Reduce our fuel consumption - prices will never decline

I know we don't want to address it. But there is only one solution to high gas prices, use less and advocate for public transportation.

Our superpower status is over. This is China's century. But we can still live a very good life.

We must reduce our military budget in order to upgrade our infrastructure. We need public transportation and regional economies.

We can fix this. Lets start now. Please post replies with solutions on how to address the high price of gas.

The Saudis already told us there is no problem meeting demand for crude. Obviously the supply of post refined product is being manipulated so that the folks gambling on the futures market can walk away with a bundle. Enron part 2.

Yes, we do need to conserve as much as possible and explore alternatives that won't impact the food supply but the current exponential rise in the price of gasoline and heating oil is because the refiners are manipulating the end supply and partly because of the weak dollar.

But, and a nation of profit, we must understand OPEC's desire for profit as well. They have a product that everyone wants, and they want to use this product to generate profit.

The weak dollar hurts us too. As does commodity futures. But this stuff is all about producing profits. We can't stop corporations from seeking profits. We can reduce our consumption and look for solutions within our community.

Betcha the price drops by 30% overnight.

The North Slope of Alaska was Oil, it is to Anwar's West. To Anwar's east is Canadian Natural Gas fields. The reason for this appears to be is how far Wests the North American Ice Sheet went in the last Ice Age. The North American Ice Sheet did NOT start from the Arctic but from Continental parts of Newfoundland and Northern Quebec. It then expanded both West and south, but stop while short of Alaska that became a Tundra desert.

http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercNORTHAMERICA.html

This is important for Oil is changed into Natural Gas when it drops below 20,000 feet. It is believed that the Canadian Natural Gas fields were push down that far by the Glaciers, but the North Slope was to far West to have a Glacier over it. The question is how far west did ANY of the four ice sheet go? The last one did NOT seem to have gone that far, but it covered up previous expansions. Thus a question as to Anwar's content (Please note ANWAR has a possibility of being a dry hole, but any field can be that)..

Second, ANWAR at its height will NOT be the equal of the North Slope. It will supply the US six months of US oil usage over a 20 year period (i.e. All of the oil in ANWAR will be the equivalent of Six months of US oil Usage, but it will be extracted over a 20 year period). Furthermore it will take at least five years for ANWAR to come on line. Thus ANWAR is NOT a threat to today' high prices.

As to the Gulf, we have been drilling like made since 2000 in he Gulf of Mexico. It has improved the US production of Oil, but has NOT undone any of the Decline in 48 state production decline that set in about 1970. None of these fields are big enough to offset the production declines of the North Sea since 1999, Russia as of this year (Russia production increased from 2000 till 2007, but never came close to Soviet Production in the early 1980s from the same fields), or even the decline of Mexican production. The Shortage of oil is REAL, but no one wants to face the fact for it means cutting back oil usage, and that means a drastic rearranging of US society given our complete dependence on the Automobile for Transportation.

More on Mexican Oil Production Decline:
http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/7/12/10421/4972
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2247
http://www.energybulletin.net/4574.html
http://www.hubbertpeak.com/mx/

More on the Decline of Russian Oil Production:
http://gaussling.wordpress.com/2008/03/28/russian-oil-production-in-apparent-decline/
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3626
http://www.energybulletin.net/43184.html

North Sea Production Decline:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_oil
http://www.dailyreckoning.co.uk/commodities-trading/north-sea-oils-rapid-decline.html
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/North_Sea/Background.html

If not before. Saudi's oil production has DECLINED since 2006 (For details see:
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2325

http://www.iags.org/n0331043.htm

http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2007/04/more_speculatio.html

The Energy Information publish the following, it is hilarious:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Saudi_Arabia/Oil.html
It clearly shows the decline since 2005, but then accepts the the House of Saud's prediction for 2008 and afterward. This is the same House of Saud which said they would increase production over the last three years, as production DECLINED.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200710/oil-field-decline?ca=%2BxTnz5hIesC8Hkp9rwbG7Hb127frmOWSP%2Bzsc

My point is simple, the only people who say Saudi Arabia can increase production are relying on Saudi Arabia's word that it can. When experts look at actual production numbers and export numbers, those levels of production are NOT supported. The House of Saud has been lying and we are going to have to pay the costs of those lies.

A lot of the above rejection of Saudi Arabia's ability relies on Simmon's Calculations, here is his presentation of those unpleasant facts )(Warning PDF and heavy data download):
http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/files/Kuwait%20Talk.pdf

Walk or Ride a bike where practical. Take mass transportation. Get a scooter or motorcycle. Make sure your next car gets good economy. Takes steps to improve the fuel efficiency of your current vehicle.

