JFK and Reagan - Two of the scariest airports in the world

Interesting slideshow of the world's 10 scariest runways. Check out #5 -- Matekane Air Strip Lesotho
-- you have to fly off a cliff and DROP to get airspeed! :scared:

http://www.travelandleisure.com/slideshows/the-worlds-scariest-runways/1

Schipol is located on billiard-table-flat land, surrounded by highrise apartment buildings and offices, and is subject to unpredictably strong winds from the nearby North Sea. I can't count the number of times I thought I was going to die flying in and out of that nightmare, when the wind would capriciously pick up a wing or slam down on the plane, just before touchdown.

St Barts, on the other hand, completes the pair of lethal airports with St. Martin/St. Maarten (you have to fly to St Bart's from St. Martin's, so it's an instant death twofer). You have to fly over the top of a mountain and then immediately power dive onto the runway on the other side, the other end of which ends in the ocean. Come in too soon, you eat a cliff, come in too late, you drown. Even better, the millionaire tourists sunbathing at nearby Eden Rock Resort get a ringside seat of the festivities.

swears that going into Hong Kong takes you between high rises. You can look into the windows of the buildings as you're screaming by.

The new one, Chep Lap Kok, is built on an artificial island out in the bay, so you don't really come in among the houses like you used to. I remember flying into Kai Tak and looking UP at people hanging laundry outside their apartments on the hillsides. It was also another airport with a runway jutting out into the sea, so you'd think you were going to land on some poor family's houseboat until the runway magically appeared at the last second. Oh, and you took off into a mountain, meaning the pilot had to do a hard right turn the second the wheels left the tarmac.

All in all, I can emphatically say I will not miss that airport.

I had a niggling feeling that they'd moved to another airport.

I took flying lessons years ago and there was a small airstrip in Renton, WA where you had to take off over the cars, gain altitude, but turn before you crunched into a big ill in front of you. That was nothing compared to what you just described!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyU9OLqQ8XA

Yeow!

You've got me on a tear. I'll be up all night looking at videos of airplanes landing in gulp-inducing locales.

If you think it looks scary from the ground, just imagine what it was like being in the plane and practically being able to tell the eye colors of people on the ground. No matter how many times I landed there, I always thought, "nope, this time we're definitely going to crash."

One was done the last night it was open - but it seemed to be more of a video to remember what the approach looked like than to show the viewer how hairy it was. I couldn't get the sense of what you're referring to, but I'm going to keep looking. :7

I also watched one of a 777 (cockpit view) landing, and I swear the stall alarm went off! It turned out they were flying into the new airport on that one.

What horrible trips those must have been for you -- knowing at the end of your flight you'd have to land THERE. Like a rock in your stomach. :hug:

Shows you how absolutely amazing our planes, and our pilots! are.

That is the most gorgeous building in the world -- at least, I thought so at the time.

But the bus ride to Kowloon took a very long time after our 12 hour flight from the US West Coast.

Jet lag nightmare.

Kai Tak was practically smack dab in the middle of Tsim Sha Tsui (which only added to the sense you were landing on a street rather than at an airport.) Chep Lap Kok is gorgeous, but it's definitely a large modern airport. And like most modern airports, it's miles out of town.

Maybe because it sounds like "chop suey" and I wanted to say it better than other Americans.

We ended up winding down little streets and going into restaurants where we pointed to things people were eating. Lots of people speak English there, but at the level of eating, we were definitely challenged. I had a lot of vegetables and had the best time choosing things I'd never heard of nor that we will probably ever eat again.

One day we took the train and had a lunch of chicken, rice, and -- a very salty egg. It was delicious.

We did a day trip via ferry to one little island where they don't allow cars and ate outside at... Fat Jerry's ??? Jerry had gotten pretty thin by that time. The food was wonderful, especially their vegetable fried rice. The scene was amazing... people living on their boats carrying out their days on the water. The only thing that rendered the scene a little disturbing was the many black rubber tires they used on the sides of their crafts to keep from bumping into each other. Ugly at best.

One trip took us to the zoo in Canton to see the panda bears. They were sleeping and never came out of their lairs. However, WE were the main attraction to the Chinese children had probably never seen a "round eyed" person. We offered them small wrapped candies, and some of them responded "Thank you" in English and gave us big smiles. Not many tourists there, but about a million bicycles! Many people attempted to speak English with us, but the accents gave way to hand gestures. We took a bus trip to the New Territories and saw a lot of empty government buildings. The guide told us that Chinese children learn English as a second language in school.

