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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 09:59 PM
Original message
Larisa Alexandrovna: A Suggestion to FBI Investigators, RE: Anthrax...
A Suggestion to FBI Investigators, RE: Anthrax...

I had trouble sleeping last night because one question (among many) that had long bothered me for years began to resurface regarding the 2001 Anthrax attacks on this nation. I don't know (actually I doubt) if the FBI has considered something interesting about the location of the mail box used to send the letters, post-dated September 18, 2001, specifically its location. Let's examine a few facts about the letters and their envelopes before I make my suggestion, as it will make more sense once we review the data:

1. The first set of letters were sent from Trenton, New Jersey
2. At least 1 letter was dated 9/11/2001
3. The envelopes, the first batch, were post-marked 9/18/2001

#2 and #3 would suggest that the letters were both written and stuffed with Anthrax spores sometime between 9/11/2001 and the early morning of 9/18/2001.

Now let's consider that anyone having had the ability to use (and somehow obtain) powered Anthrax, would also not want to be traveling long distances with the substance. So what kept nagging me all this time is why New Jersey? Of all the places to be right after 9/11, the last place for a bio-terrorist to be would be anywhere near the tri-state area, which was by then crawling with military, FBI, police, etc. I could not get near my apartment for 3 weeks, which was on Broad St. When I finally got to my neighborhood, I was stopped several times by military officers asking to see my ID, what my purpose was, and insisting on examining my packages (food I had to go above 14th to get). And I am a blond, downtown-type, that is to say, not someone who would fit the profile of a Muslim extremist. In other words, they were stopping everyone, elderly, male, female, black, white, brown, green or otherwise. The entire tri-state area was crawling with every government agency one can thing of. So I always found the Trenton location an odd choice for a bio-terrorist, who would have to risk being stopped or risk traveling with such a lethal set of packages.

more...

http://www.atlargely.com/2008/08/a-suggestion-to.html
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. wow, not a single comment
is this a totally idiotic question i am asking? it's okay, you can so so:)
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Nah, it's late. But here's a bump. We'll see. nt
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. No, you ask a very good question.
The answer I would say would be no, not a bio-terrorist in a traditional sense but someone invisible in such a setting.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. After the 9/11 attacks, probably anyone could have been doing anything ...
and no one would have been focused on it --- too much confusion.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. True and this could be the cover.
I wonder though if there is an inside person in the FBI as well though that would keep the investigation away from investigating participants in the exercise. This is a well thought out scenario.
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. it is a very interesting question
if we had faith in the investigation, it would be a dumb question. But the thing stinks so bad, I'm not even sure anyone involved in the investigation is paying attention to any of the key details.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. She's terrific --- I love the reasoning . . . !!!
And I think she makes an excellent suggestion here . . .

I'm not that familiar with the particulars of the "letters" or how they were mailed ---

I'll have to check back on all that.


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NV Whino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
6. Interesting idea
One hopes it will be considered.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
8. It almost makes you wonder . . .
. . . if the real plan was for a false-flag terrorist attack using anthrax -- which would explain why the White House immediately started taking Cipro and why other warnings about bioterrorism started circulating even before the first anthrax letter was mailed on September 18 -- and if the WTC attack somehow intervened unexpectedly and threw off their plans until they managed to regroup.

This is a theory I toyed with a few years back but dropped because it seemed to violate Occam's razor. I mean -- two terrorist attacks? One real and one staged?

But it would resolve some of the problems in the whole clutter of MIHOP/LIHOP arguments -- the fact that there are signs the administration was prepared for and counting on a "new Pearl Harbor" to advance its goals but also that it was genuinely taken by surprise on 9/11.

I could even see a sort of semi-LIHOP scenario, in which the 9/11 plotters were allowed to remain on the loose because an anthrax attack was supposed to happen first, setting the stage for the passage of the Patriot Act, which would then lead to the triumphant unveiling of the WTC plot. Only 9/11 happened quicker than they expected, sending the whole thing off the rails.

