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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:42 PM
Original message
Lies to Children
No school system in this country will touch biblical archaeology with a 10-foot pole. Now, schools can’t cover everything, but some areas are just off limits. Especially those areas in which one of our major religions has been teaching a serious set of “lies to children.”

What in the old testament is corroborated by non-biblical sources? Parting of the Red Sea? The burning bush? The Babylonian exile? The history of the Kingdom’s of Israel and Judea? The list goes on. New Testament, too.

It’s not like that part of the world wasn’t interesting in those times. Cradle of civilization and all that, you know. Personally, I find the whole subject pretty fascinating, but not because I learned about it in school. I studied it on my own, much later.

I’ve been accused of making a big deal out of nothing in the past, and I can certainly see how I could be accused of that here. My problem is this: there’s a group of people who don’t want these things discussed outside of a religious setting, because they want to control how people think about them. Because of this, our public schools consider the very topic to be completely off limits. Many religionists would go ballistic if their historical ‘truths’ were examined in any way other than as revealed biblical knowledge - and at least the public schools aren’t teaching THAT stuff. So we all miss out on a big piece of history, and grow up into adults knowing only the lies for children.

I mean, if religions were so sure that they had the absolute truth, why would they be afraid to allow us to examine the real record? I know, I know, don’t get me started. But once again, inquiry and truth are the victims of small-minded fear, and this time it’s been done in such an insidious way that we hardly notice. Why can’t we pull that off for science?�

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/sgublog/?p=208
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. I can't, and won't dispute that point.
I often feel held hostage in my own classroom.

I teach a unit on "prehistory." Every year, there are parents who show up at Back To School Night armed with a list of pointed questions about what will be covered in "prehistory." I give a canned response, quoting state standards, and pass out copies. They are always disgruntled, realizing that they will have to take their battle beyond the classroom.

It's easier for a community to bully a classroom teacher, or a site admin, than it is to take on the district. Easier to take on the district than to take on the state.

It's also a lot safer, for those of us who need our jobs to stay afloat, to be as bland as possible with topics that can get us suspended while lawsuits are played out. That kind of thing has far-reaching consequences in a career.
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brer cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I'm not a teacher,
but I hear your pain.

Wow, the joy it would be to take Comparative Religion in an open fact-based, give-and-take environment. What a gift for our children to offer such rich history.

Maybe ... if they are if grad school. :-(
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. I'd love to see a comparative religion class
be required for high school graduation, myself.

I wish one had been available when I was in school, rather than waiting for years of life and independent study to lead me in that direction.
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LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's like reading the Letters to the Editor in Biblical Archaeology Review
Almost ever issue there is a good "cancel my subscription" letter from somebody irate that BAR published an article where the author used CE and BCE or questioned some aspect of the Bible based on excavations. Just this issue there was a letter from some guy who actually wrote that he had to know if BAR supported evolution because he had just gotten his first issue and had read an article on the Dead Sea that started our "Millions of years ago . . . " and if they did he would have to cancel his subscription because evolution was wrong and they were supposed to be Biblical and the earth was only 6,000 years old. The editor replied in one sentence: "You will probably be happier canceling your subscription." How sad that an interesting area of research is off limited. In the interests of full disclosure, it should be noted that I had a degree in Ancient Near Eastern History and Culture.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The scary thing is that the evidence is completely conclusive.
There is little or no evidence that ANY of the major biblical stories, up to and including the existence of Jesus himself, have any basis in fact. Yet we can't, as a society, seem to talk about those facts.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Considering that 75% of Americans
Are supposedly followers of Jesus, it's not surprising that no one wants to talk about the lack of evidence for the historical existence of the Christ.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. Actually, the Hebrew Scriptures has some reasonably accurate history
The kingdoms of Israel and Judah (Judea was a Roman province) are well documented in sources from around the region, including sources from Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Egypt, Greece and Rome. We have independent confirmation of the names of many of the Israeli and Judean kings and also, if memory serves, of the prophets Nehemiah and Ezra (who were leaders of the movement to repatriate Judeans after Persia had conquered Babylon.)

We know that Assyria conquered Israel around 720 BCE because there are stellae and other Assyrian memorials celebrating the victory. We know that Assyria, following the practice of the time, dispersed the previous population throughout their empire and imported other people; the idea was to eliminate distinctive cultures that could become rallying points of resistance. We know that the area that had once been Israel became known as Samaria.

We know that Babylon conquered Judea in 586 BCE because there are stellae and other Babylonian memorials celebrating that victory. We know that Babylon started to disperse the previous population and import other people, but internal and external conflicts left them to do very little. We have Babylonian sources showing Judeans holding positions of rank in the Babylonian court, and we know that when the Persian king Cyrus the Great conquered Babylon in 537 BCE, he gave all the Babylonian exiles, including the Judeans, permission to return to their native lands and rebuild on the condition that they remain vassal states of the Persian Empire.

So while much of the Hebrew Scriptures consists of legends and myth, there is a lot of (reasonably) accurate history as well. But I agree with your main point: history should be taught as history, so as to make it easier to discern the legends and myths.
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elizfeelinggreat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
8. Slightly off topic but the History Channel
always has shows on about the Bible or biblical places/events. It's amazing to me to see this and I can't watch them; they remind me too much of religious broadcasts.

I was hoping THC was an educational channel (in a broader sense) but it's turned out to be bible and MILITARY shows most of the time. ugh!

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LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Actually they aren't all bad
Many of the History Channel's programs on the Bible deal with the actual history and archaeology and leave out any proselytizing. I've watched a few and found them interesting. If you get History International, you might want to check out a program called The Naked Archaeologist. I don't always agree with Simcha Jacabovici's interpretations (ok I rarely agree) but he is darned interesting and so passionate in his interests. He's not an archaeologist, but rather a journalist with an interest in archaeology.
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