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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:40 PM
Original message
More on MHMR workers blasting CPS in FLDS case
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9238520

The Trib put the actual letters written by the MHMR caseworkers for your perusal.

dg
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Holy Acronyms Batman, what did they say?
:shrug:
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. First, the MHMR people have never been in the Eldorado commune.
So any comment they make about a loving home is already puffed from air.

Second, if these MHMR folks are as professional as others I've dealt with, they are morons and unethical to boot. Two examples:

A MHMR counselor identified herself as a young woman's mother in order for her to rent an apartment from us. She stabbed her boyfriend completely through his upper arm the next night, when we found out that the "mother" was really a caseworker who decided on her own that this young woman was ready to live out in the world with no further supervision.

We also had an older renter who was removed by MHMR from her apartment without notifying us or anyone else. They took her out because she was talking to her dog. They dropped her back off in front of her apartment 3 weeks later, where she discovered her dog had starved to death. They did not arrange for care for the dog, nor notify us they had taken her. This of course was great for her mental health. We do not live on premise, so we did not know she was gone for 3 weeks. She killed herself by cutting her own wrists two weeks later.

Now if these are the same kind of highly trained "professionals" that we enjoy here in west Texas, I'd not take their comments with a grain of salt. I wouldn't take them at all.

Lastly, no children are now at the location where all the "horrors" they observed occurred.

The problem, as usual, is the pay scale. Anyone with the requisite degree who is competent is already employed elsewhere.
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Try reading their statements before pontificating
These are statements written by 9 caseworkers who were at Fort Concho & the Colesium in San Angelo.

dg
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. i'm listening to "Escape" right now
by the fourth "wife" of the leader of the Eldorado compound.

i believe her. and now that i know there's a new book about how life really is in the FLDS, by the child whose rape led to the conviction of known Hitler admirer Warren Jeffs, i will be stopping by the bookstore tonight to pick it up.

if indeed these supposed MHMR "statements" have any basis in fact, it seems that these caseworkers don't really have an accurate reference point to make such statements. they seem to be assuming that the women and their "priesthood heads" have a basic respect for the rights and dignity of women and children as individuals.

more information will soon be forthcoming that will demonstrate how very urgent the need was to remove the children.

if law enforcement goes for the men (as is done in Utah and Colorado), NOTHING is accomplished. the ONLY way to save the children was to rescue them all. Texas did the right thing.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I like this quote"Youngsters plagued with diarrhea from unhealthy foods they usually did not eat"
Yup, highly trained professionals.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Read it again and get a clue.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Right.
All of these mental health workers, who are not members of FLDS, expressed varied degrees of concerns regarding how the mothers and children were treated.
And their stories support what FLDS members have been saying. Of course most people wouldn't believe those.
But of course you are going to dismiss all of it because it doesn't fit your viewpoint.
What else is new?



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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Thanks for trying, lizzy nt
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. other FLDS members
or ex-members, i should say, have something quite different to say.

the treatment the kids received from CPS is MUCH better than the treatment they received at the compound. beatings, food deprivation, sleep deprivation, separation of families, men telling children to pray for the death of their mother... thank goodness the children now have a chance to survive the dreadful abuse they have suffered.

i don't believe you or anyone who is complicit in the abuse performed by the FLDS.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. "Youngsters plagued with diarrhea from unhealthy foods they usually did not eat."???
Second sentence from your link. They got diarrhea from food they didn't eat? Wow. That convinces me that those MHMR workers should be listened to. With statements like that, who could doubt them?



"A boy estimated at age 3 walked along a row of cots asking for someone to rock him after he was separated from his mother, one employee wrote." Maybe if the mothers were cooperative in telling them which kids actually belonged to which women, they wouldn't have been separated? Or maybe CPS lied and just decided to have DNA testing done on the women/kids just because, maybe, they owned stock in the DNA testing company.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Your reading comprehension is abysmal.
On the ranch, the children did not eat processed junk food. When they were in the shelter, they got food they usually don't eat (on the ranch).
As a result, they got diarrhea.
Honestly, what is there not to understand?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Golly gee, you are right, I was wrong. I misread it, missed the "usually".Thanks for the correction
Edited on Wed May-14-08 12:56 AM by uppityperson
Thank you for being so polite in correcting me. A little bit of courtesy does go a long way. :hi: :pals:
No comment on the rest of the post or my articles in post #5?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. A few more recent articles, 2nd birth, "lost boys", book, mom not a minor
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9238077 (if 17, had first baby at 14 yrs)
An FLDS woman whose age is disputed by Texas officials gave birth in Austin around noon today to a son - and hours later her attorney won a ruling preventing authorities from moving her immediately to San Antonio.
Austin State District Judge Orlinda Naranjo granted a temporary restraining order to prevent the Texas Department of Family and Protective services from moving Louisa Jessop and her newborn to San Antonio this evening, according to Rod Parker, an FLDS spokesman and Salt Lake City attorney.
Louisa Bradshaw Jessop maintains she is 22, but the department has her classified as 17. She has two other children, ages 3 and 2, and is in state custody with them after an April 3 raid on her home, the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado. ...


