I'm thinking about buying an SUV

Really. I have a large family, and local dealers can't give them away. I'm looking at a used one to replace an aging minivan thats increasingly too small to handle my family and our various cargo needs.

I live very close to my job (less than 5 miles), and think the extra fuel charges would be negligible. We take a family trip once or twice a year, and the extra room would be fantastic.

Let the gnashing of teeth begin.

I think it's something like 30% larger at least. If it's cargo capacity and people moving capacity he is worried about, an SUV will have far less room than a comparable minivan.

Most new minivans aren't "mini" at all. In fact, most of them are huge compared to many of the new "crossover" SUV's on the road. They're big and boxy and block far more of the other drivers' view than an SUV does. It's that knee-jerk reaction to the term SUV again. An SUV can be small, you know. The term SUV does not only apply to Hummers and Escalades.

.

and I think less prone to rollovers. They also have more cargo space. And don't most get better gas mileage?

But you're right, our new minivan (Honda Odyssey) is MUCH larger than our old one (99 Isuzu Oasis, a Honda clone).

Disclaimer: I actually rolled our old minivan on a snowy road this winter - d'oh!

:popcorn:

Okay, go!

You should have listed which four-wheeled tool of Satan you were considering.

cue the flames and the music

Did you suddenly have six very massive children? Suburbans are not a good choice for any number of reasons. But I do agree that you'll probably be able to get a good deal on one right now.

.

I have three kids in car seats and two dogs. We need the room when we go out of town. We looked at several smaller options, but I don't think we could fit the kids, dogs, and all their gear into anything smaller. It's a pain in the ass to drive around town, especially on narrow streets, but everyone is safely stored in their seats/crates.

www.cartalk.com

A full sized conversion van would have considerably more room.. And I doubt they are flying off the lots any faster than SUV's are.

I would say go for it.

But that would have to be a really cheap SUV.

Then again, the reactionary elements are probably too busy bitching about the Kentucky Derby to notice you're buying an SUV.

Get the vehicle you like that best meets your needs - and if that's an SUV, so be it.

You could always just get a station wagon with a wicked roof rack for several of the kids. :-)


If there's any way, I'd look at a cheap commuter car for drives to work and an older large vehicle that fits your needs. There will certainly be people trying to sell theirs.

You could use the commuter for the grocery runs and work drives. I have a buddy whose family loves to camp. They have an F-150 for towing the trailer they use several times a year. And a beat up Daihatsu or something to use for everything else.

Union-made in the USA.
This is a full hybrid, unlike the GM "hybrids", and gets 29 mpg on the highway and sometimes better than that in the city. With 4 wheel drive. (The 2wd model is supposed to be a couple of MPG better).
Cleanest-running SUV you can buy. SULEV. (The Toyota SUV hybrids are only ULEV).

People who need an SUV should take a look at this one.

The Ford Escape Hybrid, the Mercury Mariner Hybrid and the Mazda Tribute Hybrid are all the same vehicle plus or minus some trim, built in the same factory in Kansas City.

Though it depends on how large your family is. You might need something the size of the Toyota Highlander Hybrid.

myself included.

The interior on the Escape is not that great, but it does get great mileage for an SUV (@35 city; 31 highway). I think the tank is about 12 gallons and that will last me about a week and a half to two weeks just going to work and driving around town.

The new Toyota Highlander is nicer but I don't think the mileage is as good. I think Toyota makes it in America, but I am not sure.

about a month ago... a used Ford Explorer. My husband drives it to work since round trip distance is about 4 or 5 miles for him. We wanted a second vehicle that could be useful for carry lots of stuff and possibly towing. We wanted to get a truck, but the trucks for sale were too expensive. Our other car is a Hyundai Accent, and I drive that one to work (50 miles round trip). Yes, I am pure evil. :evilgrin:

by offsetting it with increased local environmental activism and I DO mean aggressively proactive support across a full spectrum of responsible behaviors.

Assuming that Prius driver goes 60 miles round trip to work every day, and i only go 10.

