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Need a repub-to-English translation of "small business"

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JBoris Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 07:50 PM
Original message
Need a repub-to-English translation of "small business"
I was just in a semi-friendly debate about repubs and fiscal responsibility. All was going well until the neocon regurgitated a talking point that I have heard several times now, that Dem's tax roll-back for the wealthy would hurt "small business" (or, transversely, the bush tax cuts help small business). I asked her to elaborate, but she couldn't. I have a gut feeling that there is some abuse of that term going on here. Can anyone help me out?

Small Business, as defined on answer.com's Business Dictionary:
"According to the U.S. Department of Commerce, a business employing less than 100 people."
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morgan2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. the size of a business to be classified as small depends on the industry
Q. How does the SBA define a small business?

A. A small business is an concern that is organized for profit, with a place of business in the United States, and which operates primarily within the United States or makes a significant contribution to the U.S. economy through payment of taxes or use of American products, materials or labor. Further, the concern cannot be dominant in its field, on a national basis. Finally, the concern must meet the numerical small business size standard for its industry. SBA has established a size standard for most industries in the U.S. economy. The most common size standards are as follow:

500 employees for most manufacturing and mining industries

100 employees for all wholesale trade industries

$6.5 million for most retail and service industries

$31 million for most general & heavy construction industries

$13 million for all special trade contractors

$0.75 million for most agricultural industries

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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Except when a Neocon says "small buisness", they mean GE, News Corp., and Microsoft. (nt)
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Reagan's trickle-down theory stipulates
Edited on Sat Jul-12-08 08:01 PM by wtmusic
that tax cuts for those making over $2M/year will allow them to pay their housemaids, gardeners, shoeshiners, and other "small businesses" an extra dollar an hour while still not providing health care.

We all want that, don't we? :shrug:
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. Too small to afford lobbyists?
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. The average GOP thinks of it as a mom and pop store
the idealized little general store in upstate Vermont that is so picturesque that even WalMart hasn't closed it down. Although a few of these exist, mostly in the form of overpriced groceries combined with gas stations, most are either franchises or niche businesses barely hanging on. The average small business earns its owner under $50,000/year. Rolling back the plutocrat tax giveaway won't harm any small retail, manufacturing, or other business fitting the description "small."

However, the ones McCombover is yammering about are like the small construction companies that stay small by making their employees independent contractors instead of employees on the books and earning many millions a year for the head honcho. Those are the businessmen who would be hurt, and it's about bloody time somebody hurt 'em.

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Captain Angry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. The point they make is this. (as an example)
A sole proprietorship pays taxes as an individual.

That "individual" may make a significant amount of money. Therefore rolling the tax cuts back would mean the small business owner pays more.

It's one of the reasons you see some people driving around town with a weird company logo on their car. It's their car, and it's their business' car, which means it's a write-off, some of the gasoline is a write-off, etc.

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Very few sole proprietors are wealthy.
I've been one for 30 years and have payed 15% self-employment tax (both halves of it) myself every year.
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Captain Angry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yep.
But the ones that are incredibly wealthy are the ones who are pushing the cuts.

As I understand it, you could set yourself up as a sole-proprietorship that owns land with oil on it, and then resell the oil leases to your own real company that does the extraction. So you're a billionaire, and you make money from the company. As the leases are handled, no risk passes through to you.

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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. If you're doing that well, you can set up as a S corp...
or a regular corporation.
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JBoris Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wow it seems that there are quite a few ways to call BS on this one! I'll have to choose carefully..
Edited on Sat Jul-12-08 08:16 PM by JBoris
to get through to low-info voters.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Exxon-Mobil-Texaco-BP-Shell -Enron- and many others n/t
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Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. Small business Adm. table of small business size standards
Edited on Sat Jul-12-08 08:14 PM by OurVotesCount-Ohio
Small business standards vary in size from what I understand. It appears there are monetary limits for some and in some cases employee limits. Some appear to have a set limit for both. I saw the numbers go as high as 1,000 employees although I just skimmed the file.

Here's a link:
http://www.sba.gov/idc/groups/public/documents/sba_homepage/serv_sstd_tablepdf.pdf

edited to add: as far as the tax cuts hurting the small business owner..some of those "small" businesses are not so small.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-12-08 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. It's the perception
There are lots of "small businesses" that make tons of money - small boutique legal firms come to mind. I had a friend who worked for one. She was a para legal at a small firm. The two lawyers didn't want to pay for any health care for her (they didn't have to because they were a small business) but both of the attorneys had two houses and expensive cars.

Not all small businesses are granny operations selling antiques out of their garages. You can make a hell of a lot of money and still employ uner 100 people.
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