Right-wing Pretzel Logic.......

I'm listening to this caller to Thom Hartmann right now, arguing against universal health care, saying it will lead to government-subsidized cars, coffeemakers etc etc.

:dunce: :dunce: :dunce:

It reminds me of my arguments with the Freaky Fundie Lady at work. No matter how much logic you drop on them, they'll find an even crazier refutation.

Mon dieu!

And a Maserati.

:wtf: I don't get it.

Can you add some details of the "logic" here, please? :hi:

.... and Thom ended up having to disconnect him because he uttered some obscenity.

and they're all the ones who think other people choose to get sick and if they could force everybody to stay off cigarettes, booze and fast food, illness would disappear as part of the human condition.

It's bunk, of course, but these are the people we're up against, the ones who think for profit, marketplace health care works because illness is always a conscious consumer decision, like buying a coffeepot or car.

Funny, they don't seem to blame themselves when that family heart disease lands them in the hospital. That's when they want somebody to take care of them.

despite that we already pay more than twice what everyone else pays for (questionably) similar care. I also notice that few naysayers seem to notice that we are already paying for uninsured people's care, just not effectively (cost or medically) as it's in the form of ER visits.

I also usually turn it off when Kerry Washington from the Independent Women's Forum is on. She makes me crazy. When she's on mSNBC )or is it CNN?) she plays it "nice," but Thom Hartmann calls her on her stupidity. But still, I just can't listen to her.

Whenever someone starts going on a RW tangent like that by saying UHC will lead to gov. sponsored coffee makers and televisions, ask them if certain public institutions we all consider part of our basic humanity should be privatized and made for profit.

ie, ask them 'do you think someone who works at walmart part time, makes 8k a year and pays $1,000 a year in taxes deserves to have the police spend a hundred thousand dollars looking for her if she is kidnapped, knowing she'll never earn enough to pay off the search?'

or

'Do you think the children of poor families deserve to go to school, even though their parents pay little in property taxes'

or

'Should the military refuse to protect states that pay little in federal taxes like Mississippi and reserve itself for protecting states that pay higher federal taxes like New York or California?'

If they believe you should pay upfront for meaningful services, ask them what all services they feel this should include.


If they say no they are too nuts to debate with. If yes, then you have an opening to work with.

...they dont have any, they merely repeat what they have heard on the radio a thousand times.

From my experience, doctors are not the problem. If you need hospitalization that is where the scam comes in. The cost of insurance for Dr.'s is outrageous and yet it seems Congress can't get the stats on Insurance claims they bitch about for malpractice suits. The average person that has been treated and injured by a negligent Dr. can not afford to pay for witnesses to prove the negligence but, the insurance companies are well represented with witnesses that will claim the Dr. did no wrong. Most attorneys can't afford to pay the cost of good witnesses for the patient unless the case is gross. Just one example.

The hospitals pay their help poorly and charge the hell out of the patient. Dr. Frist, former Senator, is one of those people that got rich with the HMO plan, he and his type companies are the biggest part of the problem with our current system. Heath care, like energy costs should have government controls.

Its just that the consumers don't get the subsidies - the automakers do.