Who teaches Roman history best: Yale or Osama bin laden's madras?

Didn't Osama bin Laden once say that he knew al qaeda could not defeat America militarily, but that his goal was to break the U.S. financially? Afghanistan: Osama 1 Bush 0; Iraq: Osama 2 Bush 0; potential Iran: Osama 3 Bush O ....

Come on Barrack or Hillary, make the damn simple argument that these crazy, unending wars are bankrupting our country and that as long as Bush and his successor, McCain, i.e., "McWar Hound" keep rattling sabers in the middle east, oil prices will remain high. I don't even care if this argument is technically true. It is plausible, (and is likely correct).

We democrats cannot afford to wait until late August to start making this argument forcefully. By then, McWar Hound will have convinced the American herd that we are winning the war in Iraq, and hell, that Iran might as well be next.

Your superior, elitist contempt of your fellow citizens will convince no one of anything.

And it disgusted me.

7 months in Iraq fighting for millions of Americans that seems completely focused on shopping and avoiding taxes.

The OP makes a valid point. He is not preaching to the herd, he is posting on a message board frequented by political activists.

and considering what's been going on the past 7 years or so, seems to me they have pretty good reasons to think that....

Overextension is the death of all great world powers. They spend money on military outposts across their spheres of influence and domination when they should be paying down their debt and investing in the economy. Eventually, the economy, weighted down by neglect and high debt and heavy military spending, collapses inward on itself like a blackhole. Without a vibrant economy, no amount of large military spending is sustainable. Then, the empire loses control over its possessions as it can't afford to man the outposts anymore.

What is left is a crumbling shell of an empire.

Can we reverse the trend? Do we have enough power to rein in our government?

I don't expect America to be around forever, but I would have thought the Consitution, revolutionary document that it is, would have lasted longer than this. I think it still can, but we have to return to becoming engaged citizens.

The Late Roman Republic which lasted roughly another two centuries after the Early period was far more characterized by internal civil wars, power struggles, assassination, and corruption, culminating in the establishment of the Principate under the leadership of the emperors.

Regardless of what happens to the US in the next century or two, I think we can all take away the knowledge that it was a good run in the end. If the very notion of democracy was lost during the Dark Ages, it very well can be lost again.

and then move on....Why spend what few years I have here worrying about Bush, Iraq, economic growth, ranting about politics etc...

Just my thought...

Aurelius made during the Roman Empire (I think): to wit, nothing we do will make any difference in 200 years so no need to get particularly upset or worried at life's ups-and-downs.

of it with Bush and probably four more years with McWar Hound.

Aurelius was a wise man.

life itself. But will the politicians, most who have more than enough money, care that America as a whole, is bleeding resources as a result of the "war" on "terror?"