Is there a plan by Dems to stop the rethugs from stealing

the 2008 election?..

Some of the biggest things specifically come to my mind:

1. purge lists....

2. caging lists

3. faulty machines

4. Not enough machines in urban areas

5. unverifiable machines.

All the above tactics above cost us the last 2 elections... millions of votes
were stolen.

I would hope by now our leaders have put a plan/team together to try and
prevent this shit from happening again !....

But WHY do I feel as though they've done nothing????

They have had well over a year now to fix these problems, but have no done so.... It is a very definite possibility that this election could be stolen.

purging lists......this cost us big.... we lost 20,00 votes in Florida alone in 2000 !

in our respective states? Don't we have some responsibility in ensuring our right to vote, and demanding that our state counts our votes accurately?

state. Our Democratic elected officials need to get the ball moving though IMO....

There is no accountability in this country.

Blaming the Democrats helps nothing- WE are the Democratic party. The current politicians are just playing good cop bad cop but they are all on the same team. WE need to take back our party, but how do we throw the bastards out if they are stealing elections for their enablers?

For that matter, just what is a 'leader' anyway?

The key word in your quite reasonable post is in the last line. You ask why you feel like 'they' have done nothing. Well, if 'they' won't then I guess its up to you.

Our DEM ELECTED OFFICIALS

I am not one!!

which protects our right to a fair vote.

I have been hearing this excuse frequently- don't wait for the leaders, do it yourself...even for Impeachment.

Well they have the power to do something, we don't. We have demanded that they uphold their oath of office and hold this administration accountable- they ignore us. Well we can't do it alone! 'So vote them out' we hear. They are stealing the elections which is why they feel they can ignore US. We are in a catch 22 here but clearly something needs to be done.

that have legislated paper ballots and standard automatic audits after each and every election...all by themselves. There are 22 states that have DRE's with no paper ballot, so they can't have a recount if they wanted to. The rest of us either have a hodge-podge of voting systems, or Optical Scan Ballots with computerized tabulators, but do not even check to see if the tabulations are correct, unless..a candidate asks for a recount..and pays for it. The way voting machines are alloted in our states, is up to our state. There is no way the federal government is going to fix any of this. Russ Feingold submitted a bill to allow states to voluntarily put simple security measures in place for November, at the cost of the federal government..but, of course..nothing happened. The worst part of this coming election is the computerized registrations. God only knows how that will not work out.

about it either!!!! I live in Ga. and I've contacted our Sec. of State about the 100% electronic voting machines and the lack of a recount feature, but have been repeatedly been blown off with the "there have not been any problems" statement. If anyone has any suggestions for forcing the issue, let me know and I'll do it!

our state has optical scan but with no mandatory audit. When I first called my Secretary of State they had no idea what I was talking about. I emailed them some studies done about electronic tabulators, but to no avail. It's time for LTTE's, and a concerted, and relentless calling campaign to our SOS's. If we the people don't do this, we will suffer the consequences.
Link to voting systems by county, including link to email SOS:
http://www.verifiedvoting.org/verifier/

http://www.verifiedvoting.org/index.php

The pushback on all those fronts has been mild, not a united party leadership effort and headed to courts or legislatures too late for 2008- as per GOP desires and plans.

I presume an overlook at the "embattled" DRE scene shows a net increase in use of those machines and inadequate protections even where "won" and little settled in the accountability, audit or tabulation arena. I presume voter ID headed to the high courts is still on track and around this the embattled DOJ still soldiers on for Bush for all those associated suppression schemes. That is yet the biggest area for some legal hope, that voter ID and the schemes will be gutted and the DOJ removed from its interfering role.

Preparing to challenge and expose AFTER the fact is extremely less hopeful and discouraging if the party of positive hope wishes to ignore a chunk of stolen mandate even in a victory. How many of us are certain there will be a basic commitment to reform this criminal mess after victory? Too late, too theoretical. And will the third sacrifice of a real tally mean that the "scandal" will propel reform?
A landslide and pushback on cheating might forestall the mom and pop small fraud that is so extraordinarily rife behind the high tech scene. Taking names means something if the DOJ is back in real action under the Dems. But, like the ME wars, this is something the party leadership is just not confrontational enough with to have a decisive effect at all.

