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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 03:44 AM
Original message
How Long Does Drug Prohibition Need to Continue Before It's Declared a Failure?
How Long Does Drug Prohibition Need to Continue Before It's Declared a Failure?

AlterNet | By David Borden, Drug War Chronicle | Posted June 30, 2008

For alcohol prohibition, our US version, it was about 13 years. Between mafia crime, poisonings from adulterated beverages, http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/049/editorial.shtml">and the dropping age at which people were becoming alcoholics, Americans decided that the "Noble Experiment" -- whether it should actually be regarded as noble or not -- was a bad idea. And they ended it. http://www.nysun.com/editorials/lift-a-glass/80751/">New York State did its part 75 years ago today, ratifying the 21st amendment to repeal the 18th amendment, bringing the Constitution one state closer to being restored. It took another half a year, until December 5th, to get the 36 states on the board that were needed at the time to get the job done. But Americans of the '30s recognized the failure of the prohibition experiment, and they took action by enacting legalization of alcohol. Industrialist John D. Rockefeller described the evolution of his thinking that led to the recognition of prohibition's failure, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States">in a famous 1932 letter:

    "When Prohibition was introduced, I hoped that it would be widely supported by public opinion and the day would soon come when the evil effects of alcohol would be recognized. I have slowly and reluctantly come to believe that this has not been the result. Instead, drinking has generally increased; the speakeasy has replaced the saloon; a vast army of lawbreakers has appeared; many of our best citizens have openly ignored Prohibition; respect for the law has been greatly lessened; and crime has increased to a level never seen before."

In the context of today's leading prohibition -- the drug war -- it's important to realize that those other drugs were made illegal even before alcohol was. It was December 17th, 1914, when the Harrison Narcotics Act passed the US Congress -- ostensibly a regulatory law to synchronize America's system with a new one being adopted by countries around the world. But law enforcement interpreted it as prohibiting drugs -- coca and opium, and derivatives of them such as heroin and cocaine, were the ones in question then -- and law enforcement got its way. Which means that drugs have been illegal for almost a century. And yet despite a century of prohibition -- a century of fighting opium -- the Taliban could somehow make a hundred million off of it last year, that's how much of it is still being used.

Our addiction rate in the US is http://www.csdp.org/publicservice/zogby07foot.htm">higher today than it is believed to have been at the turn of the 20th century, and while other things that have certainly changed that could affect drug use, if you're fighting a "drug war" to end drug use, if addiction goes in completely the opposite direction, then you have a problem. A recent example of things going in the completely opposite direction as intended is cocaine prices on the streets of our cities, which according to DEA data is about http://jec.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=6d3a257d-b06a-4339-aa2d-cd55d61693e3">a fifth of what it was in 1980 when adjusting for inflation and purity. The goal of the eradication-interdiction-arrest-incarceration strategy is to raise prices, in order to discourage use. Oh, and the drugs have gotten worse too -- who had ever heard of crack cocaine before 1986 -- 72 years after passage of the Harrison Act?

Marijuana prohibition, enacted in 1937, is an even less successful experiment than opiate and cocaine prohibition. For the harder drugs one might say at least that some young people have trouble getting them, although that's really just the kids who aren't into drugs. But marijuana can be purchased by virtually any high school student in the country, at virtually any high school in the country, and generally from other students. When kids are dealing drugs to other kids, and that is happening everywhere, what is the result of the experiment? What is its conclusion? Is further research really necessary at that point? No, it's not. The findings are on the drug prohibition experiment are conclusive -- it's a failure. And while many of the people waging the drug war believe it's noble, that belief is misguided -- with half a million people incarcerated in US jails and prisons for drug offenses, the prohibition experiment is anything but noble. The day we legalize drugs is the day we can begin to clean up the mess that the drug prohibition experiment has created.

http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/89852/?ses=dc9a6514b38d5f5892b29770dca92d30">LINK

- The illegal drug laws will probably never be declared a failure. If change ever comes at all, it will only come about as a result of the demands from citizens telling our government to stop wasting our money. And we know how well that idea has worked in the past, now don't we? Because there are too many who have become, and remain enriched through its prohibition. The rest who continue to support prohibition for so-called "moral reasons," are just plain stupid.

Rockefeller thought it was bad back then? He didn't have drive-by shootings killing babies and children in their own homes. He didn't experience drug cartels whose wealth would put them in the exclusive Fortune 500, and who could probably damn-near buyout Standard Oil. Well, maybe beofre Bush anyways. And he sure as hell didn't see insurgent and rebel groups fund entire wars against elected governments, solely from cocaine and marijuana proceeds.