1) Make sure your tires are properly inflated. Under inflated tires can be a significant drag on your fuel economy.

2) Empty that trunk- All that extra weight costs you at the pump

3) Try to use the brakes less- In other words roll to stops, rather than braking when you get to them

4) Slow down- Wind resistance goes up exponentially, so the faster you go on the highway the lower the economy

5) In the warmer months open the windows when you first get in the car, to let the hot air out. Then let close them and let the AC cool the car down. This will take some of the load off the AC (which drains your fuel economy). On the highway though, it's better to use the AC than to leave the windows open (despite what you might has seen on myth busters, unfortunately in that challenge their lack of an engineering background showed).

6) You can get a roughly 5% boost in you efficiency if you use the oil additive Tufoil http://www.tufoil.com / . I have been using the stuff for decades. It's the only additive that uses Teflon (this is hard stuff to work with, which is why others don't use it). I first started using it after a college professor talked about it, he knew the guy that invented the stuff. It's also good for extending the life of your engine.

7) Consider a hybrid for your next vehicle purchase (especially if you do a lot of city driving).

8) Don't idle- If you are going to idle for more than 2 minutes, shut off the car

9) Try to bunch your errands together- A warmed up engine is more efficient than a cold one. So try and do your driving errands all together so that you maximize the amount of time you are driving with a fully warmed up engine.


10) Consider walking, public transportation, motorcycle or bicycle where possible. All are more efficient alternatives. The more each of us save, the better off we all are.

11) Easy on the gas peddle. The faster you accelerate the more fuel you consume.

http://www.tufoil.com/
thank you kindly:toast:

...but this time put them UNDER OATH and jail them when they start lying through their teeth.

the bottom line is oil is valuable, and is not going to become less valuable over time.

Why should they cut the price or reduce their profit?

Every so often Sen Chuck Schumer stand in front of a gas station and calls for investigations. Once he stated he wanted to nationalize the gas industry.

their crimes are legion.

Influence peddling, graft, price gouging, environmental crimes, irrepairable and beyond count.
Did I mention Iraq?

Nationalize the oil industry.

If there was the time for that, it's now. We have a crumbling infrastructure, rising unemployment and a "Manhattan project" in developing alternative energy would generate jobs just like the WPA did. But we know what's standing in our way...big oil boys squatting in the white house and their corporate enablers who have enjoyed a 30-year run of "deregulation" and "open markets" and see what it's gotten us.

The most important thing for a Democratic administration is to get us out of that war for profit in Iraq...use that money to profit this country inside our own borders. Development of alternative fuels...no one will be the cure-all...will take a few years, but one that has to happen.

Regarding the current price, eventually consumption will drop...it's already happening. What's worse than the $4 a gallon is the nearly $5 for diesel...at that price it's going to all but shut down truck and rail traffic that will create massive shortages and cause all sorts of other price run-ups. Thus, there's a real need right now to rob "Peter" to pay Paul...a windfall profit tax on the oil companies and raising taxes and removing loopholes from the large corporations and their very wealthy owners.

The problem right now isn't the supply, it's the speculation going on. The prices we hear about a barrel is for current delivery on contracts people bought several weeks or months ago...just like buying a bushel of corn. Those who bought when it was $100 a barrel are now seeing a nice little profit. Tax 'em!!!!

Cheers...

"U.S. drivers pumped nearly 7 percent less gasoline for the week ending May 16 than they did the same week last year, Mastercard Advisors said this week."

"People have more control over gasoline. they are driving less and driving smarter," pollster John Zogby said by telephone.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1956058820080521?sp=true

The bad news
"More than 5 percent said they have taken on more personal debt to cope with higher energy costs, while a bit less than 5 percent said they are taking on debt to deal with higher food costs."

escaped their cages and infected deer herds, in what is now known as the "RED ZONE" 10,000 SQUARE MILES OF MAD DEER.. THEY SHARE SALT LICKS WITH CATTLE GRAZED ON PUBLIC LAND, the deer pass on the Prion Disease thru social licking

prions are essentially indestructible, cant sterilize them, not bleach, nothing, you can cremate infected animals to ash at 1800*F and infect healthy animals with the ashes. Prions can jump the Species barrier in 4 generations.. it is now infecting pigs.

http://www.maddeer.org check out the links

on NPR an independent scientist did tests on patients in Alzheimer's Wards and found at least 12% of patients actually had CJD. people die of it all the time. Bu$h's response to the last outbreak was to quit testing cows, from 1/1000 to 1/10,000.

