I believe the reason the Dems caved in is that

they do not want to be blamed for another attack and there is no way McSame is a viable candidate, so with my tin foil hat, I understand. As Dean is saying the 'fear factor' won out.
That said it is a very bad day for civil liberties.

Gr.

It's right there in our Constitution, plain as day:

"No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed."

Article 1, Section 9. See for yourself:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.ar...

"ex post facto" = 'after the fact' = RETROACTIVE


:grr:

Now, who's got the money for a lawsuit?

-app

rather than preserving the civil rights of the citizenry. They have nothing but contempt for us.

It matters not what Democrats do. They will be painted with the same broad brush.

Truth, lies, it does not matter. The republican talking-points always "win."

Democrats are now being blamed for the high price at the gas station. Is that truth? Or spin?

Nancy and Reid must go along with the other cowards.

There is no difference between them and repukers.

We wouldn't have had any of the hearings in either the House or the Senate and without those hearings people would not have known about all the lies and all the violations.

they are all professional pols looking out for number one, every one of them, no exceptions

supposed to know more about the Constitution than us more or less said that our government is fucked on both sides of the aisle. They said they are afraid of being guilty of being complicit with a rogue government so they have to run out the clock to have enough time to go slinking back under their safe rocks. Not their words. Mine. But that's what they said more or less in carefully couched terms.

but Dean did raise the fear factor.

part of the problem,

the leadership WAS briefed on the torture and all that and they didn't object

They are liable

It is CYA

They love it when people say they are caving. Caving means that they have their hearts in the right place but for very pressing reasons they are going against their better nature and caving.

These politicians do NOT have their hearts in the right places. They want these bad bills.

Dems are not caving. They are legislating exactly the way they intend to legislate.


This is the way they WANT it.

It's a crass calculation of noting how many morons lie in your district who can be told untruths about a given congressperson's 'unpatriotism', and how many will believe it. West Virginia showed us even Dems still thought Obama was a Muslim, even when presented with proof he was not. The more of these genetic embarrassments lie in the district, the more the odds increase of the Dem not getting re-elected.

There was a way to get past this, a show of unity and force. Educating the public constantly about why you're voting this way, but that takes initiative and effort and the wherewithal to take a risk, and the those particular Dems are cowards.

and I'll be telling him about it in the meantime.

perhaps losing their reliable and taken for granted constituency might be it.

never mind keep that oath about defending the Constitution, I hardly see why I should be bothered to vote for them.

they do not want to be blamed for another attack

If there's a credible threat of that, they should say so. We have that color coded alert crap for a reason, ya know. Also, we all know now they were *already* pulling this wiretapping stunt before September 2001. Wait, we still got attacked, right? I hardly think the government's lack of legal cover to listen in on the phone calls of millions of people in the US had anything to do with NORAD's stunning lack of response. If multiple warnings from intel offices of various nations around the world along with a certain "historical document" were not enough to let little bushiepants know we were in danger, that's no reason that, seven years later, I have to let someone listen in on my Dad calling me to ask if I bothered to mow my lawn lately.

Just sayin'.

The FISA system WASN'T BROKEN. It worked JUST FINE the way it was.

There were NEVER any instances where foreign calls COULDN'T be monitored. NONE.

And the FISA court was known as one of the most lenient in granting warrants. In it's ENTIRE HISTORY, it had only turned down a handful of warrants out of thousands of requests.

And furthermore, the government DIDN'T HAVE TO WAIT for a warrant because warrant requests could be issued retroactively.

The only thing this bill did was REMOVE the mandatory warrant review process, and place all power in the EXECUTIVE BRANCH..

They were afraid that if they didn't vote for it, then the Bushies would "find" WMDs or there would be a false flag attack on the U.S.

it weakens them politically

i plan to re-register as an independent and the democrats can have my vote if they earn it.

Ya get what ya vote for.