about these things and am therefore flexible enough to change my mind about things if confronted with evidence that my ideas don't work.

I do believe however that liberals are defined more today by their core values than by ideas on how to promote those values.

Nor did I mean to imply that I feel that liberals or the Democratic Party are beyond criticism. I do, however, believe that many of the criticisms that Obama levels at liberals in his book are unwarranted -- and that's what I object to.

To clarify -- I do not and cannot in good conscience resent criticism. What I do object to is what I consider unwarranted criticism of liberals in general or of the Democratic Party, since unwarranted criticism, especially coming from a prominent politician within the Democratic Party, gives a free pass to the Republicans. And I believe that today's Republican Party is so bad for our country that anything that promotes it is very bad for the people of this country.

And I do feel that many of the criticisms that Obama has levelled against liberals and Democrats, as I discuss in my OP, have been unwarranted.

With regard to getting trounced over the last 6 years, that just is not the case. The two Presidential elections in those 6 years were very close, and there is a great amount of evidence to suggest that the Democrats would have won both elections if not for election fraud. And so have the Congressional elections been reasonable close.
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retread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
17. Have you had a chance to read the following?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. No, I hadn't read it
It talks a lot more about his personality than about his politics. It does, however, echo one thing that I said in this OP:

There are those who believe that for all his study, Obama has been too cautious on the big issues... since he arrived in the Senate, many of those who hoped Obama would become a great liberal champion have been disappointed. He has voted with conservatives on tort reform and industry-friendly provisions in the bankruptcy bill, and the troop-pullout bill he introduced in January was a late and unremarkable entry in the debate over Iraq."


If he wants to get votes in the Democratic primaries from people like me, he's going to have to explain those kinds of votes in a way that we can understand and relate to. Of course, he may not need votes from people like me.
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
18. I have just finished reading Obama's book and was intending
to put up a post. You beat me to it!

For me, I'm disturbed that he had nothing to say about the integrity of either the 2000 or 2004 elections, instead commenting that "Bush had won two elections." I believe that Al Gore was duly elected President in 2000 and that if it hadn't been for the efforts of Jeb Bush/Katharine Harris in suppressing Democratic votes, George wouldn't have gotten close enough for the Supreme Court to intervene and hand the election to Bushie boy. Mark Crispin Miller
has further documented how the suppression tactics from FL were spread across the country in 2004.

Obama also had nothing to say about the lack of serious investigation into how 9/11 happened. After reading several books about 9/11, I am convinced that
the truth has yet to come out about that day. I am also convinced
that another devastating attack of some sort could be made; no one has been held accountable for any lapses that contributed to 9/11.

Obama also has yet to flesh out any proposed solutions to many of the serious problems facing the country. I want to hear more from him.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-27-07 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yes, I agree with all that
I was disappointed to go to Obama's website and see that there is nothing there on election issues except the problem of voter intimidation/suppression and related issues. Nothing at all about the great susceptability of our black box electronic voting to massive fraud.

With regard to 9-11, yes I believe that needs to be investigated in much more depth. Unfortunately, it is considered one of those untouchable issues, so that even the most courageous of Democratic Congresspersons can't accuse the Bush administration of serious misconduct with regard to that.

I am just fed up with the lack of aggressiveness of our Congress, period. I think they should be moving full force to impeach and remove Bush and Cheney from office, and there is just too little movement on that score.

I think that these times call for someone like Feingold or Gore (to mention 2 non-candidates) who aren't afraid to say what needs to be said.
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