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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 11:30 AM Original message |
Poll question: Nationalize the Oil Companies |
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sam sarrha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 11:42 AM Response to Original message |
1. funnel all th profits to renewable sources, This's a matter of national security & national survival |
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roguevalley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 07:23 PM Response to Reply #1 |
104. the neither count blows my mind. I guess some people don't |
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dkf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 11:46 AM Response to Original message |
2. If we seize the oil companies why would any other |
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benedikt15 (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 12:23 PM Response to Reply #2 |
8. National Oil Companies |
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Rage for Order (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 06:52 PM Response to Reply #2 |
103. Also, how would it help us, exactly? |
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taught_me_patience (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 12:01 PM Response to Original message |
3. Hell no |
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Xenotime (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 07:31 PM Response to Reply #3 |
106. Hell yes |
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benedikt15 (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 12:04 PM Response to Original message |
4. Regulate the Oil Racket |
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TooBigaTent (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 12:13 PM Response to Reply #4 |
5. The "public interest" is being so well cared for by the corps as they now operate, right? |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:46 PM Response to Reply #5 |
20. No, which is why better regulation is needed. Not nationalization. |
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mhatrw (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 05:09 PM Response to Reply #20 |
88. Because Chavez's political enemies sabotaged his nationalization |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 05:30 PM Response to Reply #88 |
94. I keep pointing out that Venezuela's oil industry was already nationalized. |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-20-08 08:59 AM Response to Reply #20 |
119. A tangential point about the Soviets |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-20-08 09:08 AM Response to Reply #119 |
120. As for Venezuela... |
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zorahopkins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 12:15 PM Response to Original message |
6. Oil Is OUR Resource. |
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benedikt15 (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 12:44 PM Response to Reply #6 |
9. A few details |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:08 PM Response to Reply #6 |
14. American oil is our resource. Middle East oil, not so much. |
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DadOf2LittleAngels (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:10 PM Response to Reply #6 |
15. Ummm we have no oil |
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AngryAmish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 12:16 PM Response to Original message |
7. I'm sure that would work out well. |
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jpljr77 (580 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 12:59 PM Response to Original message |
10. Other: Force them to withdraw from the stock market |
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kentuck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:03 PM Response to Original message |
11. Nationalize the refineries and buy the oil on the world market... |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:15 PM Response to Reply #11 |
31. Why do you think that refineries are the bottleneck? |
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kentuck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:58 PM Response to Reply #31 |
50. Without the refineries, there is no gasoline. |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:43 PM Response to Reply #50 |
60. That doesn't mean they're the bottleneck |
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kentuck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:16 PM Response to Reply #60 |
76. You make it sound like these are some type of Mom and Pop operations?? |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:34 PM Response to Reply #76 |
80. I never said any such thing. |
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kentuck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 05:32 PM Response to Reply #80 |
96. I saw your chart from the Dept of Energy... |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 05:51 PM Response to Reply #96 |
99. OK. If you look at the second section |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:05 PM Response to Original message |
12. Eeek! Hugo nationalized the oil industry!! And, look what happened there! $.12 per gallon. |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:55 PM Response to Reply #12 |
24. Two big mistakes in one sentence! |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:17 PM Response to Reply #24 |
33. That's one mighty big "if". |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:32 PM Response to Reply #33 |
40. Your reasoning is rather backwards |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:49 PM Response to Reply #40 |
46. I think that Chavez won't want for investors. |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:16 PM Response to Reply #46 |
55. Um, Venezuela's GDP growth is down 50% and FDI is falling too |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:57 PM Response to Reply #55 |
69. Their 2008 growth is 8.3%. "down by half" only in comparison to one year |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:02 PM Response to Reply #69 |
72. Hehe, You beat me to it. I was just going to post that. n/t |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:15 PM Response to Reply #72 |
75. let's see if there's further comment from data-boy. |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:31 PM Response to Reply #75 |
79. Excuse me for spending half an hour doing something else, I'm sure. /nt |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 07:59 PM Response to Reply #79 |
108. wasn't talking about your response time. |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:30 PM Response to Reply #69 |
