So why are we in the hole we are regarding torture?

And is this the first time we've done it?

Actually no.

During the Indian wars there were many cases of torture of American Indians, and that only stopped, sort off, when the people protested

Then there was the Spanish American war, To our credit troopers who used the water torture were court martialed for it, for violating standing orders

Of course during WW I and WW II we actually built a record for humane treatment of POWS that led to the belief that we would not do any of these horrors to POWs, and led to massive surrenders of Iraqi troops in 1991

So where exactly did this start?

In central America... starting with our advisors to the Guatemalan regime in 1956... then moving down to Chile and Argentina, where we had to get rid of them labor commie activists. The virus was planted there. It really got bad during the NIcaraguan and Salvadoran Civil wars, where the CIA had a role...

So here are some of the things that were done IN YOUR NAME in CA.

Our advisors taught folks like Battalion 100 to go out into the field, and enter towns, and line people up. These battalion did things like rape women in front of the kids, or actually raped and sodomized the kids in front of mothers and fathers. In other cases they lined folks in front of a ditch and just shot them. At times they took men, of military age, to the local or regional prisons where they were systematically tortured and there were men present who were referred by different monikers but who were, we suspect, American, CIA.

What is true is that after the wars in Central America were over... none of these advisors faced the music... or for that matter the locals who were subjected to horrors that most cannot face. Some of these horrors include things like leaving somebody in an icy room, cuffed to the ceiling, half standing, half hanging. and did I mention naked? There were children sodomized and raped. There were people who lost their fingers and toenails, systematically. A few died, how many we don't know

But after those horrors were over, nobody said a thing. We just mostly moved on with our lives

Chile and Argentina have had a truth and reconciliation commision, and some of the countries in CA will move in that direction

But until we, as a nation, realize that torture has been done in our name, it will continue.

If the next president decides to move on... I can guarantee that the next time it will happen here, since we are refusing to cure the virus.

This is some food for thought for many who say, but what is this to me?

here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6379446

sorry if I am a tad weary

And in truth this country NEEDS a truth and reconciliation commission

And all the talk of lets see what we have done is seen as unamerican... not blowback... so this has to STOP

And yes, I want to see a wholesale cancellation of teevee schedules and this commission testimony replace it

EVERY american has to see this, smell it and touch it... it needs to be clear, this is what has been done in OUR name

As long as they are allowed to operate, we know this isn't a nation of laws.

While Obama introduced legislation to regulate them, he knows he can't draw them down without replacing them with US forces that we don't have.

Quite a pickle we're in.

go down any street and ask any average loyal Amerikan citizen about torture, blackwater and the rest

Best case you will get a quizzical look

Worst case, you will be called all kinds of names

It is a way of thinking, and denial

Oh and those in power just LOVE IT

Mission accomplished

:shrug:

the virus has been around for a LONG TIME.

Remember Air America? And I don't mean the radio station?

Remember the Flying Tigers? And I don't mean Boyington's boys

Blackwater is just the latest iteration of this virus....

And it is a NATIONAL way of thinking... the main infection virus, Manifest Destiny

last weekend.

One author (Blackmon, Slavery by Another Name) mentioned that one of the earliest instances of water torture recorded in America was against black convicts (slave laborers) in southern Georgia in the late 1800s.

and make it mainstream, I mean the conversation... as painful and embarrassing as it may be

It also busts the we are special meme... or outside of history meme

and be willing to speak, to look for venues.

If I didn't have dependents, I'd be sitting outside Pelosi's office right now with a "Torture -- Still on that table! Thanks, Nancy!" sign. I swear to god.

than mere petitions at this point

Just wanted to let you know most people are glad someone is doing something about our torturing.

I tell torture supporters that if I am ever tortured that I will tell the torturers that that person is the one they need to torture, not me.

If America ever can face it's torture history and deal with it, we will become a better country. 'Tis a worthy goal.

Thanks, nadine.

which has been routinely swept under the rug.

Hell, most HISTORIANS do not even write about this

I mean, this is not a polite subject if you know what I mean

America, I hate to say this, has it's head up its ass.

It is up to us to get our country cleaned up and standing tall again. And we do that by getting people to admitting the country's mistakes.

Will it ever happen? All we can do is keep trying.

invade Americans time, aka American Idol needs to be cancelled

Otherwise, people will deny it ever happened

This needs coverage 24\7 and for years if need be

And the history of the last fifty years needs to be fully taught

Until then we are spinning

And Manifest Destiny needs to go

Or America keeps digging this hole. Or suffocates from breathing ass air, if you will.

Maybe prison? Maybe if we put the present day torturers in prison America would understand? Or is impeachment still off the table for too many?

after all, we cannot trouble our time and we have an election

:sarcasm:

To the point that I will have trouble voting for EITHER of these two war parties

(yes it is about the constitution)

It is up to the people to put it back on the table and make her eat it.

The asswipes here that try to dissuade us from impeachment are probaly the same ones who relish torture, so there is that.

started with the usual platitudes, that they can forget my vote

And they can... in November I will cast a PROTEST vote

I know her seat is way too safe... so I hope squeaking by, or winning by less of a percentage will drive the point home

After the primary win tough I doubt it... but I will still cast a protest vote

By the way, the Constitution, they are allergic to it

from Gitmo and Abu Ghraib have the proof or smoking gun. Before, Republicans and war apologists could claim that what was done to them was like fraternity pranks. It was their word against the word of those who claimed that torture occurred. The doctors (and damn I forgot their association name but I'm sure Thom will have it on his website) have documented proof of evidence of torture. This needs to go before Congress.

the 1980s were swept under the rug...

It has to be more than just congress

Paying reparations to Iraq would be a good begining

Hopefully Obama will be the kind of President who will kick them in the ass to do the right thing.

assuming he wins

People don't seem to remember, but he ran a very progressive campaign, but ran a very conservative guv'ment

human rights he might do what needs to be done.

now he may need to do what he needs to do because of circumstances

After all FDR did not run on the new deal either

But, at this point until I see it, I will believe it