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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 07:00 PM
Original message
Bill Moyers on How Money is Choking our Democracy to Death
Edited on Sun Jul-20-08 07:42 PM by Time for change
I have long felt that the role of money in American politics – which I call “legalized bribery” – is terribly destructive of our democracy. I’ve ranted about this issue in numerous previous DU posts. Here is a brief summary of what I’ve had to say on the subject in my previous posts:

The role of money in American politics is a pernicious system that perpetuates itself. Big moneyed interests “donate” (actually ‘invest’ would be a more accurate term) large amounts of money to politicians, and in return those politicians enact legislation that helps those interests to get more money, at the expense of the public, thereby enhancing their wealth and power and enabling them to continue to feed the beast.

When powerful private corporations give big money to public legislators (or other public officials) in return for legislative favors, a reasonable person would call that bribery – notwithstanding the fact that it is usually legal in our country today. The only differences between such acts that are deemed legal and those that are deemed illegal involve the explicitness with which the deal is made. When public officials become so careless that the deal is spelled out in black and white, as was the case with Duke Cunningham, Bob Ney, and Tom DeLay, they can be prosecuted for bribery. But when, as in most cases, it is not so obvious that the acceptance by public officials of tens of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions was done in return for helping to enact corporate favorable legislation, it is legal. Why is that?

Defenders of this type of bribery claim that lobbying involves “educating” legislators and exercising our First Amendment rights to petition Congress. But does our First Amendment include the right to pay (i.e., bribe) legislators to be educated? What if it was made illegal to give large amounts of money to public officials? In other words, what if corporations were allowed to continue to “educate” our public officials but not allowed to bribe them? Would they then continue to devote time, effort and money to “educating” them?

The recent vote on the FISA amendment should serve as a stark reminder of how bad our situation is. It shows that even our Constitution is for sale. Jonathon Turley notes that the major telecom companies poured money into Congressional campaigns to influence their vote on this issue. And an analysis of those votes showed that those Congresspersons who voted “yes” on the FISA amendment which gave the telecoms immunity from lawsuits received twice as much money from the telecoms over the past three years than those who voted “no”.

Nobody whom I’ve ever read or heard speaks about the problems of our democracy as well as Bill Moyers does. So for this post, instead of doing more ranting on the subject, I’ll quote a few things that Moyers has to say about it. These quotes come from Moyers’ book, “Moyers on Democracy”. They were made during a speaking tour/ lecture series titled “Saving Democracy”, in California in February 2006:


On rising inequality in the United States

Moyers discusses rising inequality in our country before specifically getting into how money in politics influences that inequality. He notes that policy makers hear the voices of the wealthy while ignoring the voices of the rest of us, and that consequently the top 1% has gained more than the bottom 50% in the past four decades, while “whole communities are languishing in unemployment, crumbling infrastructure, and fear”. Commenting on this rising inequality, Moyers says:

This is a profound transformation in a country whose DNA contains the inherent promise of an equal opportunity at life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and whose collective memory resonates with the hallowed idea of government of the people, by the people, and for the people. The great progressive struggles in our history have been waged to make sure ordinary citizens, and not just the rich, share in the benefits of a free society. Yet as the public today supports such broad social goals as affordable medical coverage for all, decent wages for working people, safe working conditions, a secure retirement, and clean air and water, there is no government to deliver on those aspirations. Instead, our elections are bought out from under us… So powerfully has wealth shaped our political agenda that we cannot say America is working for all of America. In the words of Louis Brandeis, one of the greatest of our Supreme Court justices: “You can have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few or democracy, but you can’t have both.” Money is choking democracy to death.


Some notes about how our current system works to destroy democracy

Moyers explains that the root of the problem is that our elected representatives in Congress need huge sums of money to finance their campaigns and remain in office. As a result of this:

Men and women who have mastered the money game have taken advantage of that weakness in our democracy to systematically sell it off to the highest bidders. Let’s start with the K Street Project… the brainchild of Tom DeLay and Grover Norquist, the right wing strategist who famously said that his goal is to shrink government so that it can be “drowned in a bathtub.” This, of course, would render it impotent to defend ordinary people against the large economic forces – the so-called free market – that Norquist and his pals think should be running America….They centralized in their own hands the power to write legislation. Drastic revisions to major bills were often written at night, with lobbyists hovering over them, then rushed through as “emergency measures”…

The Gilded ages – then and now – have one thing in common: audacious and shameless people for whom the very idea of the public trust is a cynical joke…Having cast our ballots in the sanctity of the voting booth, we go about our daily lives expecting the people we put in office to weight the competing interests and decide to the best of their ability what is right…

Twenty-five years ago Grover Norquist had said that “What Republicans need is 50 Jack Abramoffs in Washington…” Well, they got it, and the arc of the conservative takeover of government was completed… Money, politics, and ideology became one and the same in a juggernaut of power that crushed everything in sight…

This crowd in charge has a vision sharply at odds with the American People. They would arrange Washington and the world for the convenience of themselves and the transnational corporations that pay for their elections… The people who control the U.S. government today want “a society run by the powerful, oblivious to the weak, free of any oversight, enjoying a cozy relationship government, and thriving on crony capitalism

Why not call this system what it is? Moyers explains the system in a straight forward manner:

We have lost the ability to call the most basic transaction by its right name. If a baseball player stepping up to home plate were to lean over and hand the umpire a wad of bills before he called the pitch, we’d call that a bribe. But when a real estate developer buys his way into the White House and gets a favorable government ruling that wouldn’t be available to you or me, what do we call that? A “campaign contribution”.

Let’s call it what it is: a bribe.


There are no victimless crimes in politics

Moyers repeats more than once in his speech that “There are no victimless crimes in politics. The price of corruption is passed on to you.” He provides plenty of detailed examples to make that point. Here is a pretty good summary paragraph:

Look back at the bulk of legislation passed by Congress in the past decade: an energy bill that gave oil companies huge tax breaks at the same time that Exxon Mobile posted $36 billion in profits and our gasoline and home heating bills are at an all-time high; a bankruptcy “reform” bill written by credit card companies to make it harder for poor debtors to escape the burdens of divorce or medical catastrophe; the deregulation of the banking, securities, and insurance sectors, which led to rampant corporate malfeasance and greed and the destruction of the retirement plans of millions of small investors; the deregulation of the telecommunications sector, which led to cable-industry price gouging and an undermining of news coverage; protection for rampant overpricing of pharmaceutical drugs; and the blocking of even the mildest attempt to prevent American corporations from dodging an estimated $50 billion in annual taxes by opining a post-office box in an offshore tax haven…


Taking back our democracy

Moyers ends his speech on a hopeful note:

I have painted a bleak picture of our political process. I believe it is a true picture. But it is not a hopeless picture. Something can be done about it. Organized people have always had to take on organized money. If they had not, blacks would still be slaves, women wouldn’t have the vote, workers couldn’t organize, and children would still be working in the mines…

It is time to fight again. These people in Washington have no right to be doing what they are doing. It’s not their government, it’s your government. They work for you. They’re public employees – and if they let us down and sell us out, they should be fired… They would have you think that if they pass a few nominal reforms, put a little more distance between the politician and the lobbyist, you will think everything is okay…

Look what happened in Connecticut… The legislature passed clean-money reform… The bill bans campaign contributions from lobbyists and state contractors and … approved full public funding for their own races… Both Arizona and Maine offer full public financing of statewide and legislative races… In these places… the system allows candidates to run competitive campaigns for office even if they do not have ties to well-heeled donors or Big Money lobbyists…

Nationally we could buy back our Congress and the White House with full public financing for about $10 per taxpayer per year… It would go a long way towards breaking the link between big donors and public officials and to restoring democracy to the people. Until we offer qualified candidates a different source of funding for their campaigns – clean, disinterested, accountable public money – the selling of America will go on…

Representative Barney Frank says of Congress: “We are the only people in the world required by law to take large amounts of money from strangers and then act as if it has no effect on our behavior.”…

As long as elected officials need that constant stream of cash, someone will run our country but it won’t be you… The real answer is federal financing of Congressional elections… This isn’t about a few bad apples. This is about the system. We can change the system…

Theodore Roosevelt said in 1912… “We are standing for elementary decency in politics. We are fighting for honesty against naked robbery. It is not a partisan issue… it is a great moral issue… If we condone political theft… our civilization cannot endure.”

We need that fighting spirit today – the tough, outraged, and resilient spirit that knows we have been delivered the great and precious legacy, “government of, by, and for the people”, and by God we’re going to pass it on.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Political theft is condoned today in lockstep fashion: it is the modus operandi
of 'pukedom. :D
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yes
It's the only way they can win.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bookmarked for later reading.
:kick:
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. Great stuff, thanks!
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LeahD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
5. K & R & Bookmarked. n/t
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. KRBK!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
7. Why Moyers changed his mind and decided to speak out about money in politics after the 9-11 attacks
Moyers speaks and writes a great deal on this subject. He had some speeches planned in the fall of 2001, but after the attacks on our country he had second thoughts about continuing his speaking tour:

It just didn't seem timely to talk about money and politics while the country was still in mourning. But I began to notice some items in the news that struck me as especially repugnant amid all the grief. In washington, where environmentalists and other public interest advocates had suspended normal political activities, corporate lobbyists were suddenly mounting a full court press for special favors at taxpayer expense.... Visions of newfound gold danced in the heads of lobbyists. And in corporate suites across the country CEOs were waking up to the prospect of a bonanza born of tragedy. Within 2 weeks of 9/11 the business press was telling of corporate directors rushing to give bargain priced stock options to their top executives... Stocks had fallen sharply after the attacks... As stock options grant executives the right to buy shares at that low price yor years to come, the lower price when options are awarded, the more lucrative they are... One company had begun laying off employees just hours before the terrorists struck; the chairman, nonetheless, helped himself to 602,589 options just two weeks later.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
8. Our nation is like a spoiled brat teenager. We thought we knew it all.
At our ridiculously young age of about 230 years, we became like a petulant, arrogant, know-it-all teenager. WE knew everything. WE "knew" that we could stay up all night, party, spend our allowance without saving, and still party the next day like there was no tomorrow. We created a system, Representational Democracy, that actually WORKED, and all those ancient old farts in socialized Europe -- our lineage, in fact -- were simply wrong. Stupid. Socialism sucks, our system is the best, and if you don't agree we'll hold our breath and refuse to clean our rooms.

And as with virtually all petulant, know-it-all teenagers, of course we were wrong.

.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. There are, of course, also a lot of very good things about our system
We have a Constitution that goes a long way towards providing our citizens with the rights that we need to live decent and happy lives. We had a Civil Rights movement. We had a voting rights movement. We had a labor movement.

But now, everything, even our Constitution, seems to be for sale to the highest bidder -- which means the top 1-5% wealthiest people. And too many Americans don't even recognize what's happening.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. everything in the US is for sale to the Highest Bidder
it is blasphemy and shows how little people care about this country, especially those profitting from it all.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. The propaganda states emphatically that America is Great Because Everything is for Sale!
You see the people with the most money are the best in every measurable and intangible way, and if they can afford it then by golly they should have it!

We've been propagandized into a giant herd of lemmings.
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. excellent, as per usual, Time. K&R
and bookmarked for future reference.

Everyone through out this country should be made to listen to Bill Moyers.

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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
12. Great Opening Statement in your op. Clear and concise. Summarizes what
many of us try and talk about.
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. Also, Bill Moyers Journal - a Must Watch. Video & Transcript
On our mortgage crisis and its history. "It's usury."

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07182008/watch2.html



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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. Thank you for the link
Too bad we don't have more like him around.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. Moyers needs to loan me a few grand to help spread his word
If I had his money I would have lots of time to print any opinion I wanted.
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. isn't there some rock
under which you call home?

Seriously, I smell freeper.


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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. It's called irony
The moneyed talking smack about the moneyed.
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. gawd, am I slow today
Duh, SORRY. (I missed sleep entirely Sat. night and have not caught up yet. yawn.)

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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. "The moneyed" are the only people "the moneyed" will listen to...
But most will probably pay no heed until they've lost all their money.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
40. search can be instructive.
One to watch indeed, skirting the edges.
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
17. Far past time for complete public campaign financing.
Nomination by Petition, fixed spending on a fixed budget, and 90 days from start to election.

The Brits have figured it out...guess we aren't that smart.
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
20. But doesn't the public own the airwaves anyway?
Edited on Mon Jul-21-08 03:58 PM by Waiting For Everyman
The obscene amounts of money our candidates have to raise through the lobbyists' bribes goes to... who? The media?

Why?

Instead of paying the candidates' media bills ourselves, why don't we just require the major outlets to provide an equal amount of free time to the major candidates? How would that be any different from public service messages? After all, don't the media giants make enough profit off of using this public asset we license to them?

To me, that's what doesn't make sense about most campaign finance reform that I've seen.

Why should we pay the bill for the candidates, instead of simply cancelling the bill? That would put both the lobbyists AND the media giants back in their place. Let them take a "pay cut" for a change.

Anyway, that would be my proposal for it.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. That sounds like a good idea to me -- and it brings up another issue
That other issue is that we've allowed a small number of wealthy corporations to obtain a monopoly over our news media. That needs to be corrected. It's not just a matter of public financing of campaigns, but also of the biased right wing news coverage that most Americans receive.

Though I don't mind paying $10 per year for full public financing of Congressional and Presidential elections. It would be the best investment I ever made.
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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. ding ding ding ding ding!...
We are feeding the enemy (the media) through our campaign contributions. This is one of those little inconvenient facts.

When I donated to Kucinich, I had to tell myself it was so they could send out for coffee or pizza.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. Kick for more exposure n/t
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Preening Fop Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
23. The Founding Feudal Father's easily controlled two Political Party Con Game is working to perfection
The lower class has always been viewed as

rather Dim :silly: Witted.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
24. Abraham Lincoln warned of this in 1864


"We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war is nearing its end.
It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood. . . .
It has indeed been a trying hour for the Republic; but
I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes
me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war,
corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places
will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong
its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth
is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.
I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety
of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.
God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless."

The passage appears in a letter from Lincoln to (Col.) William F. Elkins, Nov. 21, 1864.

For a reliable pedigree, cite p. 40 of The Lincoln Encyclopedia, by Archer H. Shaw (Macmillan, 1950, NY). That traces the quote's lineage to p. 954 of Abraham Lincoln: A New Portrait, (Vol. 2) by Emanuel Hertz (Horace Liveright Inc, 1931, NY).

http://www.ratical.org/corporations/Lincoln.html
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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Unfortunatey, God did not grant Mr. Lincoln's wish. nt
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. We could have used a few more presidents like Lincoln and FDR
Edited on Mon Jul-21-08 06:46 PM by Time for change
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. I would include Dwight Eisenhower and his warning about "the military industrial complex".
Public Papers of the Presidents, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1960, p. 1035- 1040

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

Lincoln, FDR, Eisenhower warned us about what GWB invited onto his ticket and into the White House.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Yes, Eisenhower warned us about that, and we should give him due credit for doing so
On the other hand, Eisenhower authorized the overthrow of the democratically elected governments of Chile and Guatamala and repalacement by right wing tyrants, two decisions that were cataclysmic for those countries for decades to come. Everyone makes mistakes, but I think that those two decisions are enough to make him compare quite unfavorably with Lincoln and FDR as far as his presidency is concerned.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. Still love Lincoln . . .
Wasn't aware of that quote -- thank you ---

How sadly correct he was ---

corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places
will follow


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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
28. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, Time for change.:thumbsup:
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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
29. Everyone's known for years what's needed to be done...
...yet somehow, mysteriously, it hasn't been.
______

Here's my message to you, Mr. Moyers, which you can relay back to your CFR friends and others in high places:

I have no fighting spirit left, and I avoid outrage as much as possible, because it only results in injury to myself.

Good luck putting the genie back in the bottle. And good luck making it look like "the people" did it.

"The people" would have fought and died to preserve what we thought we had. But we couldn't risk a lapse of decorum in the officer's club, now could we, Mr. Moyers?

Don't get me wrong, Good Sir. Words are important, and yours are some of the best. I've just run short on "tough" and "resilient" and the rest of the heroic memes, and am pretty much done pretending.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. These things tend to run in cycles
FDR did a great deal to challenge the financial elite and put our country on a more equal footing. His programs and basic philosophy were so popular that they lasted almost 5 decades, with no serious opposition. It's only been since the "Reagan Revolution" that things have come undone and we've gone backwards. Genies have been put back into their bottles before, and it can/will happen again (though I may not see it in my lifetime :( )

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2275383


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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I agree, but that's not good enough...
There's a faction among the elite that doesn't want to kill the milk cow, and we're supposed to be grateful. Under this system, "they" get to decide who and what is expendable, and how far is "too far". Sometimes things get really out of hand, but no one is ever held accountable, no matter how egregious or criminal.

Now there's another genie out of the bottle -- a whole lot more people than ever before who don't belong to the "club" are on to the scam, although there's every indication that they will be able to keep that genie at bay through mindwar.

The third genie, however, not so much, and it's getting to be a bit of a wildcard. The lack of sustainability of their predatory system on a finite planet may be the final determinant. It's hard to take solace in that one either.

I hate to throw cold water, and I sincerely hope, for everybody's sake, that Obama is our new FDR, because we're sure as hell gonna need it.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Yes, we certainly are going to need it
I have ambivalent feelings about Obama, and I think he can go either way. He might be another FDR. Or, if he really believes, as he sometimes seems to, that the way to success is to be "bipartisan" and refrain from making too many waves, his presidency could be terribly disappointing.
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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. We're on the same page...
"Bipartisan" generally means that a larger deception than usual is taking place. However, things being what they are, he had to have an election strategy that didn't fly too much in the face of the sharks he swims with.

Of course, any assessment is a form of divination since the whole process is a sham. If Democrats told anything even vaguely resembling to the truth, there wouldn't be a Republican party.

That said, I think Obama is pretty much what he looks like, and his candidacy is an attempt to get back to the way the world was before we all woke up (think "Zbigniew Brzezinski"). I suspect that circumstances will dictate how much "FDR potential" manifests, though I worry that certain power arrangements may be even more intractable than in FDR's day.

The contemporary debased political rhetoric certainly gives pause, however. I mean, we already have a totally unaccountable elite; when I start hearing about faith-based initiatives administering to the proles, for some reason I have visions of Saudi Arabia. Perhaps that's paranoid, but at some point, you can't help but notice certain trajectories.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 12:49 PM
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38. It's not just our democracy . . . running things according to the yardstick of a dollar bill ...
is suicidal ---

And capitalism comes with patriarchy ---

violence comes with patriarchy ---


Let's uninvent the dollar bill and get back to Nature ---


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