In the balance fraud is more protected, more likely to be overlooked even after a victory and the consequences small for the perpetrators. Meeting the planned fraud itself can be done with paper ballots, an army of observers, insisting on the full counting of provisional ballots before certification regardless of projected outcomes, another bunch of poll lawyers I suppose with better experience than 2004 and voter outreach to deliver their protected vote and not just send them up in front of rigged fraud.

You might as well taking advice from Brad or Palast than anything the party as such has to offer- or join them in kicking party butt to get off the fence.

Whether they will or not is the question. It's a matter of reading entrails. What would be most advantageous to the global corporate predators who rule over us, at this point? Probably they don't want a big citizen revolt against their election theft machines. Those have important future uses. Too obvious a steal will imperil their "trade secret" code voting machines. And they probably don't want a rebellious American population sharpening our pitchforks and organizing American Revolution II--the revolt against the Corporate Rulers. So, my guess is, they will let Obama win, but seriously shave his mandate (turn a landslide into a close voter), give him a difficult, "Blue Dog" Congress, and hamper him in other ways--perhaps inducing Great Depression II (put it on his head, not the Pukes), continued psyops in the corporate media, and who knows what else they can do? (Money and arms--and psyops--are in place to start an oil war in South America, for instance.)

The basic facts of their capability are these: Virtually all the votes in the country are now 'counted' by three rightwing Bushite corporations, using 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, with virtually no audit/recount controls. Many states have ZERO audit--whether because that have no paper trail at all (nothing TO recount), or they don't count ANY of the paper ballots (except in the unusual circumstances of a recount--which is very difficult and expensive to obtain--and is often just a 3% recount). And even the best of states only do a 1% audit (automatic recount)--extremely inadequate in a 'TRADE SECRET' CODE system.

By contrast, Venezuela uses electronic voting, but they use OPEN SOURCE CODE--code that anyone may review--and they handcount a whopping 55% of the votes as a check on machine fraud.

We have what can only be described as a fraudulent SYSTEM. It is INHERENTLY fraudulent. It is fraudulent going in. "Trade secret vote counting violates the fundamental premise of voting, and democracy, so completely, that it cannot be called democracy. It is a CRAP SHOOT. Who will be Diebolded into office? Who the hell knows? We have NO WAY OF KNOWING.

That said, I do think that the Corporate Rulers are worried about us. We are potentially the most powerful progressive force on earth. The American People, unleashed, could well bring Corporate Rule to an end. And they've certainly given us reason to--or at the least, to start putting some serious controls on U.S.-based multinationals and war profiteers.

A U.S. national election is a complex affair. The voting machines themselves are a complex business--different in every state, and often from county to county, rife with acronyms, needing technical expertise to understand, and often quite bewildering to ordinary citizens--but they are only one factor--although a very important one. We can outvote the machines--produce such a landslide that the corps just aren't prepared enough (can't get enough machines coded, or with the right formulas, to reverse a landslide), or don't want to risk their election theft capability by reversing a landslide. It's harder to steal it for a losing candidate (poor pre-election polls); easier in a truly close race. So money and campaign strategy DO matter. I think you can figure--based on past elections--that we're working with a 5% to 10% handicap, generally--in favor of Pukes, warmongers and corporatists. There is also the corporate media monopoly factor. They write the plausible narratives for stolen elections, and help prevent recounts, questions and rebellions. They also sway votes with imagery, psyops, lies and propaganda.

The Obama campaign, and its wonderful citizen activists--and Obama himself--were remarkably skillful at overcoming some of these handicaps during the nomination process. He got his first edge in the caucuses--which are NOT counted by Diebold and brethren--and used the 50-state strategy to advantage. Aside from that, I don't know, and no one knows, what happened. Most of the votes were counted by Diebold & brethren, with virtually no audit/recount controls. Did these corps want it to be a tight, bitter race--pitting two of the Dems' major voting groups against each other--blacks vs. women? That fits with the corporate news narrative. Did they favor one over the other? Did they care who won? Did they let it just play out--holding their power in reserve for November? Did they ignore the Dem prez race, and concentrate instead on getting war/corporate Dems nominated for Congress--so that the coming Dem sweep wouldn't be an anti-war, anti-corporate sweep? This would fit with a corporate strategy of letting Obama win, but hampering his administration (as to ending the war, and reform). Who knows? We can't know. All we can do is be as vigilant as possible, and work for the long-term restoration of transparent vote counting--which is something we can still accomplish, in local/state jurisdictions--with a lot of citizen effort--whatever happens in November.

One worry is that there are no caucuses in November. It's a straight Diebold & brethren-counted vote. Other worries, of course, include voter "caging" lists (most often used against the poor and against the military), and a host of other election theft techniques developed by the Pukes over eight years of rampant power, and with a Dept. of Justice notorious for failure to enforce the Voting Rights Act, and political prosecution favoring Pukes. The political climate has certainly changed. Some of this Pukism has been investigated and exposed. Some state/local election reform movements have at least achieved a paper ballot backup (even if isn't counted--or is only 1% counted--it is something of a preventative), and have furthermore created more vigilance and oversight--often in difficult battles with corrupt election officials. I don't think we should count on a shaved-Obama mandate being the Corporate Ruler strategy, although I think it's probable. We need to fight like hell for a change in government, and produce a landslide to try to insure it. We can't count on ANYTHING.

I also don't think Obama intends real serious reform--although someone pointed out to me, the other day, that neither did FDR, when he first ran for and won the presidency. Obama has a "win/win" corporate P.R. line. In truth, the people can't win with Corporations--not these monster Corporations we have now. You have to pull their corporate charters, dismantle them and seize their assets for the common good--at least the worst of them. Put them in their place. Re-assert the sovereignty of the People. As FDR later aid, "Organized money hates me--and I welcome their hatred." That's not Obama--at least not from what I can see.

The struggle to reform our country and create a better country is going to be long and hard, and electing Obama will more than likely help, although that is not the end of it, by any means. We must learn to think beyond the next election. And we really, really, REALLY must attend to the machinery of voting and take it back from private "organized money" interests.

VERY stern.
:eyes:
(I don't know what they are actually going to do, but based on past performance my best guess is that they will do nothing)

They probably just post them on the net then laugh their asses off.

lest the sheeple wake up. We should attack these pillars relentlessly, the Rethugs will have to back off or risk exposure. Rather than a true democracy we now live in a managed democracy (or we have as much democracy as our rulers will allow) IMO. The lie pillars are 1. we have a free media not a government controlled propaganda ministry, 2. we have true opposition parties, and 3. voting truly counts. Now our rulers can't allow the masses to wake up to the truth. Thus voting really counts only if the polls are overwhelming. They didn't dare steal the 2006 elections, like they did the 2000 presidential, the 2002 congressional, the CA gubernatorial race, and the 2004 presidential race. If races are close to 50-50 or if our fraudulent media (including many polling outfits) can persuade the public that it is 50-50, then they will steal the election without any problem. Much of the DLC wing of the Democratic Party will not only acquiesce but actually help them, e.g., Lieberman in Florida 2000. But even in 2006, our candidates did not deliver what we the voters expected of them.

Our rulers don't care about us rattling away in our internet ghettos. So the question (the million dollar question) is how to get our message out to the masses. We need to expose fake Democrats, attack the media at every turn (the term MSM is simply not pejorative enough, let's use presstitutes, newswhores, Pravda USA, corporo-fascist liars, the Propaganda Ministry, etc. -- anything that will jar an accidental listener) and question every DRE result. Our voting system is simply illegitimate and we need to shout this from every rooftop.

Now it might be my imagination, but sometimes it seems I have gotten an emotional response from major TV/cable news outfits to zinger comments. If you go to their websites they almost all have comment pages, that usually don't even require an email address (but of course, they can record your unique IP address (if you wish to avoid this, use a library, internet cafe, or a proxy, such as TOR available through eff.org)). It seems to be a historical trait of the lying, fascist mind that they're very touchy -- criticisms are taken very personally, they don't like to be called on their frauds. So maybe it's not my imagination that I've gotten a response. I believe the newsrooms and newspersons truly believe they have us fooled, let's call them on it.

This seems so little. People are used to following leaders, but the Propaganda Ministry won't allow truly boat rocking leaders to develop if they can help it. Obama seems promising, we'll see. There seems to be a fight in the elite, perhaps one wing has decided to takedown the BFEE -- see McClellan's book, MSNBC's treatment of Bush, Richard Clark's statement that the architects of the Iraq war shouldn't be allowed back into polite society. This could be an opportunity for us to spread the truth even further.

Long range goals are easy -- no computerized voting and a breakup of media monopolies. But for now we have to fight the corporo-fascist media every step of the way.