78. Yes, and 2008 growth is projected to be 4 - 5.5%. |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 08:01 PM Response to Reply #78 |
109. project, smoject. Latest data point = 8+%. I think the US last achieved that in... |
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mhatrw (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 05:14 PM Response to Reply #24 |
91. So why can't we nationalize the oil industry like Venezuela did before Chavez? n/t |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 05:38 PM Response to Reply #91 |
97. It might be possible, but there two things worth considering |
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old mark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:05 PM Response to Original message |
13. Absolutely, YES,YES,YES!!! |
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deaniac21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:13 PM Response to Original message |
16. We shouldn't stop there. All corporations need to be nationalized. |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:34 PM Response to Reply #16 |
19. Not all or we end up like Soviet Russia but the extraction industries should be |
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deaniac21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:53 PM Response to Reply #19 |
23. Farmers might not like that. |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:13 PM Response to Reply #23 |
29. I'm sure the big corporate farms that have taken over our farming industry |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:18 PM Response to Reply #29 |
34. But this is effectively what already happens with subsidies. |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:32 PM Response to Reply #34 |
39. Why would the government have to own the land although they do own |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:43 PM Response to Reply #39 |
43. I thought that was what you meant when you said 'nationalize farms'. |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:50 PM Response to Reply #43 |
48. We definitely can't solve this in message board posts, but we really need |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:44 PM Response to Reply #19 |
45. Soviet Union is the only example in all history of nationalization, right? |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:53 PM Response to Reply #45 |
49. Hey I'm on your side. |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:02 PM Response to Reply #49 |
52. It's really a question of management models, not ownership per se. |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:58 PM Response to Reply #16 |
25. And what do you expect to achieve by that? |
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tom_paine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:24 PM Response to Original message |
17. Not so long ago, I would have balked at this idea, but the Oil Industry are criminally complicit |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:32 PM Response to Original message |
18. And while we are at it nationalize all extraction industries as well, that |
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Fountain79 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:49 PM Response to Original message |
21. Wouldn't that be unconstitutional? n/t |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:51 PM Response to Reply #21 |
22. Do you have an article or amendment to the Constitution in mind that |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:06 PM Response to Reply #22 |
28. 5th amendment, most likely. |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:15 PM Response to Reply #28 |
30. Okay the private property mention. However, most of these |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:23 PM Response to Reply #30 |
35. That I could agree with. Perhaps royalties could be based on market values rather than a fixed sum |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:35 PM Response to Reply #35 |
41. Oh dear royalties again. No we need the government to do this. |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:06 PM Response to Reply #41 |
53. Fair enough, but look at the history of Chile in between |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:09 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. Remember who brought them Pinochet, the |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:20 PM Response to Reply #54 |
56. Quite, I'm just saying that nationalization is no panacea for those issues. |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:26 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. He accepts the results of elections. That's hardly authoritarian. |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:47 PM Response to Reply #57 |
62. It's not an either/or proposition |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:53 PM Response to Reply #62 |
68. Yeah, but his proposals are put to a vote and either passed or defeated. |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:36 PM Response to Reply #68 |
81. So? That doesn't alter my opinion of his leadership, or that I endorse Bush's leadership whatsoever. |
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Occulus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:25 PM Response to Reply #28 |
36. But oil companies aren't people. |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:26 PM Response to Reply #36 |
37. I agree. n/t |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:49 PM Response to Reply #36 |
47. Their shareholders are. Even institutional shareholders... |
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newmajority (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 01:58 PM Response to Original message |
26. Lock these criminal bastards up and charge them with treason. |
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Carnea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:04 PM Response to Original message |
27. Nationalizing Oil Companies will mean you tax dollars support H2 owners fill-ups. |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:16 PM Response to Reply #27 |
32. 24 cents a gallon? I think most Americans would support that. |
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Carnea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:30 PM Response to Reply #32 |
38. So people in New York City should pay taxes to fill up f150's in Alabama... |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:40 PM Response to Reply #38 |
42. Really and why is the bill the same? Could it be government subsidies? |
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Carnea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 02:44 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. Your making no sense to me. You can waste water by having |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:00 PM Response to Reply #44 |
51. Well, you know who wastes the most water and gas? It's the same people who |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:38 PM Response to Reply #42 |
59. I have to disagree here |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:51 PM Response to Reply #59 |
66. But don't you see it's always Joe Sixpack's fault and the real |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:47 PM Response to Reply #66 |
86. Actually I feel waste is more evenly spread through the system |
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A HERETIC I AM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:28 PM Response to Reply #59 |
77. Off-Road Diesel is dyed red in the USA also, and for the same reasons you cite. n/t |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:37 PM Response to Reply #77 |
82. Thanks. I don't drive here so I've never looked into it. /nt |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:29 PM Response to Reply #27 |
58. Huh? |
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Carnea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:58 PM Response to Reply #58 |
70. I'm sure congress would compete with each other who can lower the price of Gasoline faster. |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:01 PM Response to Reply #70 |
71. Apparently, not this Congress, but |
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aint_no_life_nowhere (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:45 PM Response to Original message |
61. I say use the taxing power to regulate their behavior |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:49 PM Response to Reply #61 |
63. Seconded. |
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Bluerthanblue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:49 PM Response to Original message |
64. quickest way to get more healthy alternatives- and technology |
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emad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:51 PM Response to Original message |
65. Nationalization = bonkers. |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 05:12 PM Response to Reply #65 |
90. Interesting examples - EU has state-owned companies in this sector... |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 06:10 PM Response to Reply #90 |
101. I'd say they're about 50/50 |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 07:30 PM Response to Reply #101 |
105. I couldn't for a moment fool myself into seeing the EU as angels... |
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Swamp Rat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 03:52 PM Response to Original message |
67. Nationalize the Oil Companies 100%, and seize all the personal assets of the owners and CEOs |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:03 PM Response to Reply #67 |
73. Now you are talking |
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Swamp Rat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:09 PM Response to Reply #73 |
74. They are all thieves, and therefore have NO property rights. |
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Thothmes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 06:17 PM Response to Reply #73 |
102. The money was not stolen. |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 08:04 PM Response to Reply #102 |
110. Who stole it from the US Treasury for them in an unacceptable |
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Thothmes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 09:36 PM Response to Reply #110 |
114. Again our congress allows no bid contracts |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 09:40 PM Response to Reply #114 |
115. Well, I don't think it changes the fact that they have used taxpayer's |
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Thothmes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-20-08 07:10 AM Response to Reply #115 |
117. The other exception to bid contracting |
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TBF (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:39 PM Response to Original message |
83. Hell yes but Obama better give a warning so I can go on vacation first - |
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bridgit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:40 PM Response to Original message |
84. Nationalize! |
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Dover (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 04:42 PM Response to Original message |
85. Nationalize water and utilities, energy and perhaps some aspects of food. |
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mhatrw (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 05:03 PM Response to Original message |
87. Natonalize the entire defense and health industries as well. n/t |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-20-08 08:42 AM Response to Reply #87 |
118. While you're at it, break up (create free market) the media! |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 05:10 PM Response to Original message |
89. I wish some of the 'Nationalize!' folks would offer some details of how they expect this to work |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 05:20 PM Response to Reply #89 |
92. Good points |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 05:48 PM Response to Reply #92 |
98. Yes, and I thought your OP was thoughtful and considered multiple points of view |
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Dover (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 05:32 PM Response to Reply #89 |
95. I think nationalizing is only a step, not an end. It's important to get control |
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anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 05:59 PM Response to Reply #95 |
100. This I totally agree with |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 08:10 PM Response to Reply #95 |
111. Thank you. |
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galledgoblin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 05:30 PM Response to Original message |
93. how would dropping the price of oil |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 07:34 PM Response to Reply #93 |
107. Why does nationalization mean dropping the price? |
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galledgoblin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 08:13 PM Response to Reply #107 |
112. seems like that's the main reason for support in this thread |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 08:16 PM Response to Reply #112 |
113. Could be. Interesting. It's not what I meant. Wonder if certain people read my OP. |
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T.Ruth2power (371 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-19-08 09:43 PM Response to Original message |
116. K&R |
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