Its not just the car; its how you use the car

Silly comparison. Once gas goes up to seven-or even ten-bucks a gallon you'll be very unhappy with that albatross.

Why not purchase an Outback, or two smaller cars (each getting more than 35 MPG- combined they won't be as bad as one SUV), then just rent a gas hog for family vacations? You'll save hugely on gas and you won't be contributing to climate change as horribly as you would with an SUV.

Getting two cars that get 35mpg each doesn't make much sense, total gas consumption wise.

Carly

Then you spend all the money you saved on gas.
:P

We have a full size sedan right now with a very large trunk.
When we travel, the trunk is maxed out, it is an art getting everything in that we need to take. The car has well over 100 thousand miles and as cars go, it has done us well.

But it we realize it is time to start looking for a replacement. Looking at the new cars in a similar class, none have the cargo space we require.

My wife says no way to minivans and we looked at the crossovers. Can you say station wagon?

I was hoping to see a better mileage with the hybrids that GM have and Chrysler has been projecting for late 08.

I don't know, not happy with the size of the cars and not happy with the efficiency or lack of with SUV's

What are we to do?

I have a rack system that will carry several hundred pounds and will clamp on to just about any car there is; even ones with no rain gutters.

I've carried everything up to 40' aluminum extension ladders, pressure washers or half a dozen full sheets of 3/4 ply on top of an Infiniti J30, a Nissan Altima and an 86 BMW 325e.. (the Bimmer is a pretty small car).

Get a cargo carrier to go on the roof rack and you can carry quite a bit of stuff without worrying about it getting wet.

Folding lightweight trailers are also good for carrying cargo with a smallish sedan.. You can get tow hitch mounts for most cars these days.. For under $800 you can get hitch, trailer, wiring and everything.

You can't tell me those things don't hurt gas mileage.

And getting things into and out of them? No thanks.

The few times a year they are on top of the car..

And the OP claimed it was *stuff* they had a problem with carrying.. Not people.

Mainly all girls but me in the house and I can't get them to pack less than 4 or 5 pairs of shoes a trip.

Also, we travel long distance 4 or more times a year. We live in Ohio with family in Florida, Iowa and Missouri. After traveling for family we don't have time to make a personal vacation that is just a vacation.
The 4 times just covers annual family visits, throw in a wedding or funeral or other important family event and the trips go through the roof. I put 20 thousand miles on my car last year. I need a car that rides nice on the highway where everyone is comfortable. These prices are killing us because we are still expected to make these trips.

It leaves a lot more room for people..

I had a two door VW Rabbit diesel quite a few years ago.. With a big roof rack we transported more Girl Scout cookies inside and on top of the car than a lot of other parents were getting into pickups and minivans. We sold one hell of a lot of Girl Scout cookies and transported our entire quota in one trip..

The little sucker would cruise at 70 mph and get about 50 mpg or more.. Had the coldest AC of any car I've ever owned too, it would turn the inside of the car into a meat locker in the middle of a Southern Summer..

A Nissan Altima is a reasonably priced car that is comfortable, decent on gas and has a reasonably sized interior for four adults. Nissan sold a crapload of them to car rental outfits so they are quite reasonable on the used market.

An Infiniti G20 is another smallish car that will carry a lot of people and stuff and get over 30 mpg.. I used to have no problem getting five 200 lb plus construction workers in mine although I wouldn't want to take a really long trip like that. The G20 has only a 2.0 L motor but has enough power to easily cruise 80 plus.

went on many a vacation with my best friend's family in one. Two adults, four teenagers and two large dogs to Canada and back! No troubles at all.


Aside from the insane fuel and environmental costs, most SUV drivers I know spend a lot of time WITHOUT their vehicles because they are in the shop!

My sister had one with her six kids. Love them but the stories they tell about road trips in those station wagons.

I prefer not to mar my children's travel experiences.

I think it was a Plymouth Suburban (not to be confused with the current Surburban behemoths). I remember a seat that could be folded out from the floor in the back. It faced rearward. I do recall taking some family vacations in it. A roofrack came standard with the wagon and of course all the luggage got placed up on top of the car. We all fit, because it had a bench seat up front (3 in the front, 3 in the back seat and 3 kids in the rear facing seat).

I don't know how my parents did it!! I would have been driven insane travelling with that many kids!!

That was the common term for that rear-facing seat.

Won't hurt gas much during steady driving; park it when you don't need the extra cargo capacity.

With a number of small cars..

Nissan Altima, Infiniti G20 and even a Suzuki Swift GT..

People tow trailers with motorcycles on a regular basis, doing it with even a small car is not difficult once you get used to it.

So selecting one suitable for the towing vehicle is not a problem. Even a 4 cyl economy car can pull a 75-100 cu ft trailer with a gross weight of around 400-500 lbs. An ex-neighbor towed an 18' flats boat locally (slow speeds, flat ground) behind a VW TDI Jetta wagon w/no problem. A 6 cylinder can pull much more of course. My father pulls a 22' sailboat (2000+ lbs gross) to maine and back each year behind a Chrysler T&C minivan, and gets 23 MPG. Brother pulls a 27' powerboat (8000+ lbs gross) to FL Keys and back behind a Ford diesel PU - gets similar mileage. small car= small trailer. Bigger car= bigger trailer. Do need a bit more motor and brakes if travelling through mountains, though. If OP's minivan is a V-6, he won't have any problem pulling an 8-10' cargo trailer anywhere.

Really.

Buy what you want.

:-)

Not if they can't all fit. There are ways to conserve. Shopping on the way home from work so it's not an extra trip. You know what I mean, clustering your errands. The expense of running it will have you saving. Keep it in good shape with clean air filters and properly inflated tires and try not to drive like the wind. It'll work out until the kids are grown. Maybe you can get a motor bike for getting back and forth to work if the climate permits.

Good luck!

And, my van has the added advantage of stowable seats, so it can function like a truck.

or do you think for yourself.

I doesn't matter what you drive it matters how much you drive. You can drive a SUV less than someone with a hybrid and still be more green.

I drive a SUV. I ride the "Clean Air Express" bus to work so my daily commute is about 1/2 mile to the bus and back. I am much more green than most DUers who have the audacity to knock someone for the car they drive.

See if you let this board decide how you are going to live your life you have really given up freedom and democracy. Those who constantly knock someone who do not meet their level of liberalness are very much like the freepers only 180 apart.

its that you are more lucky because you don't have to drive as much. If you are going to be "green", you would do it in the most efficient way possible. Efficiency is what green is about. Be it five miles or five hundred.

Lucky has nothing to do with it. I choose to ride rather than drive to save money.

Here is the logical argument. Burning a gallon of gas cause X amount of pollution. In what vehicle it is burned makes not difference. If you burn 20 gallons a week and I burn 1 gallon a week, in that week you put 20 times the pollution in the air as I have.

Your argument goes like this. I burn 1 gallon and go 18 miles. You burn 1 gallon and go 35 miles. You are more green than me. That is complete illogical bull shit since we both burned 1 gallon and both put the same amount of pollutants in the air.




It's hard when your irrational idealism is false isn't it?

If you had to travel the same 35 miles as X and you did in a less efficient manner because X could do it for a fraction of the the cost (or efficiency as you did) not the zero sum equation you are using. As for being lucky, yes some people do want to live close to their job however, just like any thing else there are only so many options for housing in any given area. So, yes it is a matter of "luck" that have a good location.

Do you drive your entire family around more than twice a year?

Do you have another vehicle for errands performed by one or two people?

and rec a full size van. You can yank the seats and haul all kinds of stuff, or just one seat and plenty of room left for the wdf (whole damn family) also you can CAMP in it if need be.

And if your kids are young and likely to be joining any sorts of sports teams you can haul the entire team around! Won't THAT be fun!?!?
:evilgrin:

Many of the crossover SUVs are built on a car platform with a car engine, but the body sits higher than a car would. Like a Nissan Murano, Infiniti FX, etc. But those may be too small for your needs.

I say get what you need. Don't drive excessively as a means of conserving.

:shrug:

We could use the tax revenue.

and Smart Cars don't make a lot of sense for anyone but solo commuters.

You'll probably use less gas than someone with an economy car and a huge commute.

Still, remember to make sure it eats regular and be really careful about checking out just how much you can fit into it while hauling luggage, since that will be one of its purposes.

I ended up with an econocar instead of a hybrid because I just couldn't justify the extra expense with the small amount of driving I do. People who commute across the city every day could easily justify the expense.

Just scrape those Stupid/Corrupt 04 stickers off it.

There is no shame in supporting your family.

I would be handicapped without my pickup. I hate the fuel economy, so I bought an old 28 mpg 1990 Buick to drive back and forth to work and for doing errands.

rather than an SUV.

this should win a duzy

If that's really the case, I say get an SUV. YOU deserve one!

Another option, though, is to get a fuel efficient 4 door car, and rent a bigger one for vacations, but only if you can afford it.

Some people think if they have three kids it's a large family. But maybe you have 10 kids.

Anyway, I want to be another one who points out that most vans have better passenger space than do SUVs. However, most sedans have better cargo space.

I drive a Honda Civic, and I tell you, its trunk is a two, maybe three body trunk. It has more space than an Accord. I can carry a LOT of stuff. But my kids are grown, and so I'm mostly driving just myself around.

The other thing I want to suggest is that you get whatever vehicle is most useful for your everyday needs, and rent a bigger something the two or three times a year you take a major family driving trip. How often do all of you normally climb into a car together? And it may be that two second-hand fuel-efficient vehicles will be more economical than one giant brand new gas hog. Definitely do a lot of math, including the cost of insurance before you visit a dealer.

normal car w good gas mileage.

the day i bought the van i could have cried. (just another stereotypical suburban mom)

if you need a suburban for all your kids, well...what can i say? i'm not in your position or situation.

Are they little ones who need to be fitted into boosters or whatever they're called? Or are they teenagers who are going to start driving on their own soon? Or are they just grade school age where they will be fighting in the back all day if you don't have separation room?

Toddlers? Vans are better. They have those strap things for easy seat install.
5-11 y/o? Depends, usually a livestock trailer will be better that in the same cab as you.;)
Teens? They don't want to be seen with you, no matter what you drive. They only love Daddy44 for the eventual car-key privileges. Who cares if they're cramped?

I get around 32MPG in my Hyundai Terracan (about the size of a Toyota Landcruiser).


http://www.autoweb.co.uk/car_revs/rev_new.asp?strTitleMajor=Hyundai%20Terracan

I will assume there are also some decent choices back in the U.S. as well as far as MPG.

As most people were saying here... Guilt should depend on your needs, how you drive the vehicle, etc.

Even the little SUVs get mediocre mpg from the research I did before buying.

Something like that Hyundai would sell like mad here in the States.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:evilgrin:

It doesn't use gas and burns cleaner than gas or diesel.

or the Toyota Highlander. They have a 3rd kid on the way and need the 3rd row seating.

in gas and diesel trim. I prefer diesel. Some have 200,000 miles, they are inexpensive to fix, and every mechanic in the world can fix them.

A diesel excursion would probably serve the same purpose. They are available in gas trim as well.

Buy what works for you.

my advice- if you're talking a large family like the one I grew up in, get TWO USED CARS- one big clunker vehicle for times when you must haul the entire bunch all at once, one little one in better shape for all the quick trips around the corner and for travel to that job less than five miles away.

the only times my parents ever had to haul all six of us at once were family trips from Syracuse to Buffalo and to Mass on Sundays.

The VW Passat station wagon is fairly good-sized and gets 21 mpg in the city, and 29 on the highway. Or the Honda Fit might be a good option. I understand the Pontiac Vibe has outstanding gas mileage and still offers a roomy interior.

I'd strongly suggest an old Mercedes diesel station wagon if diesel wasn't so expensive now. They have good gas mileage, great reliability, and you can pick one up cheap.

Look at these rides:

Audi A3


Subaru Wrx


My very own Mazdaspeed 3

The Limited Edition seats 7 and it gets 25 MPG city/27 MPG highway, which is excellent for an SUV as large as this one. A friend of my MIL's bought one a year or so ago and she loves it! She found it to be very versatile and comfortable vehicle.