I wish we could go to Beijing for the Olympics. That would be amazing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al_Flight_1862

Wiped out part of an apartment complex near Schipol.
I was flying the same model for Nippon Cargo Airlines, so was pretty 'concerned' about what caused the crash.

Later learned that corroded fuse pins that hold engine pylons on wings were to blame.
http://corrosion-doctors.org/Aircraft/el-al.htm

north of New York City I believe.

I don't recall the airline or the other grim details, but it ploughed into homes. The photos of the scene in the NY Daily News and NY Post were pretty scary. They listed all the names of the passengers and homeowners who were KILLED or MAIMED and told their stories. It was heartbreaking and of course, the way that it was covered was so sensational that you could feel it applied to the you -- random people mowed down by an airplane.

My husband Audio Al used to tell me that most crashes are due to pilot error, not to mechanical problems. But maybe that has changed with the aging of the fleet, the outsourcing of maintenance to others, less concern from employees about their jobs, and of course, that wonderful photo that you can see every tiny dot which represents a plane currently in the air. Add that to the firing of the air traffic controllers and the burnout of them and their replacements. But I can't worry about that. Not likely to happen to me.

Now, the crowded airspace problem and location of airports and flightpaths -- that's kind of worrysome.

Worst of all is that Internet link that shows you all the planes in the air currently. THAT is really frightening! It's just a jumble of arrows and I forget where that link is.

Have a great week!

SeeU@theDU

Radio Lady Ellen in Oregon

During my 30+ years in the business, I attended recurrent (refresher) training every 6 months.
The very best accident avoidance lecture I heard was "Breaking the Chain".

A study by NASA showed that almost every accident/incident was not caused by some catastrophic, uncontrollable mechanical failure.
Most began with some small, seemingly inconsequential misstep which was then compounded by another small "error" and another and another.

A good analogy is the "For want of a nail, a shoe was lost. For want of a shoe, a horse was lost." And so on.

If you can just break that chain of missteps at any point, you'll avoid the accident. It works.

Don't remember the NYC crash you speak of.
Here's a good data base though:
http://www.planecrashinfo.com/database.htm

I repeat my mantra which my husband says to me as we rumble down the runway as he holds my hand. "We're just going to jump into the sky!" It is something that I will always remember.

The last flight to Charles DeGaulle airport started with an aborted takeoff out of Newark. It was a little nerve-wracking, but nothing I couldn't handle. Something small malfunctioned, and we were told that the pilot just wanted to make sure everything was OK before undertaking "the hop across the pond."

I recall flying from Boston to Miami with my son years before I took the fear of flying class. The passengers were deplaned and we were told there was a mechanical problem. David was about seven years old. I called my husband from a pay telephone at Logan airport, trying not to panic. He calmed me down and we did a little shopping. (Who wants their young son to think that Mommy's a wuss?) I gathered myself up for the sake of my child.

About 1 1/2 hours later, we were reboarded and took off with no problem. As I've stated before, I don't ever feel that landing will be a problem (opposite from most panicky passengers who appear to be more frightened of landings).

The other mantra that we were taught was:

"Turbulence is uncomfortable, but not usually fatal."

I use a thought-stopping technique -- rubber band on my wrist and snapping it when my mind starts its racing thoughts.

We're going to Denver, CO in August 2008, and other travel liberally sprinkled through the winter and next spring 2009.

Thanks for your kind posts. I always enjoy reading them, Trof. Hope your summer is going well.

Cordially,

Radio Lady in Oregon

I should make up my own list but it will take a while. (lots of logbook entries to peruse)
:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_z5HtME9n8

Holy moley!

And another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAxAso8xSo0&feature=related

On the first one when the woman told the person/people with her "don't be afraid."

And the second one -- the pilot or co pilot saying "that's not fun -- I don't like this one".

What I learned from the slideshow I linked to, is that once you're on the ground you're not necessarily safely on terra firma. Having to IMMEDIATELY apply brakes or reverse thrust or whatever - so you don't roll off the end of the runway!

Yikes!

I read recently that larger aircraft have been temporarily banned from flying in/out of Toncontin :scared: :scared:

I flew on TACA...the expats I met told me they call it "Take A Chance Airlines"

because all you can see is water until the wheels touch the runway.

