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Florida House votes to require ultrasound before all abortions

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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:30 AM
Original message
Florida House votes to require ultrasound before all abortions
Here we go.


Florida House votes to require ultrasound before all abortions

By Josh Hafenbrack | Tallahassee Bureau
12:03 AM EDT, April 3, 2008


TALLAHASSEE - The Florida House on Wednesday mounted what critics called a two-pronged assault on abortion rights, passing legislation that would require pregnant women to undergo ultrasound exams before getting abortions and effectively defining life at conception for criminal prosecutions.
Any woman seeking to terminate a pregnancy would be required to pay for an ultrasound procedure — and view the results unless she signed a waiver — before having the abortion, under a bill passed by the House largely along party lines.

The Republican-led chamber also endorsed a "fetal homicide" bill that would create a separate murder charge for anyone who caused a pregnancy to be terminated through an act of violence against a pregnant woman. It defines an "unborn child" as a fetus at any stage of development, beginning at conception.

.....

The House's ultrasound requirement (HB257) would require pregnant women to pay for the scans as part of their abortion procedures. Costs for the tests can range widely, but are often a few hundred dollars, according to expert testimony.
Ultrasound scans already are required for women seeking abortions in their second and third trimesters; the bill expands the requirement to include early-term pregnancies. .....
The emotionally charged debate prompted House Speaker Marco Rubio, R- West Miami, to warn groups of grade-school children watching from the gallery of the adult content.
The ultrasound bill passed on a 70-45 vote and now goes to the Senate, where it has yet to get a committee hearing. However, the anti-abortion effort has a powerful ally in Senate Majority Leader Dan Webster, R- Winter Garden, who has sponsored a companion bill and said Wednesday he assumes it will get a floor vote before the session adjourns May 2.

.....

If the "fetal homicide" bill passed the Senate and became law, anyone who caused a pregnancy to be terminated by assaulting or killing a woman could be prosecuted for murdering the "unborn child" — even if they didn't know the woman was pregnant.
The bill also would apply to drunken drivers, who could be charged with vehicular homicide for causing a pregnancy to be terminated in a car accident.
Under current law, a separate murder charge applies only if the fetus is considered viable, which is defined as "capable of meaningful life outside the womb through standard medical measures." That viable fetus standard is changed to "unborn child" at any stage of development.

"It elevates a fetus and an egg, frankly, to the status of an adult person," said Adrienne Kimmell, executive director of Florida's Planned Parenthood affiliates. "The purpose of this bill is to create tension with Roe vs. Wade. It's a chipping-away strategy we've seen for years now."

.....
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flor de jasmim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. It would be very interesting, if every time they had an abortion bill...
they had a corresponding bills for ADOPTION, SOCIAL WELFARE, EDUCATION, etc. etc.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. The problem is that they only want to "protect the unborn child"
After the baby is born, they could give a flying f**k.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. The problem is they only want to control women...
...and that is the crux of it.
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flor de jasmim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I agree with you and Hobbitt, but what's ironic is...
if we extrapolate from this, we will get the following situation:

a) fewer abortions of the poor (means MORE BABIES BORN TO THE POOR)
b) same number of abortions of the wealthy

I bet anything that if these MEN thought about it, they would probably "prefer" that fewer babies be born to the poor!! Ah, well, LOGIC ...
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. The need for power and control over women defies any logic...(n/t)
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I think it's perfectly logical
From an evolution stand point.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. And who the f*ck is going to pay for the ultrasound? Not only is outrageous that they want to
require and ultrasound, this is also pointedly discrimination against poor women.
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colinmom71 Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Actually, it won't make much of a cost difference...
The majority of out-patient clinics that offer abortion services *already* perform an ultrasound in order to confirm how far along the pregnancy is before the medically appropriate abortion method is determined and performed. For instance, if the woman is only 5 weeks along, she can elect to have either a vacuum suction surgical abortion or to use the RU-486 medical abortion regimine. But if the woman is significantly further along, an ultrasound will make sure that the safest method is performed by the clinic's physician.

Either way, the cost of the ultrasound is already considered into the overall cost of the abortion fees. Plus, most women's clinics that offer abortion services also offer sliding-scale pre-natal care and thus usually have an ultrasound machine and tech on staff for those services as well as to confirm gestation dates for abortions.

From what I've read on the issue, clinics that do ultrasounds to confirm the gestation timing usually keep the ultrasound on silent and turned away from the patient. The patient can request to see the ultrasound but it's not usually offered by the ultrasound tech.

Still, I see no valid reason to legally require ultrasounds and to require an OB patient to view it. It's not l like there are any women out there who are voluntarily seeking an abortion who don't understand that continuing a pregnancy leads to having a baby. Frankly I find it paternalistic and intellectually insulting to even insinuate that women don't understand the profound effect that pregnancy can have on their lives...
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. let me get this straight
They want to force women to pay hundreds of $$ for a medical procedure they don't need or want in order to choose to have a medical procedure that is completely legal and private?

You can barely see anything from a sonogram in the first 6-9 weeks of pregnancy and someone who has already decided to have an abortion will not be swayed by a grainy, blurry dot. All this will do is make it harder for poor women to afford the legal and private procedure.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. 5 weeks
I saw my ultrasound at 5 weeks (ruptured ectopic). There was nothing to see; no little head, little arms, legs, etc. Just a whole lot of blood and guts.

Any stage of development? Are they going to require every woman of childbearing age to take a pregnancy test/ultrasound if she is involved in a auto accident/assault? Maybe she conceived the night before and might have a FERTILIZED EGG!

What a STUPID state. Thankfully my daughters don't live here. Maybe they shouldn't even VISIT this horrible state.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
7. Florida has some of the most backward laws......
:argh:

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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
8. Hopefully, this will die in the Senate just like Traviesa's last anti-choice bill.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
11. Nice bill thought up by people who will NEVER face any type of pregnancy! I think it's time for a
bill that will carry a minimum 10 year prison sentence for male masturbation, since my 'religious' belief is all sperm carry human life.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
12. Sorry. Duplicate post for reasons unknown.
Edited on Thu Apr-03-08 09:06 AM by sinkingfeeling
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LeftinOH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
15. Look for the term "fetal homicide" to become more commonplace
as the choice battle continues.. they just keep getting more desperate.
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