Why can't we "resettle" the women in the polygamy compound the way we do political refugees?

Iknow there are big differences -- citizens vs. noncitizens -- but we have a system already in place, which could be modified for these women. When I was a Literacy Volunteer, I experieinced people from preliterate societies in war ravaged countries in Africa, women who had worn burquas and were victims of violence from Afghanistan, through an interfaith refugee agency. They were resettled in apartments and helped to live, work and raise their children in their new country. With their political asylum status they were given a lot of support to become self sufficient. Some had come from a society that didn't have even basic plumbing, much less bathrooms. Some did not have a written language and memorized everything.

It seems to me that if these women in Texas were given the opportunity to be reunited with their children and had a place to live, that with the help of perhaps some former sect members, they could rebuild their lives. Our nonprofit sector could help enormously.

An enormous tragedy befell these women. If they cannot go back to the compound, there must be another, noncoercive way that they can be helped. It was astonishing to me that the refugees I met could resettle in what must have been as alien to them as the moon and get on their feet. Surely, something similar could be offered here...

They believe their previous lives in the cult are part of God's plan, and that anything else means eternal damnation. Most refugees want a new life. These women probably don't currently want that, at least not yet. They need to go through some sort of deprogramming first, probably with the help of people who have already escaped the cult.

they all thought this was normal. Sad.

and passive, at least the older ones were. The younger ones caught on fast and learned English and got drivers licenses and jobs. The older ones were notused to making decisions on their own, but I was encouraged by their progress. The human spirit is awesome...some of them had experienced gruesome killing in their communities. I remember thinking "How many Americans could have seen what they saw and come out of it so bravely?"

So I have hope, even for these victims of brainwashing...

voluntarily accepted political asylum in a strange land, also.

It just seemed to me that if they couldn't go back to that abusive set up in the compound, they had to have SOME alternative available to them. On a humanitarian basis, the refugee resettling model is wonderful...

As it is, I think only private groups, like domestic abuse or sexual assualt non-profits are set up to help them.

Government kinda sucks in this arena, other than to fund private non-profits.

what a cutie!!!

He is a cute one.

many of the men will be in prison & many of them will flee the state. The women won't have a place
to go back to unless the state somehow manages to confiscate the property. This is a complicated situation.

the law considers the women guilty of abuse, too. I saw someone on CNN or somewhere yesterday saying those little girls' sexual abuse began at the ages of four or five, so the mothers are complicit if that's true. I would think that until the authorities figure out what harm came to those children and exactly who is responsible, that none of the parents will be getting those kids back.

been tried in the media at this point. On the one hand I can't relate to these people's lifestyle, religion, cult or whatever but on the other hand having your family ripped apart by the government because of the possibility that some else's child was abused in a massive group sounds like a Big Brother night mare to me.

I keep thinking about the Duke rape case and the prosecutorial abuse in that incident. I hope the government's case is solid, if it's not I suspect there will be a slew of lawsuits.

a clue to what has been transpiring in that prison camp.

Some have said that these folk aren't Mormons. They are Mormons that are following the
Book of Mormon which the LDS has distanced themselves from regarding Polygamy.

Men over 21 having sexual intercourse with 15 year old girls is against TX state Law. These men must be located & charged with Rape.

Polygamy is not the problem. Institutionalized child rape is the problem, along with a myriad of other issues covered in depth by Cerridwen.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3163212

Familiarize yourself with the concept of freedom from reproductive slavery and rape, and then get back to us.

http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/

They have a VERY helpful summary of the timeline, and the press releases do a good job of explaining what is going on and WHY.

It is NOT being tried in the media. There is a judge, and it is a legal action by the state in which the children's rights are the first consideration.

by the crazy DA who was running for re-election.

I think the reason it took the authorities so long was precisely because they wanted this case to be solid. While this sect seems to have some clout, they definitely have problems containing all of the people involved. Plus, the Jeffs conviction showed the way.

Hope I'm right on this. I wouldn't want to see this thing massively fall apart...

The women AND men will all be charged with rape and accessory to rape, or whatever. The women will be offered plea bargains in return for testifying against the men. The children, and their ability to remain with them, will be the inducement to cooperate with the state. The men will all go to prison for a very very long time. The women will have to submit to supervision, probation, counseling in the PROPER way to raise children. The kids will get to keep a parent, and learn that sexual enslavement is most definitely not God's will.

Some of the women seem young enough to turn their lives around. Their kids have a better shot at it.

I don't think this is insurmountable.

I wonder how much discretion could be allowed in this kind of situation. I don't know if there is any precedent in the law for "brainwashed" individuals...

I understand there is good reason to suspect that some horrific crimes may have occurred in that compound. I also understand that the creed of that religion is anthema to most of us. Even so, the government has no business deciding which religions are acceptable and which aren't. The separation of church and state cuts both ways. Rounding up a group of people, "deprogramming" them from their religion and taking their children without due process is a pretty dystopian vision. I'm all for throwing the book at any of these people that can be convicted of child abuse, but simply assuming they are all guilty because some almost certainly are doesn't sound very liberal or enlightened to me.

I also can't understand the appeal of rigid patriarchy (to men or women). However, these people are far from alone in following that aspect of fundamentalism. Do we start asking the government to relocate and reprogram every hard core christian woman who defers to her husband in all matters, should they be allowed to have children?

We can't just toss aside our civil rights when it gets tough, even when the alleged crimes make up want to puke and cry. If we do, they weren't rights, just favors granted by the mob. Let's hunt down any and all of the criminals in this case, try and help the victims, and not lose ourselves and our ideals in the process.

would have to be noncoercive. However, the law IS coercive when it comes to removing kids from abusive situations. There is no way around that.

I would ask how you would handle the situation, other than a "resettling"? Because that would be what it is, essentially. All I am saying is that there is a model here that we can build off of, one that is truly respectful of people, but one that could be modified for the situation at hand.

I'm not against such a program being offered to the women. I'm not even against what has happened so far, tho it does seem verging on being heavy handed and a bit over sensationalized. It was probably unavoidable to remove all the children and to keep them all from their mothers, but it can't/shouldn't be permanent without case-by-case legal process. Although the analogy isn't perfect, I wonder how many people here were advocating taking every child out of catholic households when the priest scandals 1st broke. Some parents had enabled the abuse, loathe to believe a priest could harm their child that way...

Anyway, I'm actually in agreement that huge resources should be brought in to help these people. I was really only sounding a caution to the people advocating we lynch 'em all and take their kids. It may turn out that is the appropriate course, but I think we need to know much more about what happened in there before we take such a drastic step.

in this case. TX DFPS has an excellent summary on their website:

http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/

Latest News on Eldorado
News Brief: Tuesday, April 15, 2008
Every step taken by CPS and the court has been done with the goal of doing what is best for the children, getting to the truth, and stopping abuse.

Every time the state is forced to remove children form an abusive situation people will become upset, but the rights of children come first. The 51 women who returned to the compound have been unable to protect these children from abuse in the past.

Since the investigation began at the FLDS compound, CPS has been careful to minimize the trauma for these children. But it was absolutely necessary to separate 57 women from the older children. Investigators will never learn the full truth as long as adults who encourage a code of silence are standing over these children’s shoulders.

During the separation it was firmly but gently explained that women without children or with older children must leave. They were informed of the legal situation and provided packets of information on the process and what would happen while the children are in state care. They were asked to remain calm for the sake of the children, but to gather up their belongings and leave the children's clothes and medicines behind.

51 of the women were returned to the compound and six did not wish to return and were taken to another location at their request.

It is recognized that some of the FLDS children in state care may not have parents at the FLDS compound. They may have already been separated from their families and it will take time to sort out who is really related to whom and whether they really have relatives at the compound.

Current Status of the children:
Children in the Coliseum and pavilion are adapting well to their new surroundings. They are playing kickball outside and have a larger play area inside where they can color, hula hoop and play games with their siblings and friends.
While we know this was a difficult move for these children, their spirits are high and there are many smiles.
About 400 women and children under the age of 5 are housed in the San Angelo Colliseum.
About 100 older children are in the adjacent Wells Fargo Pavilion, where they are being cared for by CPS staff and licensed children care providers.
About two dozen teenage boys are being housed in a licensed foster care facility outside the immediate area.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please explain whose civil rights have been violated - other than the children having their rights systematically violated by every adult in FLDS...........

If you read my post, you know I don't have a beef with separating the families to do an investigation. I was responding to the idea that the women all need to be reprogrammed and relocated and the kids all permanently taken away. If and when they can make a case against each individual woman, I would hope that every child is protected and every guilty woman kept from further harming their child. I really hope they track down every guilty man too. I have no tolerance for those who would harm children. I also have no tolerance for broad brush tar-and-feather parties.

very foundation is the sexual enslavement of females from the time they reach puberty. NO child should be in that environment. Ever.

And I don't know if even that would work in many cases. They've been raised to this abuse; they don't know anything else. Anything non-abusive is completely outside their comfort zone now, as sick as that is.

I agree that it's well worth the try. But I think they ought to be resettled in their homes, and every one of those men charged and convicted. Remove the perpetrators; leave the victims to something of the place they knew.

thanks for stepping forward with a constructive suggestion for HELPING these women and their children. It's refreshing to see someone with relevant experience come forward and suggest a solution that's been "field-tested" already.

WE often go into countries where we offer humanitarian aid to refugees from repressive, violent regimes. We have this situation here, on our own soil today. Why can we not respond as humanitarian people with our own citizens?