Where are the gas lines??

In previous run-ups in gas prices, there were gas lines due to shortages of supplies. Basically a problem of supply and demand. But we see few gas lines driving up the prices of gasoline this time around? So why are the prices going up to exorbitant levels if it is not a question of supply and demand?

Much like Enron reincarnated, there is runaway speculation by the energy traders. They are trading with futures, which is probably closer to a monopoly than any other product in our market. All the debate about drilling in ANWAR or other places, in attempts to blame the high prices on the environmentalists, is nothing more than a diversion. It is not about finding "more oil". It is about manipulating the prices of the present inventory of oil supplies. It is not about supply and demand. It is about what will the market bear? We need an immediate investigation of why we have these high prices?

Wonder if we could get KO to ask it on air.

Of course, the economic collapse we're now experiencing would have been 25 years old...

But, no lines!!

So they're not spending more on repairing refineries, like their supporters are claiming.

They're just ripping off consumers while they still can.

this is simply BIG OIL extorting as much $$$ as it can before it's thrown out of the Govt. for another 30 yrs.

and the demand is that we're competing against other countries, hence the higher prices.

Isn't it? ::shrug:

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on their oil sales. Year after year, that becomes a lot of money. They control the spigot to make as much money as they can. When Saddam was around to threaten them with a big army and invasion, and when U.S. troops were massed on Saudi soil, they might have been willing to listen to a U.S. President's requests because that U.S. President was the only thing standing between them and Saddam. Unfortunately, a pathetic Chimp eliminated Saddam and also removed any influence the U.S. could have on them.

This means that almost 40% of the oil is from here and that 40% of the gouging is being done by homegrown profiteers. We import, according to the interactive map (in the excerpt at the above link), only 14.8% of our oil from Saudi Arabia. Yeah, Saudi Arabia is definitely getting a lot of money but American greed still tops even them. We're #1! We're #1!


And once again, Bush has made sure that anything standing between us protection from the US oil companies has been rendered moot. fwiw, Iraq accounted for 4.8% of our oil imports in 2007 (according to the Center for American Progress).

there was a dramatic supply shock as middle easter producers cut production over US policy toward Israel. This created a sudden shortage, although by artificial means.

This year there is a more gradual trend in which prices are rising to match changes in demand. I do not believe production has been cut.

OPEC embargo but also the wellhead price caps

It is about supply and demand. And demand destruction by pricing. All normal. The world production has been flat for over three years at about 85 million barrels a day. Demand from India, China, and other growing economies are increasing by 10% a year. If anyone could increase production they would at $130+ a barrel. They can't. Sure the speculators are in there. Because they realize that oil is going up and they want a piece of the action. It's free markets at work. Get a bike is my advise. Bob

get it straight! The dollar is almost as cheap as toilet paper now.

At least 25% of the problem, but there is more. There is price manipulation by the energy traders, just like Enron, except on a larger scale.

- war in iraq, keeping the 2nd largest oil producer offline is probably the biggest factor.
- the decline in the dollar is also a big factor.
- too few refineries is a popular right-wing excuse, but there is some truth to it.
- huge demand from booming countries such as india and china (booming in part because of the previously strong dollar, leading to major offshoring and huge importing).
- opec deliberately limiting supply.
- alternative investments suck because of recession and inflation concerns, so money is pouring into commodities as that's just about the only thing going up these days.


i'm actually not sure the staggering price of $133/bbl is completely unreasonable given everything that's going on. that said, it's absolutely despicable that we don't have a president interested in doing anything to being oil prices down. in fact, until very recently, he was BUYING oil to fill the strategic reserve, driving the price up even more!

eventually some of the many legs under the stool will give out, and prices will come back down somewhat, though $30/bbl is clearly a thing of the past.

thank you, georgie-boy!

(i posted this reply in a similar thread about high oil prices)

I have read that the oil companies have shut down some refineries in order to keep the price of gasoline and oil products from shrinking? If that is true, isn't that a manipulation of the market?

yes, they have taken some refineries offline but refineries need to be taken offline periodically for maintenance/expansion/etc.
there were some refineries offline due to katrina as well.

is there some manipulation involved? possibly, i'm not in a position to know. i do know that too few competitors in any industry leads to higher than necessary prices.

that said, there are MANY forces pushing oil prices up, and very little pushing oil prices down.


i hear consumers complaining to high hell, but i don't hear consumers trading in their hummers for hybrids.

"... there were gas lines due to shortages of supplies."

There's no shortage now.

are speculating on the price of oil in 2016 being $140 per barrel? They are "speculating". Not an accurate way to deal with actual supply and demand issues.

is not the whole world, oil is globally traded commodity and demand is rising fast in the emerging economies - while supply is stagnant (= peak plateau). Global demand surpassing global supply + lot of loose financial capital -> exponentially rising prices -> demand destruction taking place among the poorest of the poor, 3rd world countries that cannot afford oil anymore - first. But don't worry, you will see gas lines in US too sooner or later (probably sooner).

Lot of denial on this thread :-)

They know that there may be rules made in the future...rules they may have to actually adhere to. Taxes on corps and their honchos are probably not going DOWN any time soon, right? So, grab for all the gusto you can, because the end of GW's term is the last FREE FOR ALL on the horizon.

is changing the way the oil exchanges work. In the Southwest US electricity is traded on three different exchanges, short, medium and long term trades. Electric Cos can anticipate future electric needs and make their purchases early on the long term exchange, at a much lower rate than the spot exchange. Overall this type of trading evens out the spikes in pricing.

There's only a few of them left in our city.

If you don't want to wait in line you have to pay more.

90% of Denver's stations are at $3.79/gal. (I know, pretty cheap compared to much of the country.) No lines at any of those stations. But today I had to wait in a line for 5 minutes to buy gas at $3.67, and I'm sure it would have been longer if I hadn't been able to get to that station mid-morning when most people were at work, not out buying gas.

Did you know that 30-60% of the oil price increase is due to speculative trading, nothing to do with supply and demand. Plain thievery.