You can read some pretty thorough info on this vehicle (and other hybrid SUV's) at Edmunds.com... http://www.edmunds.com/hybrid/index.html

Looked at a few models for my Dad's business- he runs a limo service and wanted one for taking groups of travelers to and from the airport. We didn't find any that had enough room in the third row for me, and I'm all of 5'2" and 115 lbs (think the size of your average seventh grader.) That made them useless for us, but not much better for a family.

Since the third row seats are so cramped, you can't put a car seat back there with much success, many models won't fit at all. Since there's generally no easy way to access that last seat, the kids have to be old enough to climb over the second seat and buckle themselves in, but not so big that they don't fit. Their utility is *highly* limited, and in most cases there's very little cargo room unless you pull the third row seat out, but in that case you have no more seating than the average family sedan.

Seriously, if you need a bigger vehicle for your family, you need a bigger vehicle for your family. But as somebody who does a lot of car shopping, I'd really suggest looking for a bigger minivan or even a full sized van, rather than a SUV. You need passenger capacity, not the ability to go off road or tow a boat. Buy appropriately, and you'll be much happier with your purchase in the long term.

are you telling us about your intended purchase because you think you'll stir up a huge flame fest or because you think you'll get good advice?

My brother has an Explorer and he gets recall notices every few months for some little thing or another that will cause the thing to blow up if not treated. Now he wants to get a Toyota Highlander.

Has over 105,000 miles and the only major problem he had with that car was the intake manifold cracking.

I had a '98 Ford Windstar I got rid of last summer and bought an '07 Matrix. The Windstar was a piece of shit!! Nothing but problems with it. My first car was a Toyota Corolla and I'm sold on them. I usually keep cars for a long time and drive them into the ground. Never regretted buying a Toyota. My 2nd car is a '94 Geo Prizm, which is basically a Corolla, especially the engine. I bought it new and it is still running great.

need them.

Sure I could remove the seats in our ford windstar and carry a full sheet of plywood, and our xterra won't haul a 2x4 inside but the X is loads of fun to tool around in. It's the wifes car and she lives 4 miles from home, so the 3mpg we lost aren't missed that much. I borrow our neighbors F350 diesel when I need to haul something or put he cargo carrier in the receiver. What I really want is a 5x8 trailer.

Face it Minivans are for soccer moms.

just the ignore option

One of those "crossover" utility vehicles. Gets 34 hwy/29 city. Not bad gas mileage. It will seat 5; the rear seats also fold down flat for extra cargo space. I've only got 3 in my family (Me, wife and a 15 y/o son) so it has worked out pretty good. I put an aftermarket roof rack on top and bought a Thule cargo carrier for vacations. Went down to Fla. Gulf Coast March with 4 of us (my son brought a friend), and the cargo carrier was an absolute necessity, since we were staying in a condo and had to bring some of our own stuff besides clothing. But the boys were both comfortable in the back seat with plenty of legroom. And both of them are taller than me or my wife. The Matrix has served me well so far. On weekend trips, the space behind the backseat is just fine. I've also hauled lumber from Lowe's using the roof rack, a blanket to cushion the top from scratches and bungee cording with no problems whatsoever. Also have hauled plants, mulch, topsoil and the like in the back with the seats down with no problems whatsoever.

The extra $800 or so spent on aftermarket roof rack and cargo carrier is well worth it and an absolute necessity for long vacations.

On edit: I also considered a used '04 Toyota RAV4 which has a bit more room, the price for a used one was the same as the price for a new '07 Matrix. But if you are considering used, the RAV4 may be a better choice for you for the room. Both are excellent choices, IMO. Research your choices with Consumer Reports. I've never bought a new/used car without consulting them first and they have never steered me wrong on Toyotas yet.

I don't know if you can swing $35,000-plus, but they get 25mpg and they've got more room in them than a Suburban has.

http://www.chevrolet.com/hybrid/ Why not?

Good for little else.