Just sayin'... I am pro-American, pro-worker

LuckyTheDog

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Tue Jun-03-08 12:42 PM
Original message

Just sayin'... I am pro-American, pro-worker

Edited on Tue Jun-03-08 12:47 PM by LuckyTheDog

I am never gleeful when I hear that people are losing good jobs. I never cheer for companies that move production overseas. And I don’t think the ongoing destruction of the working middle class is a good thing. I think those who root against the working men and women of America are unpatriotic in a very profound way.

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Hydra

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Tue Jun-03-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message

1. How about when the middle class says

That my disabled relative is dead weight and mooching off their hard work?

The working class and the few real middle class people have a HUGE problem with the "poor" class, rather than seeing all of us in this together.

Besides, the "patriotism" I've seen in the last few years is rather hollow- all bluster and no action. You can keep it.

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LuckyTheDog

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Tue Jun-03-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #1

2. I have never heard

"The middle class" mention your relative.

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Hydra

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Tue Jun-03-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #2

4. Sure you have

Whenever they mention people who shouldn't have welfare...but ignore it when Oil companies get billions in handouts. Or when they talk about how someone should get a job, when the person already has 3.

Nowhere is the myth of a "Fair America" more deeply ingrained than in the well off working class or middle class person.

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LuckyTheDog

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Tue Jun-03-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #4

15. You have a really broad brush

It makes it hard to paint an accurate picture.

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Hydra

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Wed Jun-04-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #15

19. And you're dodging my point because you don't want to acknowledge my point

Almost every working to middle class person I've ever interacted with adhered strictly to the "This is the land of opportunity" myth, blaming people who weren't doing well for their situation. This includes my grandparents, who should have known better, having been union participants.

I have no sympathy for people who will not see the truth until someone offshores their job.

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LuckyTheDog

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Wed Jun-04-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #19

21. The people you know

Are not the same as the people I know.

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bryant69

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Tue Jun-03-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #1

3. Kind of a Non-sequiter

But what kind of action do you want to see? Are you talking about a revolution?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

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Hydra

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Tue Jun-03-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #3

7. I'm not allowed to talk about that here

But consider this- where in our nation myth was torture EVER tolerated? What about a President and VP claiming to be above the law successfully? What about sending soldiers to die for oil?

I'm looking for SOME kind of solidarity...but it seems we are not so great a nation as we thought.

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bryant69

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Tue Jun-03-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #7

8. Our Nation Myth?

As for President and Vice PResident claiming to be above the law - Nixon did that. Sending soldiers to die for oil? Well some people would say that happened in the first gulf war as well, and others would claim that our soldiers who died in the Spanish American and the Mexican American war died for just as dubious a reasons. Hell we got Texas out of the Mexican American War and they dig up a ton of oil from there these days. Southern California too.

Bryant

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Hydra

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Tue Jun-03-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #8

9. Well, I guess you have inadvertantly supported my current stance

We aren't a nation that disapproves, so why should we rise up and do something about it.

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bryant69

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Tue Jun-03-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #9

10. Well it depends on whether that is the whole story

And whether or not overthrowing the government would really improve things.

This election is likely to see a flawed but good Black man made President largely because the nation is so tired of the Bush approach.

Bryant

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Hydra

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Tue Jun-03-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #10

12. Diebold

Edited on Tue Jun-03-08 03:24 PM by Hydra

And voter caging.

I truly believe that anything else is better than what we have- didn't we think the same thing when the wall fell in Berlin? Or was that different because it wasn't our gov't crumbling?

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WillowTree

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Tue Jun-03-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #8

16. You really need to re-check your history.

The US didn't ".... Texas out of the Mexican American War....".

In the 1820s and early 1830s, the Mexican government encouraged Americans to come to settle in their largely unpopulated Northern province of Texas as a means of dealing with their "Indian problem". Problem was, the settlers were taxed heavily by that same Mexican government and got little in return. Therefore, the Texans fought a war of independence against Mexico which they won after trouncing Santa Ana's army and taking him prisoner at San Jacinto in early 1836.

Thereafter, Texas was in independent republic for nine full years, all the while fighting border battles with Mexico which violated the 1836 peace treaty at every opportunity. Ultimately, Texas sought annexation to the US, which was approved by Congress and granted in 1845. The Mexican-American war didn't begin until the next year.

At least part of the hostilities that led up to the war had to do with Mexico's resentment of our annexation of Texas, but Texas hadn't been under Mexican rule for ten years when it started.

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bryant69

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Wed Jun-04-08 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #16

17. That's one version of the story I suppose. n/t

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zorahopkins

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Tue Jun-03-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #7

11. Torture Tolerated In US History

"where in our nation myth was torture EVER tolerated?"

You must not know much about US history.

Torture was the official policy and was not only tolerated, but encouraged, from about 1609 to 1863.

Slavery was the worst form of torture.

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Hydra

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Tue Jun-03-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #11

13. Not history- Myth

When did we ever say "I want to be like the Soviet Union under Stalin. Yeah, that would be a great day."

History tends to get whitewashed- and slavery didn't end in 1863. Most businessmen know how much more profitable it is to make the slave pay his own way- wage slavery, so to speak.

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Freddie Stubbs

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Tue Jun-03-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #1

5. Most people are don't have a problem with helping those who have a real disability with makes them

to work.

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Hydra

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Tue Jun-03-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #5

6. Really?

Then why was my relative denied workman's comp for the incident that disabled them? Why did the local Workforce services accuse me of gaming the system when I asked them to follow the rules regarding foodstamps for my relative?

Why were her peers accusing her of lying about her condition, and pushing her to "get back to work"?

The window dressing looks nice, but when it comes to action, sorely lacking if not truly hostile response from the mentioned groups.

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LuckyTheDog

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Tue Jun-03-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #1

14. I have to say

I never thought it would be controversial among my fellow Democrats to say that people who put in a good day's work should get a good wage and that the existence of the middle class should be defended.

I would think that such ideas would be controversial only among the anti-labor, anti-union, flat-world globalist conservatives most Democrats despise.

Support for maintaining the middle class in no way implies a belief that disabled people should get the shaft. On the contrary. Maintaining healthy middle class makes for a stronger America which is better able to maintain a decent safety social net.

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guitar man

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Wed Jun-04-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #1

18. stereotype much?

:eyes:

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Hydra

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Wed Jun-04-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #18

20. haha

If only.

"99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name"

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