Holy Moly! Is America really this religious?

More than 90% of Americans believe in God? About 75% believe in Heaven as a place where people who have led good lives will be eternally rewarded?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/23/ST2008062300818.html

With no offense to organized religion, my circle of family and friends is sure out of that loop! To each his or own own, but I did not realize (if one were to believe this) that we are in such the belief minority.

Speaking ONLY for myself, having traveled to many distant lands, I've grown to appreciate the vast diversity of our world beliefs - and have adopted a rather eclectic view...with an affinity toward Buddhist, Pagan, Native American, and Atheist perspectives. I see plenty of room for a little truth in everything, but find the Judeo-Christian dominant view of our culture to be archaic and not very inclusive.

I grew up in the Bible belt, but ever since leaving Georgia as a young man so many years ago - I found I could live in the Pacific NW and hardly ever bump heads with the religious majority. I thought after all this time, maybe that has changed? Or maybe there can be such a thing as the religious left?

Not only do I believe in evolution (thanks Charles Darwin), but that as a society, we too are evolving. How many generations will it take before we don't have ONE dominant religion anymore (thanks John Lennon)?

:think:

The 'dry' counties down South?

:rofl:

There are non-practicing Americans who believe in God.

What's the difference between being "religious" and believing in God or heaven and being "not religious" and believing the same. I kinda assumed religion and said beliefs went hand in hand.

Of course, don't blame ya if this is too dang deep for a Monday. :hi:

I think being religious is someone who prays and goes to church as much as possible. Someone who deeply believes in their faith and uses it to guide them throughout life. Then there are people -- probably most Americans -- who do not pray daily, or go to church often. They believe in God, but that's the extent of their religion. They may not belong to any religion and if they do, it's in lapsed form.

But that's just my take. I could be wrong.

No right or wrong-

Just individual perspective.

Thanks for sharing yours. :)

but do very little in their lives that would suggest they are any different from most atheists/agnostics.

Church and prayer aside, in my experience the average Christian (I only say Christian because I grew up Christian and that's the majority religion here in the US) is no more likely to be a "good" person than the average atheist. They are no less likely to cheat, lie or steal, or to show empathy and forgiveness or be generous, etc.

Keep in mind, I'm NOT saying they are less likely (although when it comes to repressed zealots they are often the worst hypocrites), just no more likely than your basic non-theist.

That's why people should be judged based on their actions rather than their professed beliefs. As much as I despise zealots I respect the fact that they really do believe and that they act on those beliefs (yes, the actions are often outrageous and damaging, but that's another story).

There are many people who are spiritual but not religious. Me, for instance. I lean more towards the Taoist philosophy and believe more in a Universal All rather than a conventional god, and I don't believe in "heaven" or "hell" but I do believe in an afterlife.

But I don't susbscribe to any one religion and don't consider myself religious. There are quite a few of us.

It's a question of dissipating black/white thinking. For instance, the democracy/fascism parallel: many can't understand how elements of both can manifest in human/social systems, so when dissidents point out the obvious draconian aspects, the naysayers are quick to dismiss, because, after all, in their estimation, elements of both cannot co-exist.

in that article was the 20% of self described atheists who believe in God. Whuich sort of seemed to defeat the purpose to me. Kind of like saying, "I swear to God, I an atheist."

My guess is that the 20% of atheists that you refer to are really agnostic.

I think they were surveying religious attitudes, not literacy.

...that said a large majority of the US does believe in God but that doesn't mean all of those people attend church regularly.

It said many people, when asked, will say they believe in God but when they asked about church attendance, the number goes way down!! I think it was about 50% who admitted to attending weekly services and the number went up a little when asked if they attended church but not on a regular basis.

would bring that number back to the minority value it deserves.

I think most people just want others to believe they are Christians.

Cheers
Drifter

I honestly don't know the answer to that question. Maybe there is a God, maybe there isn't I have no clue. I have a feeling that many of the people who are counted within that 90% feel the same way as me.

But here's the thing. Let's say I believe in the concept of God.

When most people hear that in America, I think they take it to mean the Big Bearded Guy In The Sky who's looking out for us, etc., or some version of that.

But it could just as easily be an apathetic "God" who doesn't really care, or even a malevolent God who not only doesn't have our best interests at heart, but quite the opposite (or somewhere in between).

I'm much more willing to accept the idea that if there is a God, that it (I say "it" because saying "He" assigns a gender and I find it difficult to believe that God has a cock and balls) is relatively indifferent to human affairs. At least that seems to make more sense based on the evidence we have (and don't have).

Glossing over rape, torture, murder, starvation, disease, natural disasters and molestation as "free will" or part of a "test" or "plan" seems completely and totally illogical and incompatible with a benevolent God who's looking out for us. By contrast these things make perfect sense if "God" is indifferent, malevolent or somewhere in between.

and still not getting anywhere, it may be comforting to think that there is a god who loves you, and that there is a "better place" waiting for you..

That's how religion "works"..

bad stuff happens?.. god loves you and things will get better..your bad stuff is a "test"..and your reward will be in heaven
good stuff happens?.. god REALLY loves you, and MORE good stuff will happen

the way that is phrased is very inclusive and not directed toward any one religion - or even organized religion.

personally, I *believe* there is an underlying consciousness in everything, which puts me - a very non-christian/judaic person - in that 90%

big deal.

believe.

She also didn't believe in abortion until HER period was late.

And now 20 years later she's had an ongoing extramarital affair.

But, hey, if a pollster asked her, she'd say, "Why SURE I believe in God!"

or a Goddess or something Divine.

90% is about right for the U.S., but DU is more liberal and educated than the U.S. as a whole. With higher education, liberal thinking, and prosperity comes lower religiosity.

Edited to lower my estimate. :)

I know we're not all scientists here, but you can see from Nature survey, that there is a strong correlation between critical thinking and disbelief in God.

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

I wonder how many of those survey responders know these verses...

"Behold I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces."
-Malachi 2:3

"Hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you."
-2 Kings 18:27

"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys, and whose emissions were like that of horses."
-Ezekiel 23:20

"Therefore will I discover thy skirts upon thy face, that thy shame may appear. I have seen thy adulteries and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom, and thine abominations on the hills in the fields."
-Jeremiah 13:26-27

"And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the evening."
-Leviticus 15:16-17

"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."
-Revelations 2:22

"But woe to them are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!"
-Mark 13:17

"And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man."
-Ezekiel 4:12-15

"Whenever a woman has her menstrual period, she will be ceremonially unclean for seven days. If you touch her during that time you will be defiled until evening."
-Leviticus 15:19

then report the unusually high percentage answer and inform people that many of them won't be going there. :rofl:

I think this is rigged.

This survey is always promoted heavily when it comes out. My impression through the years of Pew Research is that it specializes in extreme conventionalism, always reinforcing the status quo.

Both the media and the report writers themselves play with how they're presenting the results, mainly in what and how they highlight, and what they choose as headlines.

Here's the survey.

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

The question yielding the 92 percent answer is not listed separately there, but from the listing of the results it's clear that it roughly ran, "Do you believe in God or a universal spirit"? Spirit of what? "Universal spirit" is incredibly vague, and I believe many people who are basically atheists but not doctrinaire about it would say they believe in it. On alternate Tuesdays, I also believe in "universal spirit," a concept that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with God. A sociologically valid question would give a choice of multiple answers, and certainly not equate "God" (understood by almost everyone to mean a specific, sentient entity) with "universal spirit" (a variable philosophical concept).

Says the report:



Other paragraphs give more differentiated views and cast doubt on the 92 percent figure, although they don't seem to generate as many newspaper ledes:



(Note: I don't even see how Western Buddhists can be considered theists. They're invariably interested in the practice of meditation as a means to overcoming suffering and reaching personal enlightenment, and not the often-flexible doctrines of the religion per se.)

I think the questions concerning "absolutely certain" belief in God and actual practice in the form of attending church services are far closer to the reality of religious adherence and belief in God in the United States:



Then there is the herd effect. In this culture, people are generally reluctant to say they don't believe, or if they are uncertain or their belief is shallow or nominal, they will tend to go with the herd. Starting with the sociologically incompetent mixing of two different concepts in the central question (God vs. "universal spirit"), I see no indication that this survey acknowledged this problem, or attempted to deal with the distortion this would cause. Quite the contrary; the underlying preference seems to be to lump as many of us as possible together in a common identity as "Americans," albeit with a tendency to "tolerance," so that definitive-sounding results can be given.

I'd like to see a survey that acknowledges the herd effect and is clearer about the range of possible answers. Going from these results, it seems to be about one-third of Americans don't really believe in the conventional God but go along with the conventional answer without devoting much thought to it. God isn't a factor in their lives, but they'll express allegiance anyway. Let us recall how atheism in particular has been demonised, and the threats of hellfire from the right. This survey is not taking place in a neutral environment.

Here's another question that's not as clear as the statistics make it seem:



I'm Greek, so to the Orthodox Church I am affiliated even if I don't believe in the religion. On some days I might be inclined -- if a survey called me -- to say I am affiliated, just to see our true numbers reflected against the Anglo-Protestant majority. I'm sure many people, especially nominal Catholics, answered out of this form of team loyalty.

The last question may be closest to the truth, by the way - the 16 percent "unaffiliated" may correlate most closely to the group implicitly telling you they reject religion. You can bet that almost all of the "unaffiliated" grew up in some church or other, or are considered by their own family to be Catholic or Muslim or Protestant, even if they don't think so themselves.

I'd like to see a survey drawn up by atheists and agnostics without a pro-religionist bias, like this one. Hell, I'd like to see one with an anti-religion bias, to see how high our numbers can be pushed when atheists are doing the manipulation!

Just because someone believes in God doesn't mean he/she's religious. I know a lot of people who believe in God but don't go to church or do anything religious. And I would bet you that 30-40% of those people are really closet agnostics/atheists.

I think that poll's really, really skewed.

if these religion polls are similar to the polls asking people if they watch PBS. Most people, if asked will say they watch PBS even if they don't because they want to be identified as the type of person who watches PBS.

If you're on the fence about Christianity, you don't want Tim Russert in heaven asking you about that survey you took denying that God exists. :rofl: Christianity gurus know this, so they always push for these types of polls knowing that it'll overestimate religion in their favor.

are not religious. but i am sure, confident, not surprised 90% believe there is a higher power, universal power, god. way different from being religious.

Obama's church--yes, Reverend Wright's church--is as liberal as they come. Forget the sound bites, the reality is that Christian denomination is anti-war, pro-gay marriage, pro-environment, etc. There are other liberal Christians as well, such as the Quakers, the Metropolitan Community Church (a national gay Christian denomination), and really liberal and progressive branches of the Lutherans, Catholics, Episcopalians, American Baptists, and Methodists, among others. There are also a whole bunch of people in the US who I call "cultural Christians," that is, they grew up with Christian parents and may or may not have gone to church as children or as adults, but who know some basic Bible stories and teachings of Jesus, and like what they know. (Of course, cultural Christians can be good or bad, depending which Biblical stories/interpretations they've embraced.)

Then there are a lot of religions that believe in a god, goddess, or a pantheon of gods and goddesses. Many Buddhists also believe in God (nothing in Buddhism prohibits belief in God, it is more a philosophy than a religion). Likewise, many pagans believe in a God/Goddess, or a pantheon of supernatural beings expressed through nature, and the same could be argued about Native American traditions. Most of these non-Christian-but-spiritual people have become used to expressing their beliefs of God/Goddess or a pantheon of gods or spirits with the US culturally accepted short-hand word "God." It's just easier to say you believe in God than to explain your detailed beliefs to people outside your belief system. That has developed as both a protection device (to avoid persecution in the Bible belt, for example) and also because those belief systems aren't evangelical.

Check out

Do Buddhists believe in God?
Beliefs of Native Americans, from the Arctic to the southwest
What Neo-Pagans Believe

Analysis (as in this thread above, too) here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3507892&mesg_id=3507892

I tend to lump those who do so in with the brainwashed rightwing fundies. Not much critical thinking going on.

I think it probably is, if you include everyone who believes in something supernatural, i.e. ghosts, angels, karma, a higher power, etc. After all, what is karma but a belief in a higher power, that somehow there is a universal balance that will even things out in the end?

many of the people who still believe in God don't attend church or practice religion, and some also just keep believing "just in case" God exists, so they don't go to hell.

I too believe in evolution. But I see that as God's plan for man. Part of his creative process. Far more than man evolves. Micro organisms and even galaxies evolve. That's the difference between the religious right and the religious left. The religious right doesn't believe in evolution. The religious left believes in evolution. But we also believe it was God that created evoloution. We see creationism and evolution as being one. Evolution is the method to the madness of creationism. Adam or Man changing with the assumption of knowledge and his evironment.

I think it's all a mass delusion and an opiate to the masses used throughout history by despots...but I'm in the minority.

Don't believe it for a second.

to the extent that most people seemed indifferent and ignorant of religion than hostile to it.

For example, I had a friend who was surprised that churches were open on Thanksgiving.

A supermarket clerk told me that they didn't have hot cross buns because Passover was over.

So yes, the Pacific Northwest is a special case. The Midwest is a whole different environment, and so is the East Coast, although the religious mix is different.

still think there is an invisible man in the sky that is concerned for THEM.

I just do not understand how that is even reasonable, it does not even make any sense at all. Have they ever looked at the Universe and how infinite it really is? Have they ever saw where we are in that infinite ocean? It sure does not sound like it, when 90% still believe in the improbable and nonexistent.

We can say that gawed does not exist. Why? Because there is NO empirical evidence to support the idea of the existence of such a being...ZERO evidence. When you see the universe in all its vastness, becomes even more clear that such a being does not exist, even if it did, it would not be at all concerned about our well being let alone our existence. IF, only IF, such a being existed, we and all life here would be an accidental result and not the primer of its goals.

ITS goal, would have been to create an infinite universe(if not several universes)from a self sacrifice. The Big Bang would have been the end for IT and the birth of the universe.

However, that is just on idea that I have about it. There is NOT any empirical evidence to support the notion of the invisible man in the sky that answers prayers and grants wishes, let alone gives 2 shits about what happens to anyone. It is high time people get up off their knees and make things happen for the better, there are NO answers to be found in bronze age religion it is all pointless drivel that was not scribed for this day and age.

With Katie Couric. I doubt it, but not being religious, I suppose I don't know.

I have noticed a trend toward mega churches among younger people, teens to 30's. Some of these churches are very bad news, don't even pretend not to cherry pick the bible. One of my daughters joined one---more of a social contact than religious feeling, so I looked it up. Not TOO bad as these things go, but that underlying fundie hatred is there. Hidden well, but there. Thank God (pun intended) she's not serious about it.

Some of them have some very strange bullshit about Mars and a hill--Don't ask me