There was an old puddlejumper airstrip in the Smokies called Tri Cities (although there were no real cities around). It looked like a little postage stamp on top of a mountain and then you landed on it. This was back in the good old days when planes had propellers and went slower.

radio. I was a fearful flier (or flyer... I think) for most of my early adult life, and used to travel by train or car. Strangely enough, I was OK with landings, but terrified with take-offs. My cousin was an Air Force military guy and he flew his own plane until recently out of Teterborough Airport. He offered dozens of times to take me up in the sky.

Then I married a guy who had umpteen thousands of Frequent Flier miles. Later, I took the US Air "Fear of Flying" class -- nine weeks of desentization and information, including an aborted takeoff, going up in the Control Tower (neat!... of course, that was before Sept 11th, and a graduation flight from Boston to Albany, NY on a clear November night. We got a chance to sit in the copilot's seat.

Now we travel the world and I use the techniques I was taught. Very comforting. Tightening of regulations in airports has brought some stress, but by and large, no problems. I have never been in a very small plane or a helicopter. My lifelong motion sickness has stopped me from that -- I get queazy at Imax movies... had to walk out of Cinerama if you are old enough to remember that.

The pilots always say they are more afraid of driving to the airport than of the act of flying itself. Mile per mile, it's the safest, and for Hawaii, the ONLY way to get there!

Radio Lady in Oregon

and could see the fire across the harbor.

I've never been afraid of flying. My first airplane ride ended with a belly landing when the landing gear locked. I was sick and so airsick I didn't care.

I figure if there isn't one crash to a customer, at least it will be quick.

As I recall, only two passengers were killed -- or maybe they never found them. I think the families of those people sued the airline. They changed the protocol because of that accident.

Thanks for posting!

SeeU@theDU

Radio Lady Ellen Kimball

PS. Warpy, did you ever listen to radio talkmaster Paul Benzaquin? I did the show before him (10 AM to 2 PM)on WEEI-AM 590 in the 1970s. Maybe you are too young to remember that. Paul went over to WRKO or was it WHDH in the 1980s. I am still in touch with him and I believe he is in his late 80s or early 90s.

I moved to WMEX 1510 later. Same shift, but with Jerry Williams (or the Boston Red Sox) after 2PM. Once in a while, I find someone who heard me in those days.

and I remember the name from the adverts but I never listened to radio where they talked too much. I even got disgusted with WBCN and the early classical show on WGBH. They didn't blab as much on WERS and WBUR.

Cripes, I can't believe I still remember the call letters.

From: The Older and Dirt Society. I kid you not! Check it out at: http://www.olderthandirt.org/

Did I mention it earlier? I'm 69 years and..... I don't do it anymore. :hide:

You've got the Boston call letters all right. It's the FORMATS that changed constantly.

While living in Sudbury, Massachusetts, I listened to WCRB (classical) and jazz with Ron Della Chiesa on WBUR (Boston University radio). Occasionally, I'd listen to talk -- WRKO, WHDH and others, but not sports. I had a lot of cassette tapes and used the radio to decompress in the sales career I had with Clairol, the haircoloring company from Stamford, CT. I was their Technical Sales Representative for 11 years after I back out of radio (too much arguing over BS. I called it verbal masturbation.

Kind of like what we have here on the DU, only written, instead of spoken!

You're now in New Mexico? We haven't been to Albuquerque or Santa Fe for decades, but it's one of the places we considered moving to because my husband traveled there frequently on business and he like warmer weather. However, I couldn't do NM summers, so we ended up with daughter and her husband in Portland, Oregon.

We've been here ten years and really are enjoying this place. It's almost like Boston (kind of a mid-sized city) with different evergreens -- mountains to the sea. We also avoid what my husband calls "The Season of Death" -- winters in New England. Ah, but they're pretty.

"Yeah, Ellen. Go shovel the pretty!!!" is what he spit at me one day while my young stepdaughter and I were making snow angels in our front yard.

Were you there for the Blizzard of 1978? My daughter is turning 40 in October, and I'm putting together a retrospective look at her growing up in Massachusetts and Vermont. I just saw those pictures yesterday. The snow drift was up to the top of our street sign. You couldn't even make out our backyard pool... everything was just white up to the top of the fence. It was something to behold.

And if you were nervous prior to that.....

Glad you're a world traveler now.

(By the way, anesthesiologists always use that line, too -- it's more dangerous driving a car that it is going under anesthesia. :))

were in that crash, but they survived. I met Anne and Julie and learned that they never flew again.

I used another relaxation technique with general anesthesia (another former fear of mine).