And yet we have all of this. But nothing changes...

========================================================================
DeSwiss

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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Until it is no longer profitable, politically or financially
Until then, it's a Sacred Cow.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. I was going to say as long as corporate prisons want to remain in business.

off topic:
OMG - term limits are not "God's law"?
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. Until illegal drugs stop killing people
I was in Long Island yesterday and was reading their weekly and it seems the drug of choice for high school students is heroin as it is cheaper and the high lasts longer than cocaine and pot. In some of the high schools the students interviewed estimated about 80% users. They generally last about a year before ODing or almost ODing; they certainly wreck their lives with it. Some students start it to come down from coke highs. Others think if they just snort it, they can control it.

My son says that about 75% of the kids at his school smoke pot. There are apparently two kinds, one is much more expensive and it is "white". These are genetically engineered products that have way more THC than most Boomers might remember from their glory days.

I personally don't care if adults wish to smoke pot. I have some close personal friends who indulge for various reasons although I do not. They tell me that yes, it is addictive. However, the addiction argument is not good enough for me when I consider that alcohol and tobacco are also legal and addictive and tobacco has been engineered to be more addictive and has had lots of bad crap added to it (in cigarettes). Pot also does have resins and tar in it and can't be good for the lungs.

I don't know why hemp in general is banned.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. The drug you refer to kills *because* it is illegal..
Just as alcohol would kill far more kids if it were illegal.

At least that's what happened the last time alcohol was made illegal.



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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Are you saying that heroin is only
a bad drug that kills people because it is illegal? I don't understand.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. If you look up the long term health effects of pure heroin and pure alcohol
You will get a major surprise. Heroin is a far more benign drug to abuse than alcohol.

http://www.nzdf.org.nz/heroin-opiates

Pure opiates, such as pure heroin, are relatively non-toxic to the body. However, heroin bought from the illicit market and homebake are usually cut with other substances, such as caffeine and sugar, and some of these additives can be very poisonous. Not knowing the purity and therefore, not knowing how much to take, can lead to overdose.


Long-term effects: The long-term effects of opiate use include irregular menstrual cycles, constipation, infertility and loss of sex drive. In addition, long-term and heavy opiate users tend to spend less money on housing, food and other essentials, which can lead to malnutrition and increased susceptibility to infection.





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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. i have been taking methadone daily for over 10 years due to chronic pain.
i started with oxyrush, but it's very expensive. when i lost my health insurance, my dr. switched me over to methadone. my monthly fix is about $35- i take 50-70mg. per day, in 10mg. caplet form.
i suspect that i may be taking it for the rest of my life, due to irreversable mechanical damage to my spine from ankylosing spondylitis. i also take vicoprofen(hydrocodone/ibuprofen) almost daily for migraine headaches. i also use pot, but i haven't had any alcohol since starting the pain meds.

so far so good.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I hope it continues to work for you..
You are lucky, a lot of doctors simply refuse to prescribe adequate pain relief since they are often closely monitored (harasssed) by the DEA.

It's really amazing how thoroughly the American public has been brainwashed about "drugs", almost no one realizes that opiates are actually pretty safe and remarkably non toxic to the body.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. people have asked me if i'm afraid of becoming addicted...
Edited on Tue Jul-01-08 07:42 AM by QuestionAll
but since i'll probably be taking them for the rest of my life- addiction isn't an issue.

the fun part is when you need to find a new dr., and pretty much the first question you have to ask their receptionist is if the dr. prescribes narcotics.

thanks for the kind thoughts.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. I've been using hydrocodone/ibuprofen for the past 3 weeks for dental work
It does work wonders for staving off that type of pain ... more so than pot, which is top notch for some things, not so effective for others.
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Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Eilen, your figures are not accurate.
75% smoke pot? No chance.
Using the students impressions and estimates to determine usage levels is a really bad idea.

As a rough estimate, there are 20,000 total drug related deaths each year in the US- total. Tobacco directly kills almost 500,000 a year.

Where do you think we should be investing our money?
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. I was citing my son
who goes to school there, and perhaps 75% of the people he knows use pot. They hide it in the loose bricks behind the school. All the school's cameras are pointed at the front of the school. The athletes do not use pot because they are tested. Other kids don't use it because they think it makes high people sound and behave stupid and they don't wish to lose control of themselves-- they like being straightedge (irt to drugs and alcohol).

I did not claim as fact that 3/4 of my son's school uses, just that he said 3/4 's does. Also, the paper where I read about the highschools that are rife with heroin users in high to middle income suburban Long Island... the kids call their school in Levitown "the heroin capital of Long Island" although Massepequa and other local schools also have a high amount of users. The police are aware of higher numbers of kids ODing on it. I am sure not all the kids (hopefully not 80%) are using heroin but I am sure they are using something else. The heroin cost from $8-$10 a bag. The brain builds up tolerance and eventually they need more.

I was not calling for investing money or anything like that, just wish that drugs like heroin, meth, cocaine, ecstasy, and GBH were kept away from teenagers.

I don't smoke either and lost my father from lung cancer. Tobacco kills more people most likely because it is legal and you can purchase it at any store. Maybe if we made tobacco as illegal as those drugs the death rates will go down to 20,000 as well. But then that would be counter to the opinion of the OP.

I don't care about adults deciding to smoke pot (so long as it is not at work-particularly critical work--or probably driving), I don't think it healthy for kids who's brains are still developing and that are still very risk -o-philic.

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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. "genetically engineered". Wrong. The term is CULTIVATED.
More THC = more active ingredient per gram = less fiber smoked = better for the lungs.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. GE/cultivated --semantics
Edited on Mon Jun-30-08 09:30 AM by eilen
basically using genetics to create a stronger drug.

I don't know that people actually smoke less of it. Just by casual observation, increased concentration or quality has not made people use less of anything, It's human nature. They increased the nicotine in cigarettes and that didn't slow the smokers down. The only thing slowing them down now are taxes (price) and a hostile public campaign (social ostracism).

However if an adult wishes to grow their own in the basement or backyard for recreational use at home, I have no issues with that.

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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. Modern methods of GE are not only semantically different from cultivating.
You are comparing DNA manipulation on a micro level to selectively breeding specific plants based on traits they possess.

Point 2: Most people I know do not drink the same amount of STONE IPA (9+% alcohol) as they do Guinness (around 5 or 6% alcohol).

Point 3: "Social ostracism" does not slow smokers down.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. you really should educate yourself.
"Pot also does have resins and tar in it and can't be good for the lungs."

pot acts as a bronchial dilator- it actually makes you breathe easier- it used to be prescribed to asthmatics. there has never been a documented case of lung cancer attributed to pot smoking, and there are even recent studies that suggest that it may have a preventative effect on cancer/tumor growth.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. I want what you're smoking.
Geez louise.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. I grew up with the saying that
Prohibition had produced a nation of alcoholics. While that is not literally true, here is truth in that sentiment.

However, drug laws as they exist now are a somewhat different matter. The draconian "Rockefeller" laws have produced a nation of incarcerated that have had no effect whatsoever on drug use. I've read more than one book about those unjustly imprisoned because of those laws. I know, both from my own experience and what I've observed around me, that experimenting with marijuana is not necessarily a gateway to using of harder drugs. Indeed, the real gateway drug is tobacco, and even the most hardened anti-tobacco people rarely connect it to the usage of harder drugs.

In the end, what matters is how drug usage of any kind affects others. There is a need for laws that prohibit driving of cars (or op[rating any mahcinery while impaired. Other than that, most drug usage is a victimless crime. If we had sensible sanctions in place, we'd have no need for strict laws which imprison innocent persons.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
7. It will continue forever, the Prison Industrial Complex knows how to make money.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. Until we as a nation say in a loud voice...
Until we as a nation say in a loud voice "Enough is ENOUGH!!!"


Can't happen soon enough IMO.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
17. There will always be authoritarian minded people who seek to "help" society via this phony "war."
Years ago I recall talking with a young woman who was about to graduate college, and she wanted to go into the police force specifically to help "get rid of drugs." She didn't have a negative personal experience that prompted her, just had clearly bought into establishment propaganda hook, line and sinker. Hell, there are elementary schools that encourage little children to narc on their parents over weed, for crying out loud...so until the national debate/platform can be removed from the hands of vested interests {who make big $ on America's various phony war$} attitudes won't change enough to apply the necessary pressure on this antiquated, draconian method of dealing with the surplus populace.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
20. Great plank for the the Democratic Party and Obama
to run. Will ensure a landslide election.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
22. Oh, I don't know. For some reason "100 years" comes to mind...(nt)
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