http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/05/eldorado-the-lo.html
On Monday, I brought up the fact that there hasn't been a ton of attention paid to the "lost boys" at the Eldorado compound. They are the ones who, for one reason or another, can get excommunicated, like even for talking to girls. What happens to them is not always clear, but the Diversity Foundation has made a cause out of trying to help them get back on their feet. Here's what the Utah-based group has to report:

Beginning in 2002 the FLDS church began exiling young men between the ages of 14 and 23 for infractions that were in violation of church tenets. These infractions could be talking to a girl, wearing a short sleeved t-shirt, listening to music or watching television. . Both men and women lack an education that is chronologically correct. While living in the FLDS community they might receive an education until the eighth grade at which time they begin to work for wages that are given as tithe to the FLDS church.

This Slate article about the lost boys reports that 400-1,400 males have been thrown out of the church over the last decade. Closer to home, the numbers in this Eldorado case look like about 35 boys have been lost. Here's how I reached that conclusion, which UT Law prof Jack Sampson pointed out to me today:

In the Eldorado case, there's almost a 1-1 boy/girl ratio for children under 13. The figures are something like 196 boys and 197 girls. But for kids 14-17, you have 53 girls and 17 boys. Now, maybe there was a fluke in birthrates for those 14-17 year olds. But that would require a precipitious, off-the-cliff dropoff. More likely, those boys got the boot because they were either not mustering up or they were seen as competitors for the older men....


http://www.churchexecutive.com/news.asp?N_ID=1255
Although Texas officials have taken some criticism for removing hundreds of children from a religious compound, the Baptist agency caring for them has earned praise from the most important people: the children themselves.

Baptist Child and Family Services, an agency affiliated with the Baptist General Convention of Texas, was charged with caring for hundreds of children removed from the Fundamentalist Latter-Day Saints compound near Eldorado, Texas, in April. They coordinated the children’s care in nearby San Angelo for three weeks, after which 75 moved to the BCFS Youth Ranch near Luling.

"You’re nice," a 6-year-old girl announced last week as Nanci Gibbons, the agency’s executive vice president, walked past her on the ranch play ground.

(clip for copyright stuff)

"For the children to recognize that the folks in BCFS shirts are there to help and be nice is the best compliment we could get," BCFS chief executive Kevin Dinnin said. "Though there are significant differences, there is a common denominator between what we are doing with the FLDS children and what we did for Hurricane Katrina evacuees and victims of the Sri Lanka tsunami and what we're doing to help fight the international sex trafficking in Moldova -- we didn’t create the situation, but are working to meet the needs of those affected...


http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700225593,00.html
The former child bride whose testimony led to the conviction of Fundamentalist LDS Church leader Warren Jeffs is telling her story in a new book.

Elissa Wall's much anticipated autobiography, "Stolen Innocence," hit bookstore shelves on Tuesday, at a time when interest in the FLDS is at a national high because of the raid in Texas. The book was published by William Morrow, a division of HarperCollins.

Wall devotes most of the 431-page book to her upbringing in the FLDS Church and her marriage that led to the criminal charges being filed against Jeffs, spending the last third devoted to the high-profile trial and her views of it from the witness stand.

It was Wall's testimony that led to Jeffs' conviction on charges of rape as an accomplice for performing the marriage between the then-14-year-old girl and her 19-year-old cousin....


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIdMpRHjN4hpNKBhfYyAsR4DDo4QD90L033G3 (If she's not a minor, she needs to be treated as the other non-minors)
Texas child welfare officials conceded Tuesday that a newborn's mother, held in foster care as a minor after being removed from a polygamous sect's ranch, is an adult. A Child Protective Services attorney told state District Judge Barbara Walther that the mother of a boy born April 29 is not a minor, as CPS had claimed as justification for holding her.

The woman had been held along with more than 400 children taken last month from a west Texas ranch run by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. State officials say the children were endangered by underage and polygamous spiritual marriages.

"We were presented with credible evidence that this minor is, in fact, an adult," said CPS spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner. She declined to say what the evidence was or how old the woman is. According to FLDS records, the new mother, Pamela Jeffs, is 18.
(clip)
All the children are expected to get individual hearings starting May 19.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. huh, guess you don't care. oh well, tata for now.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. What Is the Role of the MHMR Workers?
Are they there as advocates?

Are they there to help CPS determine which men and women are which childrens' parents, and determine what exactly was going on in the compound?

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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. The workers were not there as advocates.
According to them, CPS told them to observe.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. I hope these
allegations are not true.
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