Does Scalia even know the basics of law?

He keeps saying that it was Gore's fault for Bush vs Gore, that Gore was the person who took it to court.

"I didn't bring it into the courts. Mr Gore brought it into the courts."
- Scalia
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2200495/Justice-Antonin-Scalia-Al-Gore-to-blame-for-2000-US-election-mess.html

Now, my thing isn't law, but I'm pretty sure that the first party is the plaintiff, the party that brings it to court. I am right, right?

So, BUSH vs Gore, who brought it into the courts again?

No wonder the Supreme Court is so secretive, it's because Scalia is an absolute idiot!

He is doing the job he was put there for.

Step right up folks!

-Hoot

pure and simple

When a lawsuit is initially brought, you are correct -- the plaintiff, i.e., the person suing, is the first one listed on the case name. So if Smith sues Jones in court, the case would be referred to as Smith v. Jones.

Now let's assume Smith wins at the trial. Jones then files on appeal. On appeal, the person bringing the appeal gets named first. So the appeal would be called Jones v. Smith. Exactly the opposite of what it was called at the trial level. It doesn't mean Jones was the one who sued first, it just means that Jones is the one who filed the appeal. Confusing, eh?

As a factual matter, Gore was the one who first sued in Florida.

As was at the time spelled out by FL election law (Florida Election Code 102.166), when an election is close enough, any party can request a recount. This is a request which is part of the normal election procedure, NOT a legal challenge or court case. This was Nov. 9th.

On Nov. 11th, Bush sued to stop the manual recounts.

http://uselectionatlas.org/INFORMATION/ARTICLES/pe2000timeline.php

I know the whole post-election process was a cluster-F, and keeping it all straight is a monumental task. But didn't Gore sue in court after Harris certified the vote?

Are you saying Gore filed NO lawsuits in Florida state court?

I'm trying to understand, but I was always under the impression that Gore was suing to count votes in certain counties only.

My memory honestly has faded on this somewhat. I honestly can't remember when Gore took a case to court, but I believe at some point later his campaign (or Democrats or some local election board) may have challenged something on his behalf. It may have been after Harris certified the results (which would make sense). The request to recount 4 counties, though, was a request as part of the election process... although the case did end up in the FL Supreme Court

But I recall with crystal clarity who took it to court first. The election was unquestionably close, and the law as it was written at the time was inarguably clear that any candidate's campaign could ask for a recount if the results were within a certain percentage (and they were well within that). If I recall correctly, he could have asked on Day One for an entire state recount based on the closeness. Such recounts at state and local levels have been done before. But his campaign (wisely I think) chose to limit it to suspect and closer counties.

As for the FL Supreme Court, I'm really not sure if I remember this correctly, but I think the Bush case was first brought to U.S. Court, and the injunction to stop the manual recounts in the 4 counties was denied. Then a bunch of lesser issues dealing with how and whether recounts should proceed were brought to court (state and federal), by various parties (including some of the counties and both campaigns). The eventual result was the decision to allow recounts by a proscribed process by the State of FL Supreme Court, which then resulted in the challenge to the US Supreme Court by Bush, which resulted in the election going to Bush. I do note in the timeline that the Bush campaign again sued (joining a suit by Katherine Harris of all people) to stop the manual recounts, again, at a later date.

Bush sued first, and was suing at every step to stop the recounts, which were allowed by law. Gore was suing to continue the recounts, which was the only recourse he had once Bush sued.

But he took it to the State of Florida courts where it belongs. Bush and his minions took it directly to Federal Court where they made the ridiculous argument that the recount should stop because it could materially harm George Bush. Of course, by stopping the recount, it materially harmed Al Gore, but that argument was never made because it is ridiculous on the face of it. What is also ridiculous on the SC part is that the recount was a State's rights issue, the election laws are governed by State law. And by State law, a recount should have been granted.

I'm not even a lawyer, but I know that much. I guess I is learning.

I became VERY familiar with FL election law at the time, as a concerned FL resident (all of these codes have been rewritten now). It was within his right as a normal part of the election process to request a recount. This is not done as a court challenge, it is simply a request to the counties; and it was granted.

Then Bush sued in court to stop it.

:rofl: :hi:

And the SC decision and entire argument WAS ridiculous.

BUt because it was state law, it did not NEED to go to court. The State of FL process was just playing out, according to state law, and a recount was being conducted, according to state law. The Bush campaign didn't like that, so they took it to court.

I just get really peeved when a SC Justice of all people can parrot what is becoming conventional wisdom, that Gore took it to court.

counting the votes. I knew Gore went to state court at some point. And just to add the machine counts were bogus. The whole thing was a major crime scene.

Bush wanted to stop the recounts under Florida law, as sanctioned by the Florida Supreme Court. To do so, he took the position that the recount under Florida law should be stopped, because the lack of sufficient guidelines for the recounting amounted to an infringement of the constitutional right of citizens. Where the typical GOP Supreme Court justice would reject this notion out of hand, the GOP on the court in 2000 went out of its way to take the case, to impose its will, and to shut down the recounts.

Scalia is a liar. Mr. Bush filed the federal court action, not Mr. Gore.

we need a filibuster proof Senate. Let's work for it!

Even had Gore filed first, so what? There is nothing wrong with filing if he had a case.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.