That's pure 2 am speculation, though -- and if they ask you tomorrow, I never said it. ;-)

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I've always thought because of the targets,
it was a get in line message to the opposition but you never know how all this played out exactly. All I know is no deep or real answers will be sought. Everyone in government except a few progressives has fallen in line and has erected a fence around deep answers.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. That is the most apparent reasoning to me as well.
Edited on Sun Aug-03-08 02:07 AM by BushDespiser12
A Damocles sword hanging above those with curious notions
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
23. I think you may have figured out exactly what happened!
It's always bothered me that the Patriot Act was all ready to go immediately after 9/11 but I have no memory of any discussion before then.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. What comes to mind about New Jersey...

were the reports of Muslim-types watching the events of 9-11 unfolding and then cheering and celebrating, this was even covered by the MSM as I recall. This event about the "Muslims" could have been staged as well, and the mailing of the anthrax would have played right along with it.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. It was Israelis.
Cheering Movers and Art Student Spies: Was Israel Tracking the Hijackers Before the 9/11 Attacks?
A new article in the newsletter Counterpunch examines unresolved questions over whether Israeli agents were tracking the 9/11 hijackers before September 11th. ABC’s 20/20, The Forward, and Salon.com have all covered the story. But where’s the follow up? We speak to the author of the article, Christopher Ketcham; Counterpunch editor Alexander Cockburn, and Marc Perelman, the Forward reporter who did one of the first reports on the story in 2002.

-snip-

http://www.democracynow.org/2007/2/8/cheering_movers_and_art_student_spies
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Be very careful with this story...

this has been used to feed every negative conspiracy theory that exists about Israel. My personal opinion is that there are rogue right-wing factions within the CIA, Mossad, British, Saudi, Pakistani, Italian, Turkish, etc. intelligence groups who may, from time to time, coordinate their efforts with respect to terrorism or other black ops, and not in a good way. We saw these strange alliances in the Iran/Contra affair also.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. Good reasoning.
  Glad I took the time to read the full piece.

PB
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
12. I always wondered why Trenton, too. Good read.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Wonder if the McGreevey/Cipol scandal had any connection.
Remember McGreevey, who resigned after it came to public
attention that he was gay and involved with a former
Israeli agent that was on a rather high payroll as his lover?
There were accusations that he had compromised security
with Cipol- And of course there is the topic
(forbidden) of the Israeli art/moving students in NJ.
2004, I think it was.

BHN
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. I still have the art I purchased somewhere in my attic.
I should try and find out who I made the check to but it was to someone who I was told was a supervisor.
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
14. The other part - 9/11 happened by surprise - how could the culprit
Edited on Sun Aug-03-08 05:04 AM by file83
have, in the same day, decided to get the anthrax, pick a target, acquire address of said target, leave the facility, travel to New Jersey, and mail the letter.

All the while, he was supposedly motivated by human experiment & a few thousand dollars profit. Why would 9/11 have been his trigger?

We are talking about 9/11 here - no one new what was going on, everyone was glued to the news, the day unfolded in a bizarre way.

The only way someone would have been prepared to do such a convoluted act didn't do it spontaneously. They planned it, which strongly suggests (by shear probability) that whomever sent the letter also knew before hand of the 9/11 plot.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
35. Or the letter could have been post dated.
The postmarks were the 18th?

-Hoot
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bdf Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 05:36 AM
Response to Original message
15. The same modus operandi as 9-11 itself
Cheney ran two military exercises, normally held months apart, on 9-11. One put half the USAF over the border into Canada to deal with a simulated attack by Russia over the north pole. The other simulated what Condi Lies 'R' Us said nobody could conceive of: multiple aircraft hijacks with the hijacked planes used as missiles. The two ensured that there was no timely response to the hijacked aircraft (which gallivanted all over the US for, in one case, over an hour).

Using a military exercise to spread anthrax fits right in.

Which makes me wonder what was supposed to happen in Florida, because on 9-10 James Ellis Bush declared martial law in Florida.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Actually, I think Anthrax was mailed to the Florida address of the Enquirer . . . ???
....but I don't know how that might have coincided with Jeb's "martial law" --

I think it was in the first batch of letters ---
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bdf Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. I doubt it
Martial law declared on the 10th was preparation for something on the 11th.

Maybe that's why Dubya was left to sit in that school and his advisors didn't tell him to get out for his own safety. I'd previously assumed that Cheney and the advisors knew Bush wasn't going to be attacked by terraists because Cheney was running the show. But maybe Cheney had a plan to ascend to the Presidency.

Nah, scratch that thought. I don't think JEB would have gone for that. Or maybe he would. Cheney becomes Pres, names JEB as Veep and then resigns on health grounds. Poopy intended for JEB to get the job in the first place. JEB was a PNAC member, Dubya wasn't. JEB stood for governoor of Florida at the same time as Dubya stood for governor of Texas, but JEB lost and Dubya won. Florida's governor is the head honcho while Texas' governor is a figurehead and the real power is with the lieutenant governor. Dubya was at best a backup plan they hoped to hell they'd never have to use; at worst Poopy put him up for the job to stop him whining about JEB getting breaks he didn't.

Possibly the plan was for a plane to crash near the school—an attack on the pResident that failed through good luck. Or, better still, a plane that is shot down by the USAF just short of its target.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
16. FBI's agent "Spike" spikes another investigation. hmmm most mysterious.
Check out this comment posted to the article in the OP.


It might be interesting for you to look at the comments of Dr. Francis Boyle, a Harvard law prof who tried to bring information about the attacks to the FBI. He says that he initially gave info to a Spike Bowman of the FBI. afterwards, the Ames strain was authorized to be destroyed by the FBI, getting rid of any further info on exactly where the attack strain might have come from. He realized later that this FBI agent was the same one who shut down investigations into Moussoui and would not authorize agents to get a warrant to search his laptop prior to 9/11. Seems agent Bower (sic) might be involved somehow in protecting the plan.

http://www.atlargely.com/2008/08/a-suggestion-to.html


A bit of googling turned up this:


Esteemed Professor and Law Expert Warns Of Police State

snip

Dr Franics A. Boyle literally helped write the law with regards to terrorism, as he was responsible for drafting the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989 that was passed unanimously by both Houses of Congress and signed into law by President Bush Snr.

Professor Boyle teaches international law at the University of Illinois, Champaign. He holds a Doctor of Law Magna Cum Laude as well as a Ph.D. in Political Science, both from Harvard University. He has also served on the Board of Directors of Amnesty International (1988-1992), and represented Bosnia- Herzegovina at the World Court.

snip

Dr Boyle proceeded to call a very high level official in the FBI who deals with terrorism and counter-terrorism, Spike Bowman, whom he had met at a terrorism conference at the University of Michigan Law School.

He told Bowman that the only people that would have the capability to carry out the attacks were people working on US government programs on Anthrax and with access to high level a bio-safety lab. Dr Boyle went through all the names, the contractors and the labs for Anthrax work with the FBI's Bowman.

Bowman then informed Dr Boyle that the FBI was working with Fort Detrick on the matter, to which he responded that Fort Detrick could really be the main problem.

It was documented at the time that the anthrax strain used was military grade. This was widely reported in 2002 in publications such as the New Scientist. "Soon after I had informed Bowman of this information, the FBI authorised the destruction of the AMES cultural Anthrax database." The Professor continued.

The destruction of the anthrax culture collection at Ames, IA., from which the Ft. Detrick lab got its pathogens, was blatant destruction of evidence as it meant that there was no way of finding out which strain was sent to who to develop the larger breed of anthrax used in the attacks. The trail of genetic evidence would have led directly back to a secret but officially-sponsored US government biowarfare program that was illegal and criminal.

snip

At that point Boyle says it became very clear to him that there was a cover up in operation by the FBI. He points out that later on on reading one of David Ray Griffin's books on the 9/11 attacks, he discovered that Agent Bowman was the same FBI agent who sabotaged the FISA warrant for access to Zacarious Moussaoui's computer, which contained information that could have facilitated the prevention of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

http://www.infowars.net/articles/december2006/191206Boyle.htm

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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Hey America, don't you get the feeling
someone is pissing on your face and telling you it's rain?


Mike Maltbie and Rita Flack of the Radical Fundamentalist Unit (RFU) forward a request for a warrant to search Zacarias Moussaoui’s belongings (see August 21, 2001) to National Security Law Unit chief Spike Bowman. The request was submitted by the Minneapolis field office (see August 22-28, 2001), which has been trying to obtain a warrant for some time. Earlier in the day, Maltbie edited the request, removing information connecting Moussaoui to al-Qaeda through a rebel group in Chechnya (see August 28, 2001). RFU chief Dave Frasca was to attend the meeting, but is called away at the last minute. According to Bowman, who is already very familiar with the facts in this case, Maltbie is adamant that there is not enough evidence to issue the warrant. Bowman agrees, saying that the evidence fails to implicate Moussaoui as an agent of a foreign power. The FBI thus abandons the effort to obtain a FISA warrant and begins planning his deportation (see (August 30-September 10, 2001)).

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a082801bowmankillswarrant#a082801bowmankillswarrant


FBI Director Robert Mueller personally awards Marion (Spike) Bowman with a presidential citation and cash bonus of approximately 25 percent of his salary. {Salon, 3/3/2003} Bowman, head of the FBI’s National Security Law Unit and the person who refused to seek a special warrant for a search of Zacarias Moussaoui’s belongings before the 9/11 attacks, is among nine recipients of bureau awards for “exceptional performance.” The award comes shortly after a 9/11 Congressional Inquiry report saying Bowman’s unit gave Minneapolis FBI agents “inexcusably confused and inaccurate information” that was “patently false.” {Star-Tribune (Minneapolis), 12/22/2002} Bowman’s unit also blocked an urgent request by FBI agents to begin searching for Khalid Almihdhar after his name was put on a watch list. In early 2000, the FBI acknowledged serious blunders in surveillance Bowman’s unit conducted during sensitive terrorism and espionage investigations, including agents who illegally videotaped suspects, intercepted e-mails without court permission, and recorded the wrong phone conversations. {Associated Press, 1/10/2003} As Senator Charles Grassley (R-IA) and others have pointed out, not only has no one in government been fired or punished for 9/11, but several others have been promoted:

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a120402promotions#a120402promotions
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. And the FBI is blatantly involved in the first attack on the WTC in '93 . . .
same questions --- same problems -- same coincidences --- heavily involved ---

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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
17. K&R!
Whoever it is had the ability to act in near plain sight, and not fear being stopped and searched. Not many of those folks at that time.

Thank you lala and babylonsistahmia :D :loveya: :yourock:
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
18. i was a resident of central nj at the time, working in manhattan
and there was nothing like the same military presence in central nj as there was in manhattan.

aside from the fact that military people searching bags in manhattan probably would have ignored an ordinary envelope, even if it were inside a baggie or something, central nj simply was not crawling with military personnel. i don't know about trenton in particular, but the whole area is more rural/suburban and people move by car and they didn't stop cars.

so "why trenton" is a good question, but had it been peoria, "why peoria" would have been an equally good question. i don't think there's anything suspicious about trenton other than the fact that it was the source of the mailings.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Right -- we didn't have a heavy level of activity in NJ - Central NJ, at least . . .
things were quite normal --

Aside from the mourning because a lot of NJ folks were in the WTC ---

A lot in my town didn't come home ---
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
19. I've Thought Similar Things...
A couple thoughts/questions of my own that center around those letters.

First, is if there had been some type of handwriting analysis done on those letter vs. Mr. Ivins handwriting...I would hope there'd be some sample publicly available for an independent evaluation.

Next is just as you're citing the timing and location of those letters. I could see him either jumping on I-95 or hopping on the Metroliner (the train stops in Trenton) where he could have done the mailing. But if that's the case, there should be a paper/video trail...purchasing of tickets or filling up at a gas station...and any toll booths (if any...most now are eqipped with cameras).

Then there's the timing...if he worked at a high security facility there must be all sorts of written and video records of his activities there. Was he working on the days these letters were mailed...focusing especially around a couple hours around the postmark time (getting from the mailbox to the local distribution center)...was he working those days?

Unlike you, I could see using a Trenton or some other town along the I-95 or Metroliner corridor as it made for a quick access and getaway...but, again, if he was acting alone, then wouldn't the government be putting out some of this evidence to both prove their case and reassure the public? I get a feeling the only way we'll ever see an answer is a FOIA request.

Lastly, the reason I bring up the Metroliner is that I traveled it not long ago...and the security checks on there are far less intrusive than at the airport. We didn't have our bags checked...and I didn't see any X-ray or scanning equipment in New York's Penn station nor at the 30th street station in Philly...I could easily see someone hoping the train, hopping off at Trenton, turning around and being back in the beltway in a few hours.

Just my .02 (not sure if its American or Canadian this morning)

Thank-you and Cheers...
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Because the handwriting was done in childlike fashion,
I've even had a thought they could have had a child do the actual physical mailing of the letter as a cover. No one would question a child mailing a letter.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. You know . . . I thought it looked very mature, almost artistic . . .
the numbers are near perfect -- I thought it was someone trying to make it look childlike?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Yes, it was done to look that way but was too precise
and obvious to me.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
31. Were any of the 9/18 posmarked letters also from Trenton? Was there only
one 9/11 letter?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Here's some info on that ....
This is from Wikipedia ---

There are a lot of sites with info - I haven't compared any of them --

Overview

Seven letters are believed to have been mailed, resulting in 22 infections; five people died.The anthrax attacks came in two waves. The first set of anthrax letters had a Trenton, New Jersey postmark dated September 18, 2001, exactly one week after the September 11, 2001 attacks. Five letters are believed to have been mailed at this time, to ABC News, CBS News, NBC News and the New York Post, all located in New York City; and to the National Enquirer at American Media, Inc. (AMI) in Boca Raton, Florida.<3> Robert Stevens, the first person who died from the mailings, worked at a tabloid called Sun, also published by AMI. Only the New York Post and NBC News letters were actually found;<4> the existence of the other three letters is inferred because individuals at ABC, CBS and AMI became infected with anthrax. Scientists examining the anthrax from the New York Post letter said it appeared as a coarse brown granular material looking like Purina Dog Chow.<5>

Two more anthrax letters, bearing the same Trenton postmark, were dated October 9, three weeks after the first mailing. The letters were addressed to two Democratic Senators, Tom Daschle of South Dakota and Patrick Leahy of Vermont. At the time Daschle was the Senate Majority leader and Leahy was head of the Senate Judiciary Committee. The Daschle letter was opened by an aide on October 15, and the government mail service was shut down. The unopened Leahy letter was discovered in an impounded mail bag on November 16. The Leahy letter had been misdirected to the State Department mail annex in Sterling, Virginia, due to a misread ZIP code; a postal worker there, David Hose, contracted inhalation anthrax.

More potent than the first anthrax letters, the material in the Senate letters was a highly refined dry powder consisting of about one gram of nearly pure spores. Barbara Hatch Rosenberg, a molecular biologist and research professor at the State University of New York, described the material as "weaponized" or "weapons grade" anthrax during a 2002 interview for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.<6> However, the Washington Post later reported in 2006 that the FBI no longer believes the anthrax was weaponized.

At least 22 people developed anthrax infections, with 11 of the especially life-threatening inhalation variety. Five died of inhalation anthrax: Stevens; two employees of the Brentwood mail facility in Washington, D.C., Thomas Morris Jr. and Joseph Curseen; and two about whom their source of exposure to the bacteria is still unknown: Kathy Nguyen, a Vietnamese immigrant resident in the borough of the Bronx who worked in New York City, and Ottilie Lundgren, a 94-year old widow of a prominent judge from Oxford, Connecticut, who was the last known victim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. ...and notice this . . .
However, the Washington Post later reported in 2006 that the FBI no longer believes the anthrax was weaponized.

From what I'm reading there were only 4 or 5 people in the world supposedly who knew how to
mix the weaponized anthrax. Ivins wasn't one of them.


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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
36. Do we know that the anthrax was stolen from Ft Detrick?
The press has pushed the idea this was a lone wolf operation, but if it wasn't, and the anthrax was stolen from Detrick, I seriously doubt it was put in the letters before traveling to Trenton.

Trenton isn't that bad a drive from Frederick Md. and even shorter if you're meeting someone to hand off a package to someone somewhere in the middle like a rest stop on the Pa. turnpike.

:shrug:

-Hoot
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. There is one report that says they had no means to dry anthrax
at Ft. Detrick -- they were using a liquid. Iirc, it was the WaHo.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
39. it's the cheney fbi...don't hold your breath
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
40. It's a new world. Once, we said that "it's not the crime, it's the cover-up."
Edited on Sun Aug-03-08 10:54 PM by bleever

Now, they've had the latitude to expand the crime beyond getting caught for just covering up.

What was required was to achieve failure this time was to completely bungle the cover-up in exponentially bigger ways, and by god, they might just have done it.


:thumbsup:

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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
41. An Anthrax Timeline:

On September 5, Ms. Clarke--lured back into government service by pal Mary Matalin on Vice President Dick Cheney's staff, from a high-paying post as Manhattan office director for the venerable public relations firm of Hill & Knowlton--the former PR chief to Senator John McCain and one-time George Bush (the elder) staffer would divulge to foreign media that the United States, via the Pentagon and the shadowy Defense Cooperative Threat Reduction Program, would begin producing a new and potent strain of anthrax bacteria, and that such plans had been in the works since 1997. The source of the anthrax was to be from Russian stock, and, according to Ms. Clarke, would be used "purely for defensive measures."

At the popular political site FreeRepublic.com, Victoria Clarke posts as "Torie"--a self-proclaimed "statist neocon." The Pentagon's disinformation campaign was already in motion on September 5, 2001, and Victoria Clarke, then employed as Deputy Director for Public Affairs, was its "go-to girl" on "the anthrax question
."...


After the Oct. 5, 2001, death from anthrax exposure of Sun photo editor Robert Stevens

On October 15, 2001, President Bush said, "There may be some possible link" to Bin Laden, adding, "I wouldn't put it past him." Vice President Cheney also said Bin Laden's henchmen were trained "how to deploy and use these kinds of substances, so you start to piece it all together."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/08/02/2008-08-02_fbi_was_told_to_blame_anthrax_scare_on_a.html

October 17, 2001: Top Bush Administration Officials Look to Blame Anthrax Attacks on Al-Qaeda, Iraq, or Russia
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a101701anthraxblame#a101701anthraxblame

On Oct. 18, 2001, a White House alarm went off indicating that sensors had detected dangerous levels of radioactive, chemical or biological agents. According to Mayer, anyone who had entered the White House situation room, including Cheney, had been exposed...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3395128

October 18, 2001 (days before ABC News first broadcast their bentonite report) John McCain, on the David Letterman Show:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x164521
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
43. Conjecture
I read the entire article and the responses that follow.

The 9-11 letter may have been back-dated to give it more oomph, or it may have been ready on 9-11 and it might've been unwise to send it 'till later.

I think it takes some logistics and planning to execute this crime. Could someone have seen the events of 9-11 and quickly prepared the 9-11 letter on the spot? Possibly, but I don't think so.

Bringing the anthrax into the drill and loading it there seems a little clumsy and inopportune, unless the intention was to release it then, and plans changed. Yes, there's cover, but it's quite a bold move. I can make a mental picture of it happening, but I'm still not sure.

The Ft. Detrick / Trenton / NYC line looks like an excellent avenue of investigation, however. And it's verifiable information. This definitely should be a focus of investigation.

No links, no solid proof, just, as I said, some conjecture.
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
44. k
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