Impeaching Bush and Cheney now is our only option as Bush can issue preemptive pardons...

Read this and tell me we are not fucked.

http://www.slate.com/id/2195689/?GT1=38001

guns at. Us or the enemy. The real enemy.

Apparently, according to slate, he can pardon himself for anything other than impeachment.

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but...

This is surely not what the founding fathers had in mind. It's a recipe for blatant criminality. Whoops, I just robbed a bank, I'll pardon myself. Whoops, I just shot the guy running against me in the next election, I'll pardon myself.

Of course, the founding fathers did expect that impeachment proceedings would happen frequently (even if the proceedings failed just as frequently), so they never foresaw the case when a President would behave criminally for over seven years and a Congress controlled by the opposite party would refuse to impeach him.

Then again, the founding fathers never foresaw the telephone (why would they) and never foresaw that one of the first crimes Dubya committed was illegal wiretaps (they started before 9-11, almost straight after he took office). If they had foreseen such a possiblity, they'd would have figured out that a President in that position would use illegal wiretaps to collect blackmail material on the leader of the house so that she'd say "impeachment is off the table." And in that case they'd have made fucking certain that there was no way a president could pardon himself.

would amount to prior admissions of guilt. :shrug:

Interesting in the your link that civil actions are precluded. Maybe there will just be a whole load of civil actions.

In 2000, PNAC (the Project for a New American Century, consisting of all the neocons you love to hate: Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, Rumsfeld, James Ellis Bush and others) put out a policy paper. It reiterated the Cheney/Wolfowitz plan of 1992 to invade Iraq to steal its oil and use it as a beach-head to invade the surrounding countries and steal their oil.

There was a chilling phrase in the 2000 PNAC paper concerning the transformation of the US military into a gang of marauding, pillaging thugs going around the world invading countries and stealing their resources (primarily oil):



Apparently because of their own incompetence and stupidity, 9-11 happened, giving them a new Pearl Harbor (a phrase used repeatedly by the media to refer to it because of the similarities). Oh, BTW, somebody decided to run two military exercises normally conducted months apart on 9-11. If Osama had attacked on any other day but that one, at least 3, probably all 4, of the planes would have been shot down. Osama was very lucky he just happened to pick that day.

One exercise put half the USAF into Canada facing a simulated Russian attack coming over the north pole. The other used unidentified planes (transponders switched off) to simulate what Condi Lies 'R' Us said nobody could have conceived of: hijacked aircraft being used as missiles. Between those two exercises and the confusion they caused, Osama's planes gallivanted all over the sky, some of them for over an hour, without getting shot down,

One person was in overall charge of those two exercises. You'd expect it to be one of the top USAF generals, but it wasn't. So now you probably think it was one of the joint chiefs of staff, but it wasn't. Above the joint chiefs was Rummy, well-known in the Iraq war for micro-managing, but it wasn't him either. Above Rummy is Dubya, and he is well-known for playing dress-up, but it wasn't him. It was, in fact, the guy who has pointed out (to avoid legal hassles) that he's not part of the executive branch (and therefore had no valid reason for being in control of those exercises) - Richard B Cheney.

And if that 2000 PNAC "new Pearl Harbor" stuff doesn't count as a "prior admission of guilt" then nothing does. :(

:hi:

agree. I doubt it.

keep it from applying to other cases? Apparently, that all ready happened.

No question about it. It wouldn't be the first time. Any president can give preemptive pardons.

require an admission of guilt ?

There are states where governors issue pardons, post conviction, that imply an admission of guilt. But on the federal level, there is no such requirement.

We are fucked now just like we were fucked then.

... supposedly to face justice.

Perhaps other countries will do the same and kidnap Bush and send him to the Hague for trial!

Ford pardoned Nixon before Nixon was charged with anything. He probably wasn't the first, either.

... it's about time someone started paying attention..

EVERYONE Keep Talking Impeachment All Week -- This Can Help

www.talkingimpeachment.com

IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH


To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
- Abraham Lincoln
_________________________________
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
- Edward R. Murrow

When fascism come to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.
-Sinclair Lewis

in 2004 after seeing what a complete failure he was his first 4 years. THOSE are the people who should be locked away in an asylum for the rest of their miserable, gullible ignorant lives.

for example, if Rove is pardoned (and you know he will be), does Siegelman still have the right to take him to court for damages?