Leaked photo of a detainee

no comments :cry:

http://88.80.13.160/wiki/Wikileaks

Is that less kind than torturing them first?

There is no way to tell what he experienced. It DOES NOT excuse our mistreatment of prisoners though. I was just making a point that our service members who have been captured have not been treated better than this guy.

we're supposed to be better than that. But honestly, what can we expect - we illegally invaded a country who had done no harm and were no threat to us. War Crimes all around. We just don't have the moral highground here.

Just replying to the comment "We would FREAK if someone did this to a US prisoner" comment.

I got ya.

but I do agree with you --

We invade their country --- they find out we're torturing prisoners --- and then what?

And even further here into insanity . . . we pay a "$200,000 reward" for a tip to find
the remains? How many more soldier's bodies will now have to be paid for?

Meanwhile this is the work of "TWO IRAQIS" -- and even if another 6 to 8 were involved ---

JUDGE THAT BY THE CORRUPTION OF OUR ENTIRE MILITARY AND EXECUTIVE BRANCH IN TORTURING

PRISONERS AND VIOLATING THE GENEVA ACCORDS --- !!!


I'm not sure why this was case was mentioned because, after all, how do we expect to wage an
"illegal" war on Iraqis -- torture prisoners --- and then not have comparable problems -????



Body found
On March 30, 2008, Maupin's father told local newsmedia that the remains of his son had been found. He states that an Army general had told him that DNA was used to identify the remains.<7> According to an Army statement, Maupin's remains "were recovered northwest of Baghdad on March 20, by soldiers from 1st Battalion, 21st Infantry, based out of Schofield Barracks, Hawaii, attached to 2nd Stryker Cavalry Regiment."<8> The unit called the recovery effort "Operation Trojan Honor", after the mascot of Maupin's high school, Glen Este.<9> A tip from an Iraqi citizen led to the recovery of Maupin's remains.<10> The US military reportedly paid a $200,000 reward for the tip that led to the recovery of Maupin's remains. Two Iraqis who were reportedly involved in Maupin's capture and death have been tried for other crimes and sentenced to death by Iraqi courts. According to Maupin's parents, as of April 2008 US and Iraqi authorities are currently searching for six to eight more Iraqis that they believe were also involved with Maupin's death.<11>

He was captured before the invasion of Iraq.

and have been brutalizing that nation for even longer than Iraq --

Women regularly setting themselves on fire --

Yep, you are a whack job.

maybe you think they are selling their bodies for "fun" . . . ?

Maybe you can ignore their suicides . . . ??

Or is it you have no idea what has gone on in Afghanistan . . . ??

Now we are discussing women's issues in Afghanistan? I really don't have the time scooter.

Good thing we do not torture, I would not like to see what a tortured person looks like :eyes:

What explains the same crude wire in his ear lobe? Wired his ears shut? Maybe it is self-inflicted as a form of protest. Or maybe he just likes metal.

The fact is, you don't know and are simply speculating.

Have you seen the newer released photos of our barbarism at Abu Ghraib? This is pretty tame.

But we don't know what is up with this guy. And the 'matching' ear piercing makes me wonder.

It is you we should be wondering about . . .

See the bent wire in the lobe?

And about me? Don't wonder. Its fucking true.

The outrage is okay. But please don't make up shit when you have no clue what the real story is.

Neither do I. And that's all I said.

But keep it up. Flare your nostrils at me. Whatever .......

What the hell have we done to him?!

Speculating without any data...

There are no words :cry:

............

Good thing we ignore this and sweep it under the rug, cause it might upset people and we don't want that :sarcasm:

said they have it made in GItmo..
Daily prayer meetings..
Soccer and other sports...
toilets in every cell. .. etc.
They acted like we should all be that lucky!

such reports serious.

However, I can't stress strongly enough that THIS is what we have to look at in the

people who are controlling and leading our nation --- and that includes fanatics

in our military -- and in our intelligence agencies --- anyone who would permit this

to happen.


This is sickness --- and it's begging to be cured ---

in any form of torture? Would be interesting to know what the AMA's position is regarding interrogation techniques at Gitmo and elsewhere.

to study weaknesses of prisoners and report so it could be used to frighten them ---

etc.

And, yes, doctors are used --- they were used, weren't they/? . . . to judge whether

the tortures had gone too far.


Here we are in the year 2008 discussing such things --- !!!

Cheney/Bush and their Medieval pain-filled years!!!

:cry: :mad: Why why why?!?!

Wiring the jaw like that is the only way to get it to heal correctly. If you are suggesting that this was done for "fun", why would anyone bother doing that? You could cut out his tongue or gag him if you wanted him to shut up.


GET REAL.

them from Draculas Medical School for Evil Doers.

/snark

I've heard some doctors have been brought in. There was question as to whether their ability to practice medicine in the future should be suspended.

what it is in that photo.

Perhaps his jaw was broken in such a way that made it necessary to wire it like that. Sure, you can speculate "torture" from the photograph but why would anyone bother going through all that in order to torture? Think about it. Is that an effective means of torture? If he was in the process of being tortured why did his tormentors allow a photograph to be taken of it?

tormentors seem to like taking pics.

I don't see any similar torture techniques in the photos you provided.

How do you KNOW the first one doesn't have a broken knee? And the second is obviously getting field treated for heart failure.



:sarcasm:

sometimes a cigar is a cigar. this is torture. Look at him. no spirit left.

It just doesn't make any sense that a sadist would go through that much trouble to torture. If you read further down the message thread you will find that it was self inflicted which truly surprised me. I was thinking it was the work of an army medic in the field. I was as wrong as were those who think it was torture.

Close but no cigar.

it is called the temporomandibular joint and if any part of the bone is broken right near that joint, it can be wired as shown.

And are you really asking why anyone would do this for fun? Where ya been? Abu Ghraib ring a bell? :eyes:

Please post photographs of prisoners at Abu Ghraib with their jaws wired like that.

How do I know? I have several friends who have broken their jaws. They had wiring that looked like a cage around the outside of their mouths and around the back of their heads.

My best guess is he was treated by a medic in the field.

is that this guy was tortured.

I am just wondering why someone would take the time to do all that when there are much more painful & easier ways to torture. Why not wire his balls? Why not pull off his nails with a pair of pliers?

The thing that puzzles me is why they allowed him to keep his cap if they were trying to make him uncomfortable.

I don't have the link, but it was here last week on DU.

People have been starving themselves and surviving vile efforts to force feed them ---

People have had their relatives threatened with rape, torture, murder --- etc.

sometimes before their very eyes.

for a broken jaw? Wow, those must be some shitty doctors.

Is it not possible this was done by a medic in the field? This guy was captured in Afghanistan & it appears that he has yet to be admitted to any medical facility.


All that is known about the photograph is this;

Leaked photo of a detainee with face wired, lips sewn and red eyes. According to digital camera metadata the image was taken on Feb 9, 2003 03:49:25. The 6 Aug 2004 is also mentioned in relation to this photo. Readers with information as to the status of this detainee contact usa@sunshinepress.org. Although there is a resemblance to the US Taliban supporter John Walker Lindh, the connection is superficial.

Is that how a medic in the field does it? Would it have been better to not treat him at all?

sewed up his lips . . . ???

Just how far will you go to try to push your insane ideas while trying to shield torture?

Who said I am "trying to shield torture"? Who are you trying to hang with your absurd accusations of torture? You are trying to hang an American serviceman with no other proof than a photograph. You hate the troops don't you?

who will carry it out for them ---

Our miliary courts have already imprisoned some for this torture ---

Only low-level soldiers who did their dirty work for them ---


We need to have Bush/Cheney in the international courts held responsible for this ---

That is what I replied to. You say, and I copy/paste your quote "Ever had your jaw broken? Wiring the jaw like that is the only way to get it to heal correctly."

Bull. Shit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3652014&mesg_id=3652627

ago and it involved wrapping wires around the molars and then tying the uppers to the lowers. They also left my lips unsewn so I could use a straw!

Self inflicted. As far as my "sharing their violent imaginings" whatever the hell that means, I suggest it is those who thought this was torture have a far more twisted mentality. Who the fuck would go through all that to torture someone? It didn't make sense to me & it turns out he did it to himself.

Take your tin foil hat off!

Were his relatives being threatened --- ?
Was his son being raped --- ?

Were they force feeding him --- keeping him from killing himself --- ?

Only someone under intense STRESS does harm like this to themselves ---


No -- I haven't skipped reading the thread --
but you seem to be "skipping" understanding responses which are very specific ---

There's no way to distract from this issue of torture and what this administration
and its military have done.

And, one day soon, I hope, it will be in the international courts --- with these
people be tried.

Were his relatives being threatened --- ?
Was his son being raped --- ?

Were they force feeding him --- keeping him from killing himself --- ?



Thank you for making me a target of your self righteous indignation. All I see is a picture of a guy captured in Afghanistan & photographed in febuary,2003. He has a peculiar wire contraption stuck in his face. No information on WHO he is a detainee of nor what became of him after the photograph was taken.

Have you missed Sy Hersh's reports ---

Did you not know that Congress was shown video of some of these events --- ???

Have you never read articles by the lawyers trying to represent those starving themselves?

The response by force feeding them with bloodly tubes taken out of prisoners just before

them?


You made yourself a "target" with your attempts to alibi for this photo and for torturers.

No one does anything like this to themselves unless they are under severe stress.

I did not immediately think torture when I saw that photograph. So what? You are attempting to shout me down. You are accusing individual soldiers of serious war crimes when you have NO evidence of it in this case. I do not support the administration but I sure as hell am not going to turn against our servicemen. Come back to bitch when you have evidence of any war crimes pertaining to this particular picture sparky.

Haven't you told us that this guy did this to himself --- ?

Evidently he was having a bad hair day?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3652014&mesg_id=3653247

Wake up scooter. uppityperson posted that explanation, not me.

"Ever had your jaw broken? Wiring the jaw like that is the only way to get it to heal correctly."

Which you still haven't replied to except to say yeah, well, what about in the field by a medic? "Ever had your jaw broken? Wiring the jaw like that is the only way to get it to heal correctly." is wrong. Very wrong.

then of course that begs the questions of how it got broken. This is shameful.

Why are some here trying to imply that "we" did this? Other than his own body modification
there is no sign or abuse or torture. Why did we allow him to have access to wire is the real question.

if that is what it actually is . . . ???

Self abuse on this level would be a signal that he was suffering tremendous STRESS of some kind.

We have no idea what they might have done to him to cause this STRESS ---

The fact he was out hanging with people that stone women to death, kill innocents and
all the other murder and rape that goes with his cause I'd say stress is the least of
his worries. I likely wanted to martyr himself and is now pissed because he is in
custody and can't harm the infidels or kill himself.

:cry:

While I believe this is an authentic documentation of brutality, the source does not make the claim (nor offer any evidence) that the U.S. is in any way responsible for it.

That is not the final treatment, just first aid.

No reason at all to stitch the lips shut. A wired jaw would mean a liquid diet.

...AND feed him? LOL. Why would food be necessary when you are in the middle of torturing the guy?

dishonest --

they came to be, exactly what was happening --- and there were many denials.

If this prisoner has self-inflicted this would it is in response to STRESS ....

WORSE than this . . .

Prisoners have been threatened with harm to their loved ones --

prisoners are starving themselves --- trying to kill themselves ---

Or his mouth is broken. Too many possibilities, but torture of course is at the top of the list. Torture or self-mutilation.

Why not hook his balls up to a battery? Seems like a lot of work for it to be torture. I am guessing he has yet to make it to a medical facility & a medic did that to keep his jaw intact.

FWIW that was my guess too, wired jaw from broken mouth. But if you ask me the sum of all human evil, I will tell you someone can always come up with a reason to stick a metal rod through another persons mouth to cause unbelievable pain. Perhaps this guy said something and got a broken jaw for it. Who knows.

As far as torture and logic, why would anyone do anything as torture? Just because something might seem easier to you doesn't mean it is logical.

You guess wrong as far as a medic doing that. Very wrong.

I guess he really showed them, huh?

http://wikileaks.org/
"Photo leaked from a US military computer network of a detainee held by the United States with face wired, lips sewn, red eyes and torso sacked. According to digital camera metadata the image was taken on Feb 9, 2003 03:49:25. The 6 Aug 2004 is also mentioned in relation to this photo. The facial wiring is clearly non-medical."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3634743
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E01E3DC123BF931A15752C0A9649C8B63

if you see this as medical care, you need some mental health care ---

Probably trying to defend their (sexual moral values) THAT THEY DON'T HAVE!!!!!!!

No indication of how he became injured.

I sure wasted a lot of time only to find out this was a self inflicted injury.

"Ever had your jaw broken? Wiring the jaw like that is the only way to get it to heal correctly."?

looks like there are a few here claiming two other possibilities besides torture...:

1. self inflicted

2. broken jaw

...from what I have seen and heard so far about our detainees, I wouldn't be surprised if it were torture.

THIS is how the world sees America, and no amount of MSM blackout can change that.

They must realize what peril they have placed us in, and have done so purposefully. These criminals will be the death of us all.

IM-F'N-PEACH ALREADY

That's the worst part. :grr:

It looks like battery acid.

They are worth their weight in gold...

http://88.80.13.160/wiki/Warrentless_Wiretapping_Comes_to_Canada-Canadian_Media_Censored
DREW WILSON (zeropaid)
Saturday July 18, 2008

In the United States, warrantless wiretapping has effectively become legalized for now. In Canada on the other hand, a wiretap without court approval is virtually unheard of. This is precisely what happened during a protest.

In a dramatic turn of events, it has been revealed that a wiretap was issued on several protestors of the Mohawk tribe in Canada who were protesting poverty. The news story was leaked yesterday on Wikileaks in part because of a media ban on the subject.

According to the discussion page prosecutors were trying to ban the entire story from the media, but ultimately failed to do so. From the discussion page:

shortly after 5pm, lawyers for the CBC and Mr. Brant appeared before
the same Appeals judge, along with Crown counsel. After substantial
submissions, the judge lifted her earlier stay and dismissed the stay
application altogether, ordering the publication ban lifted once more.
The appeal may go ahead in due course, but the media are at present
free to publish all the evidence heard at the preliminary inquiry.
As reported briefly today, this decision makes crucial evidence available
to public scrutiny for the first time. The preliminary inquiry dealt with
charges arising from Mr. Brant's participation in two highway and rail
blockades held by Tyendinaga Mohawks in 2007 to pressure the government
to resolve longstanding land claim and poverty-related grievances.
The documents include wiretap transcripts that feature OPP Commissioner
Julian Fantino telling Mohawk protest leader Shawn Brant in a telephone
conversation that, "your whole world's going to come crashing down"
and threatening to "do everything I can within your community and
everywhere to destroy your reputation" during the blockade which took
place on June 29th, 2007, on the AFN's National Day of Action.

Since the media ban has been, at present, lifted, the CBC on the incident:

The documents include wiretap transcripts that feature Fantino telling
Brant in a telephone conversation that "your whole world’s going to come
crashing down" and threatening to "do everything I can within your community
and everywhere to destroy your reputation" during the tense standoff between
police and aboriginal protesters at blockade sites in eastern Ontario.



Rosenthal also said the tap on Brant's cellphone was made without obtaining a
court order. Rosenthal said while the Criminal Code allows for wiretaps without
a court order in extreme situations, there was plenty of notice given about
the day of action last year.
In short, the law enforcement in charge of keeping the situation calm ordered a wiretap on the protesters without a court order. It's unlikely that the public will treat this aspect lightly because it puts into serious question just how far law enforcement is willing to go. In a country where privacy is of greater concern then in other countries, one might expect some form of outrage at some point in the near future.

This isn't the first time Canada had to deal with overreaching surveillance. In 2006, the Canadian Liberal party tabled surveillance legislation that would get internet service providers to essentially spy on their own customers among other things. Back then, the Canadian Bar Association denounced (PDF) the legislation. Ultimately, the legislation died on the order paper.

Speculation on the latest wiretapping puts into serious question how often police enforcement will actually put in place a wiretap on someone without court approval. In the United States, when the warrantless wiretapping was deemed unconstitutional, it was, in part, what set the wheels in motion to push surveillance laws in the government which, more recently, passed (though many consumer rights organizations are now suing the government instead of the ISPs at this point in an effort to strike down the law)

Whether or not this recent wiretap will spark wiretapping legislation in the government is another story - though it is notable that this is generally what happened in the United States. Either way, it would be far more difficult to get warrantless wiretapping in Canada - though it doesn't make the recent warrantless wiretap any less controversial. To add insult to injury, it doesn't help much when Canadian media outlets were additionally censored as well.


First appeared in Zeropaid as: http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9639/Warrentless+Wiretapping+Comes+to+Canada+-+Canadian+Media+Censored thanks to Zeropaid for covering this document. Copyright remains with Zeropaid.

Retrieved from "https://secure.wikileaks.org/wiki/Warrentless_Wiretapping_Comes_to_Canada-Canadian_Media_Censored"

Because of "rendition", Gitmo and Abu Ghraib most everyone, including me, will just assume WE tortured this poor person and won't bother with any effort to find out what the truth is. I hope and pray it wasn't our guys that did that to him, but my first instinct is we did.

:kick: