Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Okay folks, I need help. Read this article and help me enlighten

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 07:12 AM
Original message
Okay folks, I need help. Read this article and help me enlighten
goober:

An Articulate Piece written on the War we are Fighting

"For what it's worth ...
This is the most cogent and powerful essay on the threat of Islamic
terrorism I have ever read. Dr. Vernon Chong is, without a doubt, the
most articulate and convincing writer I have read regarding the War in
Iraq. If you have any doubts, please open your mind to his essay and
give it a fair evaluation. It's also eerily applicable to other
current issues, such as Iran 's nuclear program, immigration, NAFTA's
impact on American jobs, trade deficits, etc. I had no idea who Dr.
Chong is, or the source of these thoughts, so when I received them, I
almost deleted them, as well-written as they are. But then I did a
Google search on the Doctor and found him to be a retired Air Force
surgeon and past commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San
Antonio ."

If you would like to see who this fine man is, go to this Air Force web
site and look him up:
http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=5000" Then read below.

Muslim terrorists and the U.S.A.:
A different spin on the war in Iraq: This WAR is REAL

Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our
country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we
know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes
WWII).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are
very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer
who realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start?

Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer, as far as the United
States is concerned, is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with
the following attacks on us:
* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
*Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran , Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi , Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam , Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden , Yemen USS Cole2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon2001.

(Note: during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist
attacks worldwide.)

2. Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks
happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush
1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or
Democrats, as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or
their immediate predecessor, President Ford.

3. Who were the attackers?

In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%.

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?

Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the
predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under
the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that
made no difference. You either went along with the administration or
you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by
the Nazis for political reasons (including
7,000 Polish priests).

*see http://www.Nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis as
the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom
hear of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler
kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy in killing
anyone who got in the way of his extermination of the Jews or of taking
over the world - German, Christian, or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but
kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, British, French
or anyone else. The point here is that, just like the peaceful Germans
were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many
peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the
terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing --
by their own pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't
blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was to
remain silent or be killed?

6. So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than
the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid
verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win
if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major questions:



1. Can we lose this war?
2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions:

We can definitely lose this war and, as anomalous as it may sound, the
major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the
answer to the second question - What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means
hanging our heads, bringing the troops home, and going on about our
business, like post-Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can
get.

What losing really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks
will not subside, but, rather, will steadily increase. Remember, they
want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they
would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us over
the past 18 years. The plan was, clearly, for terrorists to attack us
until we were neutered and submissive to them.

We would, of course, have no future support from other nations, for
fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see; we are
impotent and cannot help them.

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, on e at a time. It
will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain
hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to
withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim
terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops.
Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope with France is that
they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are
finished, too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without
us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already
20% Muslim and fading fast.

Without our support, Great Britain will go, also. Recently, I read
that there are more mosques in England than churches. (I wish to add
here I recently had friends from England stay in my home for 3 weeks {
3 different people } who are saying , this is true, and they are
afraid.. E K L).

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports, and way of life
will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal
with us if they were threatened by the Muslims? If we can't stop the
Muslim terrorists, how could anyone else?

The radical Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and
therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We'd
better know it, too, and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple.
Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put
100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take
that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That
is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their
purpose and failing to dig in and lend full support to the war effort.
If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to
be divided, there is no way that we can win.

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the
life and death seriousness of this situation:

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.
Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men
between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta ref uses to allow
profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously?
This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of
the civil rights to which we have become accustomed. We had better be
prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most
certainly lose all of them permanently

And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of
civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the
victory ... and, in fact, added many more since that time.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our
Political Correctness and all of our civil rights during this conflict
and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to
war. Get them out of your head.

Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the
Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us
lose.

I think some actually do. I hasten to add that this isn't because they
are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing
means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy
that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends and it does
great damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media
regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war perhaps exemplifies
best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue involving the
treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our
military police.. These are the type prisoners who just a few months
ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their
hands, cutting out their tongues, and otherwise murdering their own
just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.

And, just a few years ago, these same type prisoners chemically killed
400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the
same type of enemy fighters who recently were burning Americans and
dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq And, still
more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos
to all news sources internationally of the beheading of American
prisoners they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several
days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating"
of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their
charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but
"humiliating" them.

Can they be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the
Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of
comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are
fighting, the life and death struggle we are in, and the disastrous
results of losing this war, nothing can.

To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this
prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome
burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world.
Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife.
Again, I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media
people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely
oblivious to the magnitude of the situation we are in and into which
the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us for many years.

These people are a serious and dangerous liability to the war effort.
We must take note of who they are and get them out of office.
Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels.
That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States,
but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense.

We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge
is valid. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good,
powerful, and smart that we can win the hearts and minds of all those
who attack us, and that, with both hands tied behind our back, we can
defeat anything bad in the world. We can't!

If we don't recognize this, our nation, as we know it, will not
survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are
defeated.

And, finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow
freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of
the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status
or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way
that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war
or we will be equated in the history books to the self- inflicted fall
of the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow
history books to be written or read.

If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims
take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to
increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach,
little by little, on the established French traditions.

The French will be fighting among themselves over what should or should
not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any
united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some
external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away,
politically correct piece by politically correct piece.

And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown,
worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even
to themselves, once they are in power.

Muslims have universally shown that when they have taken over, they
then start brutally killing each other over who the few will be
controlling the masses.

What is happening in Iraqis a good example. Will we ever stop hearing
from the politically correct about the "peaceful Muslims?"

I close on a hopeful note by repeating what I said before: If we are
united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now, after the
election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the
critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It
is your future we are talking about. Do whatever you can to preserve
it. I reiterate: our national election is under way.

After reading the above, we all must do this, not only for ourselves,
but for our children, our grandchildren, our country, and our world.
Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal ... and that
includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world.

Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it. Our
"leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too. There are those who find
fault with our country, but it is obvious to anyone who truly thinks
through this, that we must UNITE!

Lastly, I wish to add: at the risk of offending, I sincerely think that
anyone who rejects this as just another political rant, or doubts the
seriousness of this issue, or just deletes it without sending it on, is
part of the problem.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Lint Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. There is no 'War on Terror'. Terror is a tactic. It has been with
us since the beginning of mankind. I am offended by the statement:

"Lastly, I wish to add: at the risk of offending, I sincerely think that
anyone who rejects this as just another political rant, or doubts the
seriousness of this issue, or just deletes it without sending it on, is
part of the problem."

This off handily states that if you do not agree you are un-American. That statement is the epitome of FASCISM.
It's the typical 'ends justifies the means bigoted statement. Don't be afraid to call a bigot a bigot or a fascist a fascist.
I do it on a daily basis and I feel great about defended the Constitution that my blood relatives have fought and died for. :dem:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. I looked at a couple of points, and I can't take the guy seriously.
Edited on Fri Jun-13-08 07:39 AM by Jim__
2. Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks
happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush
1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or
Democrats, as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or
their immediate predecessor, President Ford.


Bullshit! Under Carter, they took the embassy mostly because Carter gave the dying shah refuge in the US. In Lebanon, Israel had invaded in 1982 and Lebanon was in the midst of a civil war. Most of the rest have to do with having US troops on Arab territory, the Israel/Palestine conflict. Envy of our position, our success and our freedoms is just bullshit.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That
is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their
purpose and failing to dig in and lend full support to the war effort.
If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to
be divided, there is no way that we can win.


Lend full support to what? To anything the president wants to do? If we disagree with anything the president wants to do, does that mean we are not lending full-support and therefore causing us to lose?

Sorry, I can't take this guy seriously. If he wants a serious discussion, he has to start by getting some basic facts right; and acknoledging the ambiguity of the overall situation. He's not doing either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Yes
When you poke a stick in someone's eye, you can't blithely feign surprise and sputter that they envy you when they haul off and smack you.

This clown is just regurgitating RW talking points, ones that have been knocked down a thousand times before, yet they still set them up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. You said exactly what I was thinking. This article is based on false assumptions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. They attacked us because they hate our freedom and are jealous
Whatever happened to critical thinking?





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I live in Nebraska. You won't find a lot of that here amongst the
general population. But this guy is from Kansas. He's a salesman. He reminds me of Gomer Pyle, he sounds EXACTLY like him.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. Crap like this doesn't bear repeating
Delete it and move on. It's nonsense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Thank you for your oh so helpful and constructive response.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. A bit intolerant, aren't you?
So I didn't respond the way you wanted me to? Gee, and I thought you were looking for input.

Well, I guess you just wanted the kind of input you wanted.

Control. It's a beautiful thing, especially in its absence.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Intolerant? Hell no. Just wanted information, not your personal
opinion on whether the subject deserved a rebuttal or not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Both of you be nice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. How's this?
<curtsey>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Mejor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. That WAS information, but
you failed to recognize it. It said, essentially, if you could read, that the item didn't deserve a rebuttal. Or any kind of response.

I'll let you go now, and wish you well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. And you were appointed boss when? Who was it that told you
that your were this websites 'Decider'? Do you have any other rules I should know about?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
9. What is it that you want to know about this article?
what do you think of it? what's wrong, what's right in the piece?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
10. Typical of what is wrong with our media..
arguing falsehoods, while playing the fear card. Julius Streicher would be so proud of Goober.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
12. Sounds like all the right-wing spin one could ever need for a lifetime
It all sounds so familiar - I wonder how you can't see through the "usual", and bogus IMO, arguments.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CANDO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
13. Why did they attack us?
Can't possibly be for the fact we've been meddling in their affairs for most of the past 100 years. No, we didn't really help overthrow the duly elected Iranian leader in 1956, that is just the figment of someone's imagination. Can't imagine why they are so pissed with us. Of course my take on it doesn't matter because I'm part of the "blame America first" crowd. Sarcasm off.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
18. H.L. Mencken answers this sort of nonsense best.
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” H.L. Mencken

"Goober" qualifies as one of those in the populace "clamorous to be led to safety".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Thank you, I'll use that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
19. Snopes says it is FALSE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Yep, found that out a while ago Googling the good Doctor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yes and what the hell does a doctor know about any of this stuff?
He's no more qualified than a plumber to tell any of us what the hell is going on in geopolitics.

Doctors learn how to fix bodies. That's it. In fact they generally receive an education that's heavy on applied science and weak on history, etc.

Military doctors tend to hang out in safe areas waiting for our soldiers to come in to be treated. They're not on the front lines seeing what's going on, they're part of the logistics team. They don't strategize, or survey the field, or read intelligence reports, etc.

Now I think Doctors are great, and Military doctors are perhaps even better than great, but I'm not going to ask one to come over and fix my septic tank, anymore than I'm going to ask one to tell me what good foreign policy is all about.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Yup a fake written by a lawyer.
Can the GOP do anything that is real and genuine or have they gotten so use to lying that they don't even know the difference?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. Who would attack due to "envy."
That is so blatantly stupid on the face of it.

The RW is in fact envious of the Islamic states which have Islam as the "official religion." It's what they wish they could have for their religion in this country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-14-08 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
27. I got this from one of my employees last night
I usually don't get these types of emails but this one is like a really bad virus.

Surely we could draft a response to this mess.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 05th 2024, 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC