are you ready for a bigger perspective on global climate changes.?.

We on a planet,Earth ,And this planet is also located in a galaxy embedded in a 'arm' of said galaxy. A galaxy which is spinning in space and expanding along with everything else as it spins.

What makes people so quick to blame themselves first?( I think it's because people been conditioned to do that by a psychopathic system of governance.)
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/official_culture.htm

Blaming ourselves for the climate changes does not help solve it or allow us to admit we cannot control,the possibility something bigger than this planet and bigger than our tiny greenhouse gas situation on our Earth is doing something to effect our planetary system..It might be originating from forces in space that we might not be able to control at all.

It is known in psychology that a sense of having control,even if it's a lie, gives people a sense of security and self sufficiency,but the larger unknown/misunderstood forces at work in space I am sure are not worrying about our alleged mental comforts ,or are hell bent on exploiting our fears ,and illusions about feeling in control and such like the"leaders" who are exploiting our minds and our society by fostering this"controlled insanity".That ends up limiting our search for answers.

These obviously catastrophic global changes on Earth and the same happening the other planets could really be from some interactive unknown/known phenomena related to forces that effect the solar system,the sun, the galaxy, and it's core,as it moves through space,and expands.

That means we are not in control of this change that is upon us.
So I wonder why do so many people continue to not "do anything" as drastic as what is required to change the course of global warming? Are people suicidal deep down? Or aware of something they can't control but desperately repress? Do you really think by changing our superficial habits like using less fossil fuels,buying a prius. or putting in fluorescent bulbs, instead of incandescent ones and such really do anything significant.. if half the Earth is as apathetic as we are in changing their habits?.

Maybe this apathy is an unconscious acceptance of the inevitable? So,it seems if the galaxy is changing ,our Earth is changing too. Can't we admit the push to change our habits has more to do with improving OUR lives, and how we power civilization is because we know oil is just about tapped out?

We do not know all there is to know about how space,time, ,dimensions, realities,etc.We do not know all there is to know about how space actually interacts,we theorize,we observe and we have to update everything if certain discoveries change the equation.Regardless, we are limited in studying this universe's patterns,anomalies and are undiscovered forces.Some things we can't yet detect that could effect things even tho we can't detect it now.We cannot use our limited understanding to really understand how space etc.actually works and effects life here and how it all causes the effects that are seen by our telescopes and probes on our solar system and our melting ice caps..It could be the sun, or part of an even larger cycle of things that spans aeon's.We haven't been around long enough and technologically able as we are now
for long enough to see what these cycles are about yet..There's our limited observations and what's known already that we rely on our limited knowledge to make guesses, but truthfully we do not know all the variables in this equation.Really.

To broaden the perspective on climate issues further it is known that Mars is losing it's polar ice too. So if you believe this global climate warming is all our fault ..tell me why the FUCK is MARS Arctic poles melting too? Why are Jupiter's storms changing and it has more red spots than ever before, Why is Venus is getting brighter? And why the sun spewing more and bigger flares, getting bigger coronal holes,than what has been recorded before? Why is the Galactic core acting up and the dust behaving strange?

Maybe "saving the planet" is out of our hands.
Saving the planet however is a great distraction from the inevitable changes to come on Earth and in the galaxy itself ,as we ride on one of The milky way's spiraling arms as it hurtles through space, in an unknown trajectory into unknown territory,into the unknowns to come that we must face regardless of our habits, beliefs or the control games we play..


Motion of galaxies
http://www.astronomynotes.com/galaxy/s7.htm
Mars is warming
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
Other planets are changing, not just ours.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=65165
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/jupiter_spots_040421.html
Is it the sun?
http://www.livescience.com/environment/070312_solarsys_warming.html

Galactic core..bow shocks?
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=probing-the-galactic-core

More ..
http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0503/0503158.pdf
http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/01/laviolette_prediction_of_pione.html
http://eprintweb.org/S/authors/All/la/LaViolette

The shit will hit the fan ,on Earth,regardless of the rush to make and promote and profit from "green " technology. Yeah green technology is a good idea because the way we power things HAS to change,for our own sake. Are we puny hairless apes really such a horridly powerful species that we alone are responsible for killing Earth and so bad we are even responsible for fucking up JUPITER'S climate too? Is that stance of guilty pride realistic or damn megalomaniac,self absorbed and silly ,( hubris anyone?) on humanities part?..

Do we have to always blame ourselves first for climate change, or any other nasty phenomena that we cannot control by pretending we can control it ? Blaming ourselves and barking at each other with self righteous glee if someone isn't as green as thou,looks kinda pathetic if you realize the changes in climate is happening not just on Earth but also co-occurring on Mars and Jupiter,Venus etc, too?

Just sharing some thoughts outside the box here..

These thoughts are hardly outside the box of big business rationalization for irresponsible exploitation.

I said in the OP changing our habits is a good Idea..Not to save the world really, but for OUR own sake we need to change.MY statements in this regard are BIG DIFFERENCE than your ignorant assuming..Your knee jerk response looks kinda like you didn't even bother to consider my points or meaning in my OP..Does me even saying the thought you and humanity can't control the solar system and galaxy and what happens threaten you that bad? Geeze,get over yourself.

on Earth. The Earth will go on, with or without us.

and we should try to save ourselves. I could say, why are we not doing more? Why is there even 1 SUV still on the road? Why isn't public transport everywhere yet? Why are zoning laws still in the way of people turning thier lawns into gardens or small farms?
What mechanism inside people and inside our culture keeps
What is causing this rigidity and force of habit that is not helping us remain so prevalent?

Also how is being a rigid thinker and refusing to ask questions about unusual phenomena that is happening but is less popular or less known than the mainstream understanding of climate change.How is not asking questions and trying to break out of intellectual ruts going to help us accomplish saving ourselves?

It isn't.

and technologies that have less impact on the environment are a scam.

Get over your self and your power elite propaganda.

what's your point in being so obtuse and rude to me?
Assume much?
I am no elite,and power isn't in my hands,and propaganda? WTF? I was asking a question,speculating on an idea.
YOU get over yourself.

Dayum.The knees are jerking all over the place.

Really?

I wanted to speculate on the possible contributing factors to climate change.But you'd rather complain,than engage in free thought so...whatever.

this is called "denial."

Just add him to the "Junk Mail" filter, and he'll go away.

think. I look at Nasa and other sites that are 'mainstream' too. I don't know or care who Imhofe is.

Denial about thoughts that are not'mainstream' enough runs deep, it pings people's defenses .So just because you think you can control what a galaxy does to a planet does not mean your hostility to a anyone even asking this question is warrented..for simply for asking it..
Here's some more mainsrteam sources for you..feel better? *pat,pat,pat*
UW-Madison's Space Science and Engineering Center
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-05/uow-bns051403.php

Scientists from Nasa say that Mars has warmed by about 0.5C since the 1970s....
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece

Nasa Again..
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080523.html

Explain Nasa's decision to change it's mission statement..Nasa's statement was quietly altered, with the phrase “to understand and protect our home planet” deleted. WHY??
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/22/science/22nasa.html

Denial runs deep.

Get over yourselves . Scared to ask questions,scared of going out of the safe fenced in thinking you are used to/taught..Baaaaa?

From the National Geographic article *you* linked:

Abdussamatov's work, however, has not been well received by other climate scientists. "His views are completely at odds with the mainstream scientific opinion," said Colin Wilson, a planetary physicist at England's Oxford University.

"And they contradict the extensive evidence presented in the most recent IPCC report." (Related: "Global Warming 'Very Likely' Caused by Humans, World Climate Experts Say" .)

...


Perhaps the biggest stumbling block in Abdussamatov's theory is his dismissal of the greenhouse effect, in which atmospheric gases such as carbon dioxide help keep heat trapped near the planet's surface.He claims that carbon dioxide has only a small influence on Earth's climate and virtually no influence on Mars.But "without the greenhouse effect there would be very little, if any, life on Earth, since our planet would pretty much be a big ball of ice," said Evan, of the University of Wisconsin.

And from the Times Online article:

"The mechanism at work on Mars appears, however, to be different from that on Earth. One of the researchers, Lori Fenton, believes variations in radiation and temperature across the surface of the Red Planet are generating strong winds."

It's different that difference doesn't rule out the notion that climate changes on earth are not JUST caused from humans on earth, it could be a natural unknown phenomena and human pollutions,both together that make Earths global climate changes look different than Mars does...And,maybe because mars is not just like earth,not as close to the sun as Earth is, and the fact mars has two moons..I posit it's climate changes might look different than a planet with the characteristics that are particular to earth with only one moon would look.
Duh'oh.

And contributes only a fraction of a percent. See your own links below.

Why is the sun changing,and the planets too.Why all these changes happening at the same time roughly?
Kinda strange coincidence don'tcha think?
So I was simply wondering about possibilities, wondering if there's some force,law of physics,a time/space/dimensional cycling thing,maybe an effect of brane theory, or some other phenomena out there that is a natural part of the universe,(not "god")that we haven't measured or found a way to detect yet, that could be contributing to the changes?

Changing not just on Earth but to the whole solar system.Did our galaxy simply move into another area of space,or even perhaps shift dimensionally as it has been expanding, and these effects on the planets climates, that are changing each differently and in differing degreesYes... but somehow planet climates are changing..How could this phenomena happen in sync this way?

I am wondering why? how?

I am just speculating,asking questions, and free thinking on the issue of climate change and the effects of it,here and elsewhere.Why is that such a bad thing to wonder about?

And lastly my OP was pointing out people treating each other badly over the issue of climate change and conserving energy or asking questions and wondering, about it or whatever is not useful to solving this crisis.

Do you understand my intention here was not to debunk the obvious, but to free think about climate change related phenomena?
And my intention was also to point out psychological issues in humanity in general that could limit us in where we look for solutions and limit the questions one can ask in looking for a solution too.

World Net Daily...no need to even be discussed.

The Space.com article is actually very interesting and I read it before. However it has little do with with Earth. The reason given for climate change on Jupiter is:

"Unlike Earth, Jupiter's equator is not much warmer than its poles, even though the equator receives more sunlight. That implies something is globally mixing the heat pretty effectively, Marcus explains. (Another factor is that Jupiter generates much of its heat from within.)

The vortices play a role, he thinks, with chaos as a supporting actor. Imagine putting dye in a cup of water. It doesn't mix well. But shake the cup -- introduce some chaos -- and the dye mixes easily. The vortices create chaos that extends from the visible surface down into Jupiter's hidden belly.

As more vortices on Jupiter merge, a period of calm will set in, reducing the mixing of atmospheric heat.

"If you knock out a whole row of vortices, you stop all the mixing of heat at that latitude," Marcus reasons. "This creates a big wall and prevents the transport of heat from the equator to the poles." He notes that the predicted equatorial warming of 18 degrees Fahrenheit dwarfs any climate changes measured on Earth."

"If you knock out a whole row of vortices, you stop all the mixing of heat at that latitude," Marcus reasons. "This creates a big wall and prevents the transport of heat from the equator to the poles." He notes that the predicted equatorial warming of 18 degrees Fahrenheit dwarfs any climate changes measured on Earth."

And how much farther away from the SUN is Jupiter?
And how different is Jupiter from Earth as a planet?
And why is it warming too?
OF COURSE Climate changes on Jupiter would look different or appear to be less severe than Earth's are. We don't have 300 year long storms!!Earth is not so gaseous.Earth is not so distant from the sun,Earth does not have an atmosphere that's 75% hydrogen and 25% helium by mass..last time I looked.
Earth days aren't 9.8 hours ..
Earth hasn't got 57 fucking moons either.
http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/stu/jupiter_moons.html

Jupiter with that thick cloud cover. dontcha think it might just RADIATE more heat from the sun than Earth does?? It only gets 4%,of the sun's heat.
Some people think Jupiter might have an internal heat source to account for it's temperatures, so, if those temperatures are rising despite all the cloud cover and convection to manage temperatures in a delicate chaotic balance....why is it still happening? What is overcoming the climate regulation system of Jupiter that has been consistent pretty much,until recently?

Oh,Nasa said THIS too..
Jupiter's recent outbreak of red spots is likely related to large scale climate change as the gas giant planet is getting warmer near the equator
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080523.html

We all know the professors at Berkley are so stupid aren't they? :sarcasm:

That professor must have been a real idiot to even say THIS which IS part of what my OP was implying.

"Still, it's important to have different 'labs' for climate," says Marcus. "Studying other worlds helps us better understand our own, even if they are not directly analogous."

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/04/21_jupiter.shtml

This one was really easy because your own article says "no"

"Recent studies have cast doubt on this relationship, however. New estimates of the total change in the brightness of the Sun during the Maunder Minimum suggest it was only fractions of a percent, and perhaps not enough to create the global cooling commonly attributed to it.

“The situation is pretty ambiguous,” said David Rind, a senior climate researcher at NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, who has modeled the Maunder Minimum.

Based on current estimates, even if another Maunder Minimum were to occur, it might result in an average temperature decrease of about 2 degrees Fahrenheit, Rind said.

This would still not be enough to counteract warming of between 2 to 12 degrees Fahrenheit from greenhouse gases by 2100, as predicted by the latest Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report."

I intended to do that,I WANTED to show BOTH sides of that sun causation argument, to offer more POV to consider? To invite free thought and exploring on this topic?
Sometimes reading pro side of an argument and than the con side of the same theory can free up your mind to consider other approaches than the ones offered.Both arguments make some good observations and both have some points.I wanted to go beyond the surface.But sadly some are not capable of this. So they insult me instead and try to shut down the thread.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's sad really.

For those who don't know..

Dialectical thinking is thought to the second power: an intensification of the normal thought processes such that a renewal of light washes over the object of their exasperation, as though in the midst of its immediate perplexities the mind had attempted, by willpower, by fiat, to lift itself mightily up by its own bootstraps. Faced the operative procedures of the non-reflective thinking mind (whether grappling with the philosophic or artistic, political or scientific problems and objects), dialectical thought tries not so much to compete and perfect the application of such procedures as to widen its own attention to include them in its awareness as well:

it aims, in other words, not so much at solving the particular dilemmas in question, as at converting those problems into their own solutions on a higher level, and making the fact and the existence of the problem itself the starting point for new research.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**And by deliberately linking BOTH a pro sun causation argument and a con sun causation argument,That conflict creates a dialect point,a tension of opposites (the inner leverage described below)that can free up the more rigid thought processes and allow us to speculate on new novel ideas.That is what I was trying to do here . But,sadly it was all LOST on you all.I guess I overestimated the willingness and capacity of the respondents to my OP to challenge themselves intellectually,and regrettably I was solipsist about your ability or willingness to move past the rigidity of the same old ,into a more encompassing exploration and discussion of new ideas that I was hoping for.**.Sigh.**
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back to Dialectical thought..

This is indeed the most sensitive moment in the dialectical process: that in which an entire complex of thought is hoisted through a kind of inner leverage one floor higher, in which the mind, in a kind of shifting of gears, now finds itself willing to take what had been a question for an answer, standing outside its previous exertions in such a way that it reckons itself into the problem, understanding the dilemma not as resistance of the object alone, but also as the result of a subject-pole deployed and disposed against it in a strategic fashion -- in short, as the function of a determinate subject-object relationship. There is a breathlessness about this shift from the normal object-oriented activity of the mind to such dialectical self-consciousness -- something of the sickening shudder we feel in an elevator's fall or in a sudden dip in an airliner. That recalls us to our bodies much as this recalls us to our mental positions as thinkers and observers. The shock indeed is basic, and constitutive of the dialectic as such: without this transformational moment, without this initial conscious transcendence of an older, more naive position, there can be no question of any genuine dialectical coming to consciousness.

ttp://prelectur.stanford.edu/lecturers/jameson/excerpts/marxform.html

We do know that CO2 traps heat and that we are increasing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere (and secondarily, this increases water vapor in the atmosphere). Climatologists who have studied this say that we are definitely causing a least a part of Global Warming. The models indicate that we're cauing most of it.

So, yeah, there might be something else going on that's out of our control; but it makes sense that we should control the part that we can control. By doing that, we may control the entire situation. We should keep our eyes open for other causes; but, for now let's control the part that we can.

Exploring unconventional causes for or exploring different contributing causes to climate change is NOT the same thing as climate change denial.Climate is changing there is NO denying it.

>We do know that CO2 traps heat and that we are increasing the amount >of CO2 in the atmosphere (and secondarily, this increases water >vapor in the atmosphere). Climatologists who have studied this say >that we are definitely causing a least a part of Global Warming. The >models indicate that we're causing most of it.

I agree we might be causing part of it,I never said we were not.but people that can't read assume alot of shit..We could also be increasing the speed of what was going to happen anyway..too.But I do not dismiss the idea out of hand that global climate change isn't also affected by a larger process that is beyond human activity and our control.

>So, yeah, there might be something else going on that's out of our >control; but it makes sense that we should control the part that we >can control. By doing that, we may control the entire situation. We >should keep our eyes open for other causes; but, for now let's >control the part that we can.

THAT's WHAT I was Saying..
But also adding a Question that seems to upset the"scientists" with hubris blinding them asking..why are climate changes happening to the entire solar system too?

Yeah each planet expresses it different than Earth Duh they are NOT Earth,so why is it affecting the solar system too?

And I am sick to death of all the self righteous pride and guilt games,control freak brow beating and arrogant posturing and denial,from some people.It does not help a damn thing to be such closed minded narrow thinking bullies because someone ASKED a DAMN Question they can't bear for some reason, that I have no clue why they act like that over a damn question ..
And the irrational hostility to my plea to encourage stopping all the self effacing ,toxic guilt and self righteous sniping hypocrisy over climate change issues ..And to encourage exploratory free thoughts to look beyond the limited perspectives on climate changes that are most popular and look at other sides that are not necessarily less valid,,Note I said:(climate change denial is NOT valid as an option because climate change IS happening) but to explore thoughts about climate change that are less popular right now.

What's wrong with saying that? That's what my OP was about..

Exploring unconventional cause is different than making claims like: That means we are not in control of this change that is upon us. That's a complete sentence from the OP and there is no qualifier to that statement that says maybe.

And, it is certainly misleading to proclaim THAT's WHAT I was Saying.. with reference to let's control the part that we can when part of what you actually state is: Saving the planet however is a great distraction from the inevitable changes to come on Earth and in the galaxy itself .... Controlling what we can control is not a great distraction. Proclaiming that there is some kind of change taking place throughout the solar system without significant evidence to support it, is a distraction from reacting to what we can react to.

Yeah each planet expresses it different than Earth Duh they are NOT Earth,so why is it affecting the solar system too?

Why is what affecting the solar system? Where is the evidence that there is something that is affecting the solar system and that Global Warming is only a part of it? Did you read the article you cited from scienceastronomy? They talk about what they believe is happening on Jupiter:





As to Mars and Pluto, here are some possibilities:



Yes, alternative ideas are worth discussing. But there is an awful lot of science that points to the cause of Glbal Warming on earth. We should give far more weight to that science than to speculations about what else might be causing Global Warming.

>Exploring unconventional cause is different than making claims >like: That means we are not in control of this change that is >upon us.

Well, can you control Jupiter's climate? I know can't do it.
If whatever it is that's changing Jupiter's climate is somehow also affecting Earth on some level,which logically makes sense to me..that it COULD affect Earth too, since pretty much all the other planets nearest to us are experiencing some kind of climatic changes also..I do think..human beings will not be able to control THAT more solar system oriented part of the problem that very likely could be affecting Earth too.OK ? Good enough? or do I need to break it down for you more? or not?


>That's a complete sentence from the OP and there is no qualifier >to that statement that says maybe.

Do you need a qualifier to think for yourself when in conversations all the time or can you assume the person you are communicating wuith isn't trying to be an asshole first?? Or can you consider my intentions are not as hostile to humanity saving it's own ass from climate change as you assumed it was?
'

Also sometimes my thinking moves faster than my one finger typing can go.Sorry I am human,I have limits like everyone, maybe not the same limits as some of you might have,I am not a typist either, my 1 finger typing isn't all that fast,but my mind is.I review my posts spell check it and all but I don't catch every omitted qualifier every time..I do try to complete my thoughts in my posts but sometimes they don't come out all compartmentalized,linear ,all qualified and worded to be reassuring in the way some people prefer,everything they read to be like. Just be aware I am not a linear thinker,I am more visionary/creativity oriented,that does not mean I am stupid,a crackpot or can't grok scientific theories and such I do grock it ok more than you might think...Also,I don't regurgitate information or conjure up "legit sources" on demand that anyone can find if they simply google it,I get really sick of doing that shit for people that can't think unless some professor somewhere or the Associated press says it's ok to entertain the thought..
This isn't a classroom and I'm not submitting my thesis for my P.hd degree here ,it's just a damn discussion board online..Geezus.

But people who refuse to give me a benefit of a doubt,when I accidentally omit the comforting qualifiers ,seem to me to do it because they are snarking which isn't thinking. It is irritating and a waste of my time..


Reacting in a knee jerk way to what I post because of personal issues, isn't honest,to yourself or to me. So STOP IT.Do I have to pre-digest everything or people can't cope? Really? Is it that bad? So, sue me for not carefully spoon feeding people soothing qualifiers to explain my emotional states while writing a question I ask,to people that should know how to think by themselves already. Who can wait to see I am not a jerk.And I am not a jerk until someone acts like an ass hat to me first.Most of the time that's how I roll..

So,while I am trying to convey a complex question that is controversial to some people that I suspect, might be being obtuse on purpose,because they like being snarks for no discrenable reason, while typing it all down with one finger isn't the easiest thing to do FOR ME.. Cut me some slack here.Why the rush to condemn and insult me for asking a damn question?

Failing to ask me for the actual info you needed from me,(the qualifier) after trying to poke holes in arguments I am not making yet,and insulting me too boot is a good way to get a thread on a nasty start..Anyway,. Tell me WTF do you all think I am I to make of THAT reaction I got here? Should I just say thank you may I have another? Hell no I won't do that shit..

Give me a chance..don't just react and assume that I am a rabid cat or stupid first OK?' And Please, DO ask me for the qualifiers you want to hear that I may have worded badly or missed in my OP directly,but ask for it BEFORE this pathetic pile on to get as much ass-holiness in my face as possible insulting my intelligence begins ok?
I'd appreciate civility..Simple social civility it goes a long way..Try it.

You live in a closed environment. You pollute that environment and then blame God. Are you really as stupid as all that?

You are DOING it.


Exploring unconventional causes for climate change or exploring different contributing causes to climate change in addition to human activity is NOT the same thing as climate change denial.Climate is changing there is NO denying it.

I am asking why the solar system is changing.
Why is that a "stupid" question to ask?

Psst..part of science comes from people who ask questions,even questions that make people tweak or are outside the box.

Ever read the way the Benzene Ring was discovered? It was discovered in a DAYDREAM.
Friedrich Kekule "cracked" the mystery of the Benzene Ring
because he listened to his unconscious mind, He asked the questions ,stepped outside the box and he found the answer.

Was Kekule So stupid and so crazy to find the Benzine ring?

Or the more likely truth is YOU are living in a closed environment. You pollute that environment and then blame others who offend you. Are you really as stupid as all that?

Obviously you are stupid as all that..And you resent that I am not in lockstep with your beliefs for you.

And..I for the record I don't believe in your god.My beliefs are mine,and you wouldn't be able to understand it because you can't even handle a question..Yeah I don't like this reality where life must devour other life to live and die anyway.. but I don't deliberately go out of my way to harm the Earth because the way things are here are ghastly to me.And I don't pollute any more than anyone else does here.I don't own a corporation that pollutes on a mass scale either.So??

So Project away, you seem determined to make me the monster that is all the shit inside you, that stinks..Shit you refuse to OWN,like a good little true believer.And I will hold up a mirror to your denied shitty self so you can't keep on projecting it on everyone that challenges your little closed world by asking a damn question that you can't handle..OK?

yes, we can sit on our hands and say it's the mean old sun heating up too much and there's nothing we can do, boo hoo, but ask yourself this: what useful deed to help suffering humanity comes from assuming that there's nothing that can be done?


i'm always suspicious when "thinking outside the box" so conveniently concludes that there is nothing that can or should be done because it's all hopeless anyway

IN My OP I said: hell bent on exploiting our fears ,and illusions about feeling in control and such like the"leaders" who are exploiting our minds and our society by fostering this"controlled insanity".That ends up limiting our search for answers.

This statement intended to question the Elite assholes who we all know are trying to limit our search for answers,by restricting thought,using psychological shit like self blame and getting people to snub or attack each other to do it.


So in my OP I wondered why so many people continue to not "do anything" as drastic as what is required to change the course of global warming.It was poorly worded but below the part of my OP I pasted I try to convey what I intended to say in the OP but got confused.Ok?.

I said in my OP:
Are people suicidal deep down? Or aware of something they can't control but desperately repress? Do you really think by changing our superficial habits like using less fossil fuels,buying a prius. or putting in fluorescent bulbs, instead of incandescent ones and such really do anything significant.. if half the Earth is as apathetic as we are in changing their habits?.

In the paragraph above I asked whiy some people are APATHETIC about the dangers of climate change. And some people ARE apathetic..you can't deny that..So I wondered why they are that way?I speculated on the emotional disconnection,and denial I see about issues of climate change in people.Their rigidity..I used half the Earth to represent all the people that are NOT changing habits,and people who get in the way of others changing their habits.A significant amount of people are in the way and apathetic. For an example take China.China is blithely pumping out obscene levels of pollutants,I questioned how is our fussing over light bulbs will make changes happen in the dramatic ways needed to avert climate change..And I wondered what is keeping the very real obstacles in place that are personal,political,social and corporate ,stalling changes? Changes some are unwilling to do even in the face of annihilation ? Why?? Changing the way things have been done in the drastic ways that are required of us all to stop climate change for real is not easy,simple and it is not happening fast enough.That's reality.And we are facing some bad shit if we don't change.

If our survival is at stake here and we are in control of climate change totally ,why are people still NOT changing habits to save our own asses for? Why are we piddling around with light bulbs? We need to STOP DRIVING NOW.It makes NO sense to me the mixed messages of dire warnings,,arbitrary urgency, numbed by pointless convenience and watering down of the changes we need to do so they are made ineffective.This IS disturbing considering the MAGNITUDE of the problem it looks really dysfunctional too.

That's what those two paragraphs from my OP were attempting to convey.
So you still think I am so evilll?
Asking WHY is what CAN do is before it does..hun.

Understand me yet?
PS I don't drive a damn car.

...on the time scale of 10⁵ of years.

On shorter timescales, the radiation balance is moderated most strongly by "greenhouse gases," principally CO₂. Humans are dumping about 7 gigatons of carbon into the atmosphere annually; this carbon injection is larger than at any time in the history of the planet. We will dump as much carbon into the atmosphere in 500 years as volcanoes emitted over 10,000 years, during one of the largest mass-extinction events in Earth's history, the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM).

Make no mistake, the current warming trend is dominated by human carbon emissions. We'd better get it under control, or we can look forward to another PETM event, probably in our lifetimes.