WW3is beginning to look a lot like WW1. Did Iran shoot our Archduke or something ?

Why the fuck would we go to war with Iran? What? Weapons of mass destructions???!!!!

Does Pakistan not have their nuclear bomb anymore or something? What is going on? This isn't even logical. This isn't a sports match. This is going to be millions of people. If they shoot off the bunker busters they're going to kill more people from nuclear dust in one day then in the entire Iraq war.

Over fucking what?

I mean. OVER WHAT???

There is no logic.

If Israel says that they don't want war with Iran, the USA would back completely away from the idea. As long as Israel adheres to their preemptive war doctrine, many US politicians will feel the need to pander to their aggressive foreign policy.

the widespread idea that Israel dictates U.S. foreign policy, is absurd on its face. Does AIPAC have undue influence? Sure, but that's not the same thing as believing that the U.S. is a puppet of Israel.

I never said that AIPAC is influencing American policy. It's really the indirect effect of trying to look hawkish and not completely passive. The most cited reasons for why we should hate Iran always revolve around Israel. Ahmadinejad denies the holocaust. Tehran is funding Hezbollah. Ahmadinejad called Zionism something bad. He doesn't believe that a state of Israel should always exist. He's not saying this about Florida, he's saying this about Israel. Yet the statements are treated by politicians as if he is talking about one of our 50 states.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1582220/John-McCain-Israel's-enemies-threaten-us-all.html
"John McCain: Israel's enemies threaten us all"

Here's a great example: Seriously? Do all of Israel's enemies REALLY threaten us all? Of course not. Yet you have the leader of one of the two major political parties in the US pushing this as a legitimate talking point.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/06/06/2008-06-06_minister_israel_will_attack_iran_if_it_d.html
"Minister: Israel will attack Iran if it doesn't abandon nuclear program"

An example of a preemptive war doctrine that should have died when Hitler committed suicide.


Let's just say that Israel won't be asking us to use restraint if Bush thinks that he should bomb Iran.

I welcome this debate with open arms. :patriot:

But why the Israel factor? Why are the US so 'in touch' with Israel.
Is it the 'born-again' Bush? The Holy Land and all that?

Can't be (all of it). For decades the US have been protecting and aiding and covering up for Israel.

It all gives that vague feeling that it's their little brother that knows a dirty secret so they must play nice, no matter how much of a mess the little brother makes out of it.
What could a secret like that be, I wonder? That Israel is actually the biggest foreign US Army base in the world?

Hmm...

AIPAC: I wish we Dutchmen had such a strong lobby, that would allow us to bomb the Belgians and the Germans, and get away with it every time. We could also clog up the Port of Rotterdam, so millions of people coulnd't get fed. We'd build a wall around a couple of provinces that don't cough up enough tax. It's like facism, but then under a cover of holiness.

to suggest that perhaps Israel should try to get along with its neighbors in the Middle East. John McCain rationalizes it as the US keeping their promise made to Israel decades ago that another Holocaust won't happen on our watch. That argument doesn't make sense to me. Isn't Israel sitting on about 150 nuclear weapons? I think that's a big enough deterrent.

This one will have Made In The USA all over it. Fucktards.

both as regards getting on with Israel, and with one another.

But bombing them isn't the way forward.

I am against treating Iran as a bogeynation; but also against treating Israel as a bogeynation.

I am in favour of an overwhelming defeat for John McCain.

Israel is but one part of the problem.

Israel and the U.S. relationship with it, is certainly part of our foreign policy mess, but the U.S. would have gone to war against Iraq regardless. There's plenty of evidence of that- from junior's personal animosity toward Saddam Hussein to the little matter of oil.

AIPAC is but one driving force.

The US might have gone to war with Iraq regardless of Israel's influence but it certainly has had a huge impact in pushing the US in that direction.

Without the WTC falling maybe there wouldn't have been an invasion of Iraq. Which speaks to your comment as to the amount of influence Israel has on the US being in Iraq, however, I feel the Bush Administration had plans to grab oil/gas/pipeline routes be it in Afghanistan or Iraq and would have found a way to launch a war regardless.

This IS Israel.

:hug:

Yes, it's Israel. Unless you're granting that country supernatural powers of evil, it's still ridiculous to conclude that Israel dictates U.S. foreign policy. The symbiotic relationship between Israel and the U.S. is not a healthy one or beneficial to either country, but it's simple minded to conclude that Israel is the puppet master and the U.S. government simply dances to its tune.

And one could substitute Britain for Israel in your post!

'If Israel says that they don't want war with Iran, the USA would back completely away from the idea.'

Like when France and Germany said they didn't want war with Iraq, the USA backed completely away from the idea. Oh wait...

If the USA wants war with Iran, they will have it. If they don't, they won't - EVEN if Israel chooses to attack Iran (which I hope and expect they won't; if they really were going to, I don't think they'd give so much advance warning, so I think it's mostly sabre-rattling). If the USA do choose to attack Iran, and the Israelis stand in their way, it will be 'Naughty Israel; we won't give you any more aid if you don't support us!'

I just hope Obama gets elected; there'll be far less chance of any further wars than if McCain does.

Focusing on how they are underground, so it won't be as straight-forward as when Israel bombed Saddam's nuclear facility in 1982.

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_weapons/nuclear-bunker-buster-rnep-animation.html

Waiting. I knew it was coming. And the assholes are gonna do it so it seems.

That's about the quality of the last "Iran tried to torpedo our ship" video Cheney released.

And if you were to look in McCain's head, you'd know why he's a Doughboy.

ON EDIT: And if you were a guy in the shower with him, you'd know "The Yanks are coming."

God, this thing just writes itself, doesn't it?