:shrug:

:shrug:

sources, the price of oil will drop dramatically. How soon? That depends on how successful the American people are at taking control of the national energy policy from the oil, coal and nuke corporations. It can be done. But, it will take an infusion of smart and tough new Democratic officials supported my the majority of Americans.

China and India will fill that void with our old cars. They are growing their automobile driving middle class.

The solution, imho, is to get off the gas. Regional economies with solid infrastructure improvements for public transportation.

And we will try to harness any form of energy we can before that. You're not going to stop a process, globalization(standardizing every aspect of life for the efficient flow of production), with thousands of years of momentum behind it, as easy as that.

"Regional economies with solid infrastructure improvements for public transportation."

And those types of improvements require the destruction of regional economies, since diversity is inefficient, for the purposes of growth and production.

we need to cut our world cop military budget and invest that money in public transportation.
How fast we do this will correlate with our quality of life. The faster we make this change, the higher our quality of life will be.

I agree that we will go down this road kicking and screaming.

Somebody will. Right now, the US military is the only one capable of enforcing anything any international law comes up with. Then when we get someone like Cheney running the show, there is nobody to say no. I know that we're not doing too well in Iraq, but we were able to get in there in the first place, and we're not leaving. There was no cop to stop us.

corporations benefit from our superpower status.

Let the UN act as the face of world opinion.
Let regional coalitions (NATO, OPEC, African union, etc) take care of what the UN Security Council cannot.

:shrug:

a lot more than it ought or needs to, imho.

That sets goals to eliminate our need for foreign oil, and eventually eliminate our need for oil altogether. This is only going to be accomplished through government intervention.

if you are already willing to surrender to a criminal enemy there is nothing to be done, you will continue to surrender and surrender

i for one am not willing to wait to go places until some decades after a reliable interstate rail system can be established in this country

i for one am not willing to say, oh well, we are losers, china won the cold war, so let's sit on our hands and cry about it and be happy to live with less and be happy for our children and grandchildren to have no future

i am not willing to say, oh well, let's let these high prices continue to destroy the american economy, because people can't travel, people can't have any discretionary income, when they have to spend all on fuel and food

if i were the leader of this country, a vital national resource like oil and gas would not be sold for profit in the public market, it would be nationalized immediately and allocated wisely, the free market obviously can't set a fair price, AT THIS TIME THERE IS PLENTY OF OIL AND GAS, so there is no need for rationing/extortionate prices, there just needs to be a fair distribution and a reasonable plan for the future

i would have a manhattan project to develop alternate sources of energy for the long term

i would, as you say, develop infrastructure and public transportation

"regional economies" meaning going back to a world where people are ignorant of the world and never travel far from home unless they're rich or join the army, that can't happen and it shouldn't happen, and to me it's an obscene suggestion -- hang around with people who never travel for awhile, their ignorance is breath taking -- go to places that only have local/regional economies and the poverty is overwhelming, we live in a global world and those who would live in a miserable blinkered village are invariably those who have never even seen a village isolated from the world economy

but for the immediate emergency of this summer's high gas prices, i would immediately seize the assets of exxon mobil and the other oil companies because they are a criminal concern, manipulating the prices to an unjustified high level, i would put the ring leaders in jail, including bush and cheney who started a war to disrupt the middle east and send gas prices soaring in the first place

unfortunately i don't think what needs to be done will be done or even CAN be done, the chance of getting a leader into office who recognizes that oil and gas is a valuable resource that should be owned by the public/nation rather than by private share holders is exactly zero

and that's why it won't be china's century either, except for a small upper class of very wealthy chinese

ALL of our gov'ts are more concerned with protecting the wealth of the few rather than the ability to learn, move, and thrive of the many -- by "use less" you really mean that you will cheat the poor and the middle class of their freedom to move and their ability to educate themselves or even to fairly feed and fuel themselves, well, seems to me, we have a fairness issue there and volunteering to be one of the screwed is not going to change anything, in fact it's exactly what they want you to do, people who just give up and say "oh woe" are not exactly a threat to the status quo

by all means, give up and use less all you want, but all you're doing is kidding yourself that you're doing anything effective

Back of the napkin calculations suggest that at $10/gallon, transportation fuel consumes *all* of the discretionary income for the bottom half of the population. What is that? 48 months?

I have no plans to ever buy another new car.

conserving and going green, I guess we will learn the hard way.