The program was put together by a woman named Linda Rodgers, who is a LCSW who lives in New York state. I found out about her tapes/CDs designed for Surgical Anesthesia procedures. (You may not know Linda or her sister Mary Rodgers -- but perhaps you know their father, Richard Rodgers -- who, along with Oscar Hammerstein, created so many magnificent musicals decades ago.

It is electronic music with Linda's soothing female voice delivering affirmations. It is designed to cover all the sounds and other rigamarole while you are preparing for surgery and during the procedure. I have used it for dental surgery and other procedures. Very helpful, but the drugs have also improved dramatically since I had my tonsils out at age 4 a zillion years ago.

Here's an interesting obituary for Dorothy Rodgers, Richard Rodger's widow. She had a pretty interesting life and her daughters are mentioned.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE3DC1E3CF93BA2575BC0A964958260

Although I've never been afraid of going under the knife (my father was a surgeon), the technique just even SOUNDS soothing!

I'll check out the obit. :hi:

I had NO IDEA that she was also traumatized by anesthesia for a tonsillectomy when she was a child! That's MY story!

From: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NAH/is_n1_v27/ai_20152688/pg_4

It's been partly through the work of Linda Rodgers that scientists and physicians have become aware that the vibrations transmitted by music can positively affect a patient, or negatively affect the patient if it's the wrong music for that patient. A clinical social worker and classically trained musician from Katonah, New York, Rodgers became interested in the effects of music on surgical patients in the wake of a traumatic tonsillectomy she underwent as a child. She had become highly sensitive to the anxiety that can erupt in the face of surgery and the need to somehow defuse it.

In 1982, Rodgers went to work at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York and obtained permission to watch open heart surgery. There she began to investigate patients' ability to hear under anesthesia. She soon uncovered a wealth of research indicating that they do continue to hear, even when rendered unconscious. One of the classic experiments involved an anesthetized cat whose EEG channels all dramatically responded to the barking of a dog. "The auditory pathway, unlike all other sensory systems, has an extra relay," Rodgers explains. "Auditory fibers are not affected by anesthetics, so they continue to transmit sound. Simply stated: We never stop hearing!" And our conscious participation is not needed.

Rodgers has successfully implemented music protocols in operating rooms. To protect against patients inadvertantly hearing harmful noise or tasteless (and possibly injurious) remarks-such as "This old bag won't make it" -- during surgery, Rodgers recommends that audiotapes selected by each patient be played before, during, and after surgery on cassette players with earphones. Rodgers says that as patients learn to invoke music's powers, "It is reasonable to expect a more rapid recovery from surgery, with fewer complications, reduced number of days in the hospital, and a more positive response to coping with future medical problems."

It's all here, thanks to the Democratic Underground.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x4276085

The link to her biography is not working, but the kind words of DUers are still there, wishing me best of luck on my surgery.

So, uhm, thanks for the timely reminder. :scared:

I refuse to call it the R-word.

I was old enough to remember what happened with the air traffic controllers....

as well as some pilots - that it's not really all that scary.

I think the voting was done by passengers - not 'experts'.

When I was reading the info on "why it's harrowing" - it seemed to me that it was because of the circuitous routes they had to adapt to so they didn't cause a panic.

I just know you'll be safe! :pals:

I fly in and out of SFO, and they have some strange ones because of noise complaints.

.... DCA (or National - it will never be Reagan to me) is not that bad.


Now the airport in St. Maarten, as mentioned above, is frightful, slam-on-the-brakes landing. And San Francisco in the fog is scary 'cause you can't see the runway until you hit it.

I thought my bladder was going to burst before they finally got us up in the air and turned off the damned seatbelt light. If they know damned good and well we aren't going to hit the runway for an hour, I'd much rather sit around in the airport, instead of belted in on the plane.

Ingalls Field Airport - landing on a mountain ridge at 3792 ft.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KHSP

looks like the Nazca Lines in Peru!

thanks for sharing. :thumbsup:

RR Airport? Hmmmm...

RepubliCON Rethug Airport ?! :P

RRA ----> ?

It wasn't uncommon to drag an engine pod on touchdown.
Glad they closed it.
You can see some of the hairier landings here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf9GaUMQKEM&feature=related

flown into San Diego?

You can make eye contact with workers in this office building you fly right past.

Great pic!

I'm hijacking my own thread, but this is worth it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ546BEps-M

That's because the only place they had to put the rifle range was at the approach end of the runway.

I still cringe when I go over the 14th street bridge..Those planes come right over you! And I very much remember the Air Florida Crash back in